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Where to start (keyboard)?

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Gnik Nosmirc View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 01 2024 at 14:58
Hi.

I'm 25. Never played an instrument. I don't know anything about theory. And I want to learn the piano, to play prog rock of course. My inspirations are Soft Machine (early), Caravan, Vdgg and ELP. The first Soft Machine album is a great example of what I'd like to play.

I'll probably start learning the basics of music theory and a few crappy songs to get my head around how the instrument works. But once I understand the basics, where should I go? Jazz? Blues?

Also, do you have any advice for what gear I should buy? Something not too expensive (I'm short on money), something with which I could play with headphones (I have neighbors and I want to play at 3AM), something I can easily carry.

Sorry for sounding like a complete noob (because I am). Hope I didn't ask anything stupid.

Thanks for reading.


Edited by Gnik Nosmirc - April 01 2024 at 15:02
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2024 at 15:58
I make my living teaching piano. Get a good basic beginner book for adults such as the one by Alfreds. Start working with the book and over time you will start being able to branch out and do the things you really want to do.
Learning an instrument is hard work and some of the work is boring and tedious, if you can't handle that then I wouldn't bother.
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Gnik Nosmirc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gnik Nosmirc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2024 at 07:41
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


Learning an instrument is hard work and some of the work is boring and tedious, if you can't handle that then I wouldn't bother.


I can handle that, if it gets me where I want to go.
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JD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2024 at 12:14
And HOURS...you gotta put in the hours. Ant instrument that needs to be learned (ie: not derived from natural ability) needs repetition. Muscle memory.

Remember he old joke?
How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
Practice, practice, practice.

Somewhere there is a study that says if you want to be proficient at something (anything?) you need something like 10,000 hrs put into it.

Try not to get frustrated with your progress if you're not playing like Keith Emerson after a year. That's not really how it works.
Good luck !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2024 at 12:42
Hi,

Get a reasonable midi keyboard ... they are getting cheaper these days and the 48 key ones are not spendy ... from there you plug it into the computer then you go looking for VST's for piano ... and many of them are free, and voila ... you have a piano available to you.

They say that practice makes perfect, and then you find many a musician, that is an individualist and disdains any kind of teaching ... and it goes as far as folks like Keith Jarrett trashing education for not teaching you anything except what is dead and wasted after so many years of repetitions!

To me, and I am a writer, the "muscle memory" is only necessary when you are mechanical in your playing. If you are a person that plays off colors and visionary material, it only has to do with your familiarity with what each note sounds like, and you would never worry about any teaching or chords and a teacher that is not an artist ... he/she is a musician ... massive difference.

If you have a good FEEL for the notes on the keys, musical theory won't enter the equation ... because you are following your own feel for what the notes speak to you personally, which has nothing to do with theory at all ... and you better realize that before you take it up ... because that is the first brick in your head ... you want to play something you can't find ... ditch it ... instead visualize a scene and put your fingers around the keys for it ... 

For a weird/bizarre idea, if you read well check out the folks that are really special in their creativity, and notice how they are not into the chords and notes ... they are into the quality of their feeling via this note and then that note .. has nothing to do with theory whatsoever. And the best joke of all is the one that musicians hate the most ... in the Robert Wyatt book there is a story about Syd Barrett in one of the sessions for his album ... and a guitarist asks Robert what key Syd is in. Robert's reply? "He don't know the chords or the notes. He just plays!" ... a perfect example of the memory of "knowing" what it sounds like when you do this, or that ... and that's what you need to create "music" ... the rest is all notes!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2024 at 13:12
Re the instrument: Keyboards are pretty cheap these days and are quite good. A 61 key keyboard will last you a long time and should be available new for around $150.
88 key digital pianos are just like the real thing and sound great, they can run up to around $700.
Keyboards do not have touch sensitive heavy keys, but a digital piano does. There are some hybrids that are kind of in between a keyboard and a digital piano.

Edited by Easy Money - April 02 2024 at 14:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2024 at 13:46
I have a Casio digital piano (about 700 dollars) and some other keyboard. Portability is nice. I wanted one with 88 keys and they keys are weighted to start.

I would like to get a Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid or some other digital "hybrid" piano for my son.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2024 at 18:48
I'm very impatient but I'm learning slowly with Alfreds books also (as easy money said).   I spend more time just practicing my ability to find a note I want immediately and just jamming along to stuff.  Armchair Musician here. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2024 at 07:27
Originally posted by Valdez1 Valdez1 wrote:

I'm very impatient but I'm learning slowly with Alfreds books also (as easy money said).   I spend more time just practicing my ability to find a note I want immediately and just jamming along to stuff.  Armchair Musician here. 

Hi,

I would like to add a wee touch here ... for fun and something different, that will help in the end.

If you spend an hour on the Alfred books, and they are very good, do yourself a favor ... put away the book for an hour and just explore each key on the piano, and FEEL it, and even ADD a color to it (as Hiromi will tell you!) ... and study that "sound" a bit ... eventually, it teaches you to blend various sounds and keys on their own without a book, and you learn some intuitive bits ... for example, you like this particular touch and sound, and like to follow it up with this and that ... without worrying about the notes ... only to find that tomorrow, you can duplicate that almost the same, which tells you that you remembered the sound that you felt.

I think it is fine to put a "name" on it ... note this or that or chord this or that ... although I find it more beneficial to me, as a writer though, not to have any idea what it is, or what it was "supposed to be" (the worst thing about music!!!) ... thus making more freedom as to where you take it next as opposed to being tied to a chord this or that.

The history of music is about the "freedom" that folks found off what was next to them, and the 20th century broke the mold on that idea to pieces ... and the only thing that bothers me is that we're still stuck on "learning" something that is too old, and is what is being "retired" from the annals of music as everything ends up digital.

The value of this "freedom" is something that is hard to explain, and is something that most musicians are afraid to try ... because it takes them out of their comfy knowledge of three chords and 2 more notes on their guitar or on the counting by the drummer, who has no feel for the music at all since the drumming never changes!

Good luck ... I've done really well in theater with actors, working with "nothing" as well as I have with writing ... but musicians, for the most part, are afraid ... to consider anything but what they know. 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Gnik Nosmirc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gnik Nosmirc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2024 at 08:33
Thank you all for your answers. I have carefully read them and they will hopefully help me in the future, as I start playing the keyboard.


Edited by Gnik Nosmirc - April 04 2024 at 08:34
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octopus-4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2024 at 06:57
I started playing guitar in 1972, initially practicing at least 4 hours/day. 52 years later I'm still unable to perform Al Di Meola's Mediterranean Sundance, despite many attempts. Nowadays I enjoy keyboard, piano, bass and flute, but none of them well enough to let me say that I'm a musician. 
My suggestion: Even if it doesn't take you where you want, it can be an amazing journey. I'll never be able to play Emerson on piano, but I still enjoy pressing black and white keys to get some chords. 
If you enjoy it, don't care about anything else. Just enjoy it.
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2024 at 07:13
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I started playing guitar in 1972, initially practicing at least 4 hours/day. 52 years later I'm still unable to perform Al Di Meola's Mediterranean Sundance, despite many attempts. Nowadays I enjoy keyboard, piano, bass and flute, but none of them well enough to let me say that I'm a musician. 
...

HI,

Time out ... 

Who says you can not create the Octopus-4 Mediterranean Sundance on the roof with the Riviera Sun?

Comparisons, are tough, and they kinda hurt your seeing where to take your own intuition, which seems to think that others got right and you can't.

Your intuition is the "creator" and the Emerson, and the Di Meola, are NOT because of what they did ... it's a tough thing to recreate the past, and one of the worst teaching tools about any instrument ... all teachers can tell you this and that and this and that ... but none of them can even consider asking, or helping you find your own "note" ... that's sick ... it's like you are doomed to be inferior, regardless.  Everyone else has the "note" and "song" and you won't? What kind of positive lesson is that for a student?

Go listen to Keith Jarrett talk about teachers ... and many musicians that went their own way when they were young, and many are worth the story .. Eno, Wyatt, Hammill, Vander, Emerson (you gotta hear his stuff played on piano first by Rachel Flowers!!!) and many other "originals" that made a serious difference.


Edited by moshkito - April 05 2024 at 07:16
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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