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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 09:48
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

--

It is and it isn't.   Did Jackson Pollock sell a lot of paintings, and did he make a lot of money from those sales?   Was Pollock a pop artist or was he experimental?   And before that when no one cared about a crazy guy who dribbled old paint on to old canvas let alone his atrocious work only later to spontaneously decide he was a brilliant artist with an important new voice, would anyone other than his close circle even notice or give a rat's ass?  

It was Pollock's success, timing and connections that made him what he was to the extent that we know about him.   We also know that even though anyone can splash paint around and call it great art, he did it in a way and at a time that made it somehow important.   And thank goodness he did make it big because otherwise we wouldn't benefit from his astounding breakthroughs.


Great Example and I like it. I agree with you 100% about Pollock (Each time I hear Pollock name, I remind Ed Harris face!). You right BUT how many Pollock you can count? These kind of Artists are RARE but I understand your mean copletely. As you said "It is and It isn't". IMO sales or Marketing isn't a "GREAT" mesure for arts but it can be ONE of many.
Now I want talk to you Atavachron. IMO You are a Gentleman. I made a big mistake  (one of my mistakes!)in my post about professors and Normal people. I must change their position in that sentence. You didn't use that in your reply. I had another mistakes too but you focus to concept of discussion. Thanks for your time and I'm really Aprecciate
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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 10:06
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I must admit I never understood threads where the op asks to be 'persuaded' or 'convinced'. Doesn't compute when we're talking about music or anything other that is fuelled by our emotions. You really can't get anymore subjective. Your perception of music may change over time, but that is because you change. People may persuade all they want but you are still alone with your brain and two ears. The music remains the same.
I 100% agree with this part of your post but I can't agree completely with "Perception of music". In one P.O.V it is right but direction of this perception is important in this thread. I don't think one KC huge fan change his/her perception to Maddona music IMO. Perhaps you go to a party and you want to dance or you travel with your friends or... Yes in these times you may like to listen POP music. We talk about Concept of music not music in general definition. I try to explain my opinion clearly but I can't find good words!!
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 10:22
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I must admit I never understood threads where the op asks to be 'persuaded' or 'convinced'. Doesn't compute when we're talking about music or anything other that is fuelled by our emotions. You really can't get anymore subjective. Your perception of music may change over time, but that is because you change. People may persuade all they want but you are still alone with your brain and two ears. The music remains the same.
I 100% agree with this part of your post but I can't agree completely with "Perception of music". In one P.O.V it is right but direction of this perception is important in this thread. I don't think one KC huge fan change his/her perception to Maddona music IMO. Perhaps you go to a party and you want to dance or you travel with your friends or... Yes in these times you may like to listen POP music. We talk about Concept of music not music in general definition. I try to explain my opinion clearly but I can't find good words!!
I think there is some level of "learning to appreciate" involved any form of music that can be seen as objective. For example you may not like a piece of music (i.e. subjective appreciation) but you can recognise it as a good piece music, or a well played piece of music or a well written piece of music (i.e. objective appreciation). Your perception of that piece of music can be changed through learning more about it, or by understanding the ideas and/or concepts associated with it, but this may not changing whether you like it or not.
What?
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 10:52
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I must admit I never understood threads where the op asks to be 'persuaded' or 'convinced'. Doesn't compute when we're talking about music or anything other that is fuelled by our emotions. You really can't get anymore subjective. Your perception of music may change over time, but that is because you change. People may persuade all they want but you are still alone with your brain and two ears. The music remains the same.
I 100% agree with this part of your post but I can't agree completely with "Perception of music". In one P.O.V it is right but direction of this perception is important in this thread. I don't think one KC huge fan change his/her perception to Maddona music IMO. Perhaps you go to a party and you want to dance or you travel with your friends or... Yes in these times you may like to listen POP music. We talk about Concept of music not music in general definition. I try to explain my opinion clearly but I can't find good words!!
I think there is some level of "learning to appreciate" involved any form of music that can be seen as objective. For example you may not like a piece of music (i.e. subjective appreciation) but you can recognise it as a good piece music, or a well played piece of music or a well written piece of music (i.e. objective appreciation). Your perception of that piece of music can be changed through learning more about it, or by understanding the ideas and/or concepts associated with it, but this may not changing whether you like it or not.

