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Let's create a new term for non-epic Long Songs
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I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
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Points: 5000 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2023 at 10:33
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Having some experience with subject analysis in library metadata, it's normally best to use a term that most people would use for a subject. So, the term for a long song would be long song. In a subject hierarchy, an epic song would be a narrower term (or a subclass) of a long song.

Sorry for being a poophead, but from a communications standpoint, it makes more sense to use a term most people will understand, in and out of prog music.
 
I agree. However, one could argue that "epic" is a subjective notion. That is, although a song being 20 minutes long is an objective fact, whether or not that song is an epic is a matter of opinion. But it is my opinion that being an epic is about more than just its length. For example, I have used "Meurglys III (The Songwriters Guild)" as an example of a long song that lacks an epic quality, in contrast to "A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers" which I regard as the epic of epics.
 
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Points: 53656 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2023 at 07:23
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Having some experience with subject analysis in library metadata, it's normally best to use a term that most people would use for a subject. So, the term for a long song would be long song. In a subject hierarchy, an epic song would be a narrower term (or a subclass) of a long song.

Sorry for being a poophead, but from a communications standpoint, it makes more sense to use a term most people will understand, in and out of prog music.
 
I agree. However, one could argue that "epic" is a subjective notion. That is, although a song being 20 minutes long is an objective fact, whether or not that song is an epic is a matter of opinion. But it is my opinion that being an epic is about more than just its length. For example, I have used "Meurglys III (The Songwriters Guild)" as an example of a long song that lacks an epic quality, in contrast to "A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers" which I regard as the epic of epics.
 


That's a fair point and I agree with you. One of the nice things about subject thesauri is the hierarchical structure doesn't have to be a rigid tree-shape, but can be much more complicated like a graph or network of nodes. I only gave a simplified connection between long song and epic song. Ideally, in a more complicated structure you would want to connect epic song with epic, with song (not all epic songs are long songs), with long song, and maybe some other terms that we haven't even considered, like maybe broader music genres that feature epic songs, etc.
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David64T View Drop Down
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Points: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David64T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2023 at 05:27
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Like many people, I struggle with the use of the term "epic" to blanket cover long songs that do not express the poetic, mythological/legend elements of conflict and resolution--like all those 20-to-45 minute instrumentals in Berlin School/Progressive Electronic, Krautrock, Space/Psychedelic/Stoner/Jam Band albums & shows. To me an epic should be theatric, a rollercoaster ride, and really should include lyrics to "tell a story" along with the music (though many symphonically-minded instrumental songs truly express the rollercoaster ride of human saga--"The Fall of The House of Usher" by APP, Camel's "The Snow Goose", Focus' "Eruption", and are a few that come to mind--and which I would still include in the category "prog epic").

So, creative people that we are, let's try to come up with a term to describe these "non-epic" long prog songs--a term that we can pretty much all accept and then start to use in our discussions and categorizing polls/lists.

For example:

"Brob Songs" or "BS" (for Brobdingnagian)
or "a Rambler" or "Lothlórien"  
or "Autobahn [-en]" or "autoB" or "AB", "ATB", or "ABN"
or "Yatra" a pilgrimage or long journey/trip with wishful intent
a CTS or MTS ("chronological time suck" or "musical time suck")
a TA or "temporal anomaly" (anomalia temporalibus = "AT"); or a temporal disruption (TD "temporalibus discidium, "Temp-Disc")
a "wormhole" (WH) or "portkey" (PK) or 
a "sonic- " or "auditory road"

I don't think "long-playing" or "LP" says enough as these terms are also used to describe albums (45, EP, LP, CD, etc.)

I know I've been far too cerebral in my examples, so I'll just back down and let you generate your own terms (silly, serious, and or otherwise).


I am reluctant to be derogatory, but can't restrain myself... "fatberg" may even be appropriate in some circumstances?
LOL

Attempting a more conventional linguistic derivation, how about..."Hogweed"?
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Points: 2741 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archisorcerus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2023 at 07:01
Epicling.
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