Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > General Music Discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Rap is bigger than The Beatles? A New Study
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedRap is bigger than The Beatles? A New Study
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Icarium View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2015 at 02:03
We all know that Kanye helped an old man, was i McCrathney, Knarthey, McCartney gain a carear in music.
Back to Top
Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2015 at 02:45
It's more that now there's just more different styles of music to choose from than back in the mid-1960s, and nothing's gonna appeal to everyone. Most of the pop music available back then were variations on the same standards, having more in common than now, and the different media infrastructure resulted in there being more uniform taste than today. Especially after the internet arrived into the equation.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
Back to Top
429diablo View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: May 01 2015
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2015 at 19:05
The emergence of hip hop and alternative into the mainstream in the early 90s completely changed the style and landscape of popular music.  Just like the emergence of punk and synthpop in the late 70s, early 80s, and the emergence of psych rock in the 60s.  I believe it's foolish to think one had more impact than the others, especially since the influence from all those eras are still felt to this very day.


And for the record, i dislike the Beatles, and like a decent amount of hip hop music.
Back to Top
Proglydite View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: May 11 2015
Location: CaOreBorderUS
Status: Offline
Points: 8 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2015 at 23:23
For the record, rap or hip hop, seems to have been invented in the 70's by Debbie Harry - "Blondie", "Rapture", was certainly before any "rap", that I know of, any one know of any prior rap? Also,  I would like to put forth an idea about classification, music has many genres. Even our beloved Prog. has many (melodic, symphonic,metal, acid, etc.), still, all music involves musicians, instruments, and much music contains vocals, to produce musical tones by means of the voice. b : to utter words in musical tones and with musical inflections and modulations. according to Merriam Webster. So I say that rap is not and never has been music, it is a type of poetry! Most rap has no musicians playing any music, no instruments, (short of electronic equipment), and they don't really sing. Let's call it what it is, urban poetry, often accompanied by clips of recorded music or other sounds. and as far as a "black cultural icon", unfortunately Debbie Harry is terribly white.
 By the way, How can you not like the Beatles?
ETIDYLGORPAMAI
Back to Top
Proglydite View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: May 11 2015
Location: CaOreBorderUS
Status: Offline
Points: 8 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2015 at 23:38
Lets compare an entire genre to one band! duh! maybe General Motors has built more cars than a Ford built Pinto's. That is real fair of a comparison, why is it I wonder, that in an age were you graduate college or not even be considered for anything other than "blue collar" labor. Back when skills could get you ANY job, the vast majority of work done, items produced, fact or fiction written, was of a considerable higher quality? Journalism is losing its.. well everything, they only hire college grads now though. I miss the writing of the old hard core uneducated alchoholic journalists that told what for! and would not compare a group to a population. Lets not forget to ask, did they even take population into account as one four man band must compete against an entire genre!
I already posted my reasoning on the next page of this post, BUT, I again put forward the idea that Rap is NOT music! If you find fault in my reasoning, please explain! 
ETIDYLGORPAMAI
Back to Top
LearsFool View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 8618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2015 at 23:59
Originally posted by Proglydite Proglydite wrote:

For the record, rap or hip hop, seems to have been invented in the 70's by Debbie Harry - "Blondie", "Rapture", was certainly before any "rap", that I know of, any one know of any prior rap? Also,  I would like to put forth an idea about classification, music has many genres. Even our beloved Prog. has many (melodic, symphonic,metal, acid, etc.), still, all music involves musicians, instruments, and much music contains vocals, to produce musical tones by means of the voice. b : to utter words in musical tones and with musical inflections and modulations. according to Merriam Webster. So I say that rap is not and never has been music, it is a type of poetry! Most rap has no musicians playing any music, no instruments, (short of electronic equipment), and they don't really sing. Let's call it what it is, urban poetry, often accompanied by clips of recorded music or other sounds. and as far as a "black cultural icon", unfortunately Debbie Harry is terribly white.
 By the way, How can you not like the Beatles?

Debbie Harry did not invent rap/hip hop. She borrowed it from some Brooklyn DJs, producers, and slam poets who combined funk and dub in '74 into something new and unique and ran with it. "Rapture" was from '81, while in '79 the world saw "King Tim III" and "Rapper's Delight", the first rap singles, the latter doing exceptionally well on several charts around the Anglophone countries. 
Back to Top
A Person View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 00:20
Originally posted by Proglydite Proglydite wrote:

I again put forward the idea that Rap is NOT music!

I can't imagine how that could be true, but I don't really want to argue the point.
Back to Top
Failcore View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 00:25
OMG a band that is 4 generations old and hasn't produced any music in 55 years isn't bigger than a modern genre!!! Quick, lets all panic! Blow the great horn and summon the whitebeards of prog, for the end is surely nigh!


Edited by Failcore - May 12 2015 at 00:25
Back to Top
Angelo View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 00:54
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm A common problem in Amsterdam so I hear.

