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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: August 07 2004 at 16:58 |
Ivan, I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry..... OK?
"Nobody except people who have a different native language can understand how difficult is for us to write a coherent review in English, most of us think in our native language and have to translate the ideas to English finding that there are not adequate words to express what we thought in our languages."
I really do know what you mean here Ivan. Though English, I have lived and worked in Holland for the last 14 years, speaking and writing Dutch all day long. It's not easy, I know. Even though I am fluent to the point that native Dutch speakers are surprised to find I am actually English, as soon as I start writing something I start questioning my grammar. I can and do think, dream, and even spontaneously swear in Dutch, but it remains my second language.
I once saw a news item on the BBC in which an English mother was reported to have removed her children from their predominantly asian school, as her 5 yr old daughter had returned home singing a Punjabi play ground song.
"I don't send my kids to school to learn bloody foriegn languages!" she was quoted as saying.
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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NyghtOwl
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 21
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Posted: August 07 2004 at 17:19 |
hmmmm....a prog album more than perhaps any other? me not tink so (IMHO of course)
If one needs an *undeniably prog* album, there can really be no other than TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS.
DSOTM is an excellent, ground-breaking album... but if you really split
the badger up into its constituent parts you are actually left with an
album which is decidely *un-prog*.... Wish you were here.... is much,
much MUCH more proggy. THE WALL... is definitely MORE MUCH MORE proggy.
DSOTM flows...but is not (IMHO) a true concept/prog album for it can be
split into its consecutive parts and still *stand*. It is however
one of my fave albums...from time to time (-.o).
Animals...is more proggy than DSOTM...
People rave about DSOTM as if it was their greatest moment...cos it
found its way in one form aor another onto public-house jukeboxes...
well, sorry to burst the *non-floyd-fan's* bubble but it was by a *long
shot* NOT their greatest moment.
Awesome....yes it is
Profound... yes it is
Infinitely listenable... yes it is
Their best? and their most *prog*?
No way sparky
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Life is a beach...
How come I'm not on it?
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: August 07 2004 at 17:53 |
I never said it was their best, only that its 5 star status is irrefutable. Animals is my favourite Floyd album, but it was DSOTM that blew my 12 yr old brain. It may not be as prog as some of its successors, iyo, but it is far more important in an historical sense.
TFTO is one of my favourite albums of all time. As a teenager, when things were black and white, I counted it the best album of all time bar none. But what has that to do with DSOTM's proggyness. Why is it less prog? it has all the ingredients, irregular time signatures, a very definate "concept", deceptively complex chords, subtly used as to sound as natural as can be, just so prog. Prog is not all ELP and Genesis, and DSOTM falls well WELL within the bounderies. imo.
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: August 07 2004 at 20:39 |
I too have real problems listening to any Floyd (and I've tried) after Meddle, and most certainly I just can't abide DSOTM, (I
bought the CD version because somebody at the time said it was great
for check out the hifi!!!). I've asked myself why the album is so
popular? Perhaps its popularity is one reason (but why follow the
sheep...), but this tied to being so radio-friendly, so being
played to death, (ditto Sgt Pepper).
For instance, that cash-register thing seemed to preface most radio
programmes on finance for decade or more - that sound is now guaranteed
to have me turning off that programme. And Roger Waters never helped. But too I grew up when there were two British psychedelic bands to listen to and hear something new: The Soft Machine and The Pink Floyd. Floyd provided the sounds to relax and float down stream; Soft Machine were merging allsorts of music and were restless. Simply for me The Soft Machine evolved much quicker and provided a greater mental challenge. Floyd stayed put for too long providing the continuous soundtrack for the Brit Hippies, who had tuned in and dropped out. Floyd never got back in.
As for sales statistic: so what? How many of you confess to having Peter Frampton's Comes Alive (is it still the best selling double album?), or Fleetwood Mac's Rumours or whatever Michael Jackson album allowed him to purchase menagerie of chimps and kids?
And when somebody cares to spend time and effort writing a review,
pleases ladies and gentlemen don't insult that person. In this part of
the democratic world, we have the right to have freedom of
expression, even if others disagree. If you want to show what that
person writes and thinks is possibly wrong, then demonstrate your
English skills in providing a reasoned critique. However, based on what
I've read above so far, and to paraphrase BTO - 'I aint seen nothing
yet'.
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: August 07 2004 at 20:49 |
No matter how you personally feel about it, DSOTM is undeniably on the top- if not at the top- of the progressive rock 'flagship' albums. It represents prog the same way "Sgt. Pepper" represents psychedelia (although it wasn't very trippy compared to what was going on in music at the time), or "Never Mind the Bollocks" represents punk (even though there were many punk albums that did it better), or "Nevermind" represents grunge (despite the fact that it was less 'gungy' than many other bands, and even less than Nirvana's previous releases). Sometimes the 'most' progressive band isn't the 'best' prog band, or the most influential prog band, or your favorite prog band...if the purpose of this site is to give useful information and impressions to newcomers to the genre or a specific band, it's important to weigh all of these considerations.
