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Tarkustra

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Joined: December 30 2004
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 13:00

ivan_2068 wrote:

That not only made me laugh... but I could hear RichardH laughing all the way from Swindon... Tony Banks is still praying for the day when he could even shine Emerson's boots...

I don't know, but this sounds offensive to me, (Sounded sexual to me... but then its me)

Tony Banks may not have the technicall skills of Keith Emerson or Rick Wakeman (N°1 IMO), but he's a solid keyboard player very near to both in the top. (. solid keyboard player is a long way below where Keith is)

While Keith was stabbing keyboards or playing with ribbons and Wakeman acting as a stand up comedian, Tony Banks was only worried about his music and giving 110% for his band, (and well he should of been worried, cause he wasn't in Keith or Rick's league... which wasn't decreased because they could play a ribbon controller or tell a good joke)

something the other two never did, Wakeman and Emerson were always worried to shine over the rest of their bandmates while Tony was a part of a well oiled machine that was called early Genesis. (Evidently not so well oiled or they would of been just Genesis and not early Genesis)

Iván

Edited by Tarkustra

When you speak, is it you that hears? Are your ears full? You can't hear anything at all.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: January 03 2005 at 13:09

(Evidently no so well oiled or they would of been just Genesis and not early Genesis