I should probably have mentioned something along those lines in my earlier post. I certainly agree with Dean. I too think you can learn to appreciate (some) music better, but it is still with you yourself that the change starts. You have to be willing to give it another shot or indeed a different shot. 

 
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 11:23
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

 
I think there is some level of "learning to appreciate" involved any form of music that can be seen as objective. For example you may not like a piece of music (i.e. subjective appreciation) but you can recognise it as a good piece music, or a well played piece of music or a well written piece of music (i.e. objective appreciation). Your perception of that piece of music can be changed through learning more about it, or by understanding the ideas and/or concepts associated with it, but this may not changing whether you like it or not.
THANK YOU Dean. I tried to say this. As I said before in this Thread music (like another Arts) have 2 faces (general categorize) Objective and Subjective. Your reply is complete (IMO) for this section of discussion and I can not add anything to it. Thumbs Up
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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 11:35
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

 
I think there is some level of "learning to appreciate" involved any form of music that can be seen as objective. For example you may not like a piece of music (i.e. subjective appreciation) but you can recognise it as a good piece music, or a well played piece of music or a well written piece of music (i.e. objective appreciation). Your perception of that piece of music can be changed through learning more about it, or by understanding the ideas and/or concepts associated with it, but this may not changing whether you like it or not.

I should probably have mentioned something along those lines in my earlier post. I certainly agree with Dean. I too think you can learn to appreciate (some) music better, but it is still with you yourself that the change starts. You have to be willing to give it another shot or indeed a different shot. 

 
YEP.I agree. What ca I say? You right. 
I stand in my opinion about Marketing and sales. IMO Marketing CAN'T be a measure for music or another arts. Marketing just CAN show (if it can do this!) peoples SUBJECTIVE opinions or tastes. You can't analysis music by focus on sale or marketing IMO.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 11:54
Both amazing bands in their own way. Hard to compare but for me KC has a very slight edge over Floyd.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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aliano View Drop Down
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Points: 264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 12:09
I can never say PF is better than KC, but I can say I enjoy PF more than KC and that's because I prefer the mellow melodic spacey side of prog to the harder and metal side.By the way I like many KC songs like Epitaph(one of my all time favourites),The Night Watch,Starless,Fallen Angel,Exiles and...The ones that are more melodic and moody.
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Points: 20468 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 13:29
Originally posted by aliano aliano wrote:

I can never say PF is better than KC, but I can say I enjoy PF more than KC and that's because I prefer the mellow melodic spacey side of prog to the harder and metal side.By the way I like many KC songs like Epitaph(one of my all time favourites),The Night Watch,Starless,Fallen Angel,Exiles and...The ones that are more melodic and moody.

And this is why I like KC better,  because their epic melodic numbers are better to me and more intense  than Floyd's epic ones.
I find myself not playing Floyd very often these days....they seem a bit too mellow and boring at times. Maybe I have just heard some of their 'hits' too often and I'm burned out.
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Follix View Drop Down
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Points: 130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2015 at 15:59
I wouldn't know how to convince you... I am a big Pink Floyd fan (Meddle to The Wall + Division Bell) while the only thing I like about King Crimson is ITCOTCK...

I guess I prefer melodies and depth of the sound over virtuosity and originality.
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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2015 at 05:47
Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

I wouldn't know how to convince you... I am a big Pink Floyd fan (Meddle to The Wall + Division Bell) while the only thing I like about King Crimson is ITCOTCK...

I guess I prefer melodies and depth of the sound over virtuosity and originality.
Hi. Don't worry . No one can convince anybody !
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