Don't know, I don't go there a lot. I only read the article...
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Back to Top
Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 03:07
I thought general consensus was that the groundwork for hip-hop was laid down by the late Gil Scott Heron.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12695 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 08:07
Originally posted by Failcore Failcore wrote:

OMG a band that is 4 generations old and hasn't produced any music in 55 years isn't bigger than a modern genre!!! Quick, lets all panic! Blow the great horn and summon the whitebeards of prog, for the end is surely nigh!
I don't believe anyone's panicking. The research is simply flawed in this study. What's funny about the whole thing is that a repackaged/reedited/remastered/remixed set of Beatles' songs could be released tomorrow in a shiny new box set and it would sell a million copies. How many rappers are going to sell millions of albums 45 years after they've retired?
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
sublime220 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 21 2015
Location: Willow Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 1563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 10:40
Originally posted by Proglydite Proglydite wrote:

Lets compare an entire genre to one band! duh! maybe General Motors has built more cars than a Ford built Pinto's. That is real fair of a comparison, why is it I wonder, that in an age were you graduate college or not even be considered for anything other than "blue collar" labor. Back when skills could get you ANY job, the vast majority of work done, items produced, fact or fiction written, was of a considerable higher quality? Journalism is losing its.. well everything, they only hire college grads now though. I miss the writing of the old hard core uneducated alchoholic journalists that told what for! and would not compare a group to a population. Lets not forget to ask, did they even take population into account as one four man band must compete against an entire genre!
I already posted my reasoning on the next page of this post, BUT, I again put forward the idea that Rap is NOT music! If you find fault in my reasoning, please explain! 
If rap is not a genre of music, then what is it? I love Godspeed, but it's easy to see how people can think that they are not really music, just a long droning noise for twenty minutes. But even though you may dislike that type of music, doesn't mean that it isn't.
There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
Back to Top
The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
Status: Offline
Points: 4591 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 12:23
Originally posted by Proglydite Proglydite wrote:

Let's call it what it is, urban poetry, often accompanied by clips of recorded music or other sounds.

I'd go along with that definition.  Music?  No.  Urban poetry?  Yes.


Edited by The.Crimson.King - May 12 2015 at 12:24
Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 12:38
I don't pay too much attention to 'studies' I suspect most are skewed in some way to elcit the conclusion and outcome the study group wish to achieve..
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Smurph View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2015 at 13:06
mu·sic
ˈmyo͞ozik/Submit
noun
1.
vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
"couples were dancing to the music"
the art or science of composing or performing music.
noun: music
"he devoted his life to music"
a sound perceived as pleasingly harmonious.
"the background music of softly lapping water"
2.
the written or printed signs representing vocal or instrumental sound.
"Tony learned to read music"

"produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion."
(There are some groups that try to do the OPPOSITE of this and we still can consider it music.)


Sorry guys but rap is music. Even if you hate it. It can be perceived as pleasingly harmonious to a number of people. And honestly there's prog that some would call not music. In fact, I was just reading the other day an argument between two individuals trying to determine if Horrorscension, the newer Behold the Arctopus album, was music... but no matter what they say it is music.

In fact, if more than a couple of people can consider it music, it basically makes it music according to the second part of that definition.

Also, if we are talking about radio rap and 99% of the rap you have probably heard, it pretty much does suck and I wouldn't give it more than 30 seconds. But if you are trying to tell me that Busdriver, Del the Funky Homosapien (Deltron 3030), El-Producto, Death Grips, etc etc. is not at least music produced by people with talent, then I would have to say you are probably mistaken.


Also, I don't really like hip-hop much besides a few very specific artists, but I would say that rap has probably been more influential than the Beatles because rap is something that has taken over pop more recently. For better or worse, it is easier to produce than most other forms of music. (Still waiting on tightly composed hip-hop. Someone will get there.)

But from my perception, music until the 1940's and 1950s was generally difficult to play. You could not get by doing extremely simple things. Even pop songs were well-composed and if it wasn't an entirely vocal song, someone ended up doing some sort of crazy solo or there were mutating keys and consistently changing parts.

But as time went on, pop music continued to get more and more simple. And with rap music, it has reached its simple peak. This means that the creation of the music has become more and more accessible to people without talent or vision... meaning that ANYONE can become a rapper. Just listen to a bunch of rap, spit like they do, download a bunch of beats, write your own rhymes, even using the same rhythmic strucutres if you want, and boom. You're a rapper. (I'll make the distinction that this does not mean you are a hip-hop artist though.)

Rap has also influenced modern pop more than pop influences modern pop. Pretty much all pop music uses bullsh*t rap hooks anymore. It's awful.

They are also comparing a genre to a band. Rap is going to be more influential than the Beatles because there are MANY more artists in pop rock to influence music. But ALL rap is definitely directly influenced by rap because that is the dumbest true statement.

TL;DR

Number of rap artists > number of bands
One genre is more influential than one band.
Rap is still music even if you f**king hate it.
This study that they did is SUPER DUMB.
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



wtf
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.236 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.