I'm a little surprised that there's much of a controversy over DSOTM- anyone can see how important it's been, even if the music does absolutely nothing for you. On the other hand, if someone wanted to take exception to my review for "Pawn Hearts", I'd love to take part in that discussion. Even I think I was unfairly critical, but nobody created a forum thread to yell at me and make fun of my english skills 
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: August 08 2004 at 12:34 |
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhh hhhhhhh!
That's it now loike, Oi aye plaayin no mooa. Yowm orl pickin on me aye ya? Oi've sed oi'm sorry aye oi? Wot mooa d'yow lot wont, cowin blud or summat? Oi doh moind pickin mi waay fru ard ta reed stuf loike, but mek it wuffwhoile. If yow aye got nowt t'back yower comments up wiv, doh bovver Oi say.
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: August 08 2004 at 12:44 |
Love DSOTM.. it deserves a 5... love any Floyd album with the exception of The Final Cut.. but then I like that better than most stuff today... Regardless of what you think of DSOTM.. the concept was brilliant... its universal... it relates to millions evidently still .. and it has incredible longevity... and it will support the Floyd members for life most likely...
Plus its a great album to have sex by...if you could just skip over "Money"
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THIS IS ELP
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Arbiter
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 24 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 63
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Posted: August 08 2004 at 14:16 |
emdiar wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhh hhhhhhh! That's it now loike, Oi aye plaayin no mooa. Yowm orl pickin on me aye ya? Oi've sed oi'm sorry aye oi? Wot mooa d'yow lot wont, cowin blud or summat? Oi doh moind pickin mi waay fru ard ta reed stuf loike, but mek it wuffwhoile. If yow aye got nowt t'back yower comments up wiv, doh bovver Oi say. |
Em's right...let's lay off, he's atoned for his sin (which, in truth, was very small in the first place and was very quickly & sincerely retracted).
Take heart em. You started a good thread...whatever you do, don't stop contributing, your posts are always worthwhile!
"Never 'for the sake of peace and quiet' deny your own experience or convictions"
- Dag Hammarskjöld
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"Some things have to be believed to be seen."
-Ralph Hodgson
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: August 08 2004 at 15:38 |
emdiar wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhh hhhhhhh!
That's it now loike, Oi aye plaayin no mooa. Yowm orl pickin on me aye ya? Oi've sed oi'm sorry aye oi? Wot mooa d'yow lot wont, cowin blud or summat? Oi doh moind pickin mi waay fru ard ta reed stuf loike, but mek it wuffwhoile. If yow aye got nowt t'back yower comments up wiv, doh bovver Oi say.
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I'm so glad someone finally transcribed "Several Species of Small Furry Animals" 
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: August 09 2004 at 06:46 |
It's like this folks; now and then this forum gets a bit pedestrian, dull and devoid of grit, not often, but it happens. I just wanted to be a bit provocative, that's all. If you guys are happy discussing such controversial subjects as "how pretty is pretty boy Greg Lake's pretty baby face," and the like, then pray continue, and I'll nip off for a snooze!
Pigeons cry out to have cats put amongst them, in my world.
(Threefates, .)
Edited by emdiar
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: August 09 2004 at 06:49 |
threefates wrote:
it will support the Floyd members for life most likely...
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It could support a medium sized country for life!
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: August 09 2004 at 11:57 |
emdiar wrote:
If you guys are happy discussing such controversial subjects as "how pretty is pretty boy Greg Lake's pretty baby face," and the like, then pray continue, and I'll nip off for a snooze!
(Threefates, .)
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Yes please... lets discuss more!!!!!
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THIS IS ELP
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: August 09 2004 at 20:14 |
Nobody owning up to purchasing Peter Frampton's Comes Alive - must have sold going on 30 million copies???????????????? 
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: August 09 2004 at 21:47 |
Yeh, but it was bought by 30 million young teen girls who have grown up now and given that album to the Salvation Army... and can you blame them... what happened to Peter Frampton??!!!

BTW... I downloaded "I'm In You" recently... even I like that song...
Edited by threefates
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THIS IS ELP
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: August 10 2004 at 21:09 |
i think everyone is entitled to their opinion but i think dark side deserves 5 stars anyway just for the influencial impact it had on music and for being the bestselling british album ever made, staying in the top 200 for 14 years in a row.
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The Worthless Recluse
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: August 11 2004 at 05:13 |
I've caught flack for some of my reviews in the past. Hey, the guy is entitled to his opinion.
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greenback
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3300
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Posted: August 14 2004 at 22:23 |
0 stars: NEU! - 2
This is the purest stoopidity in prog music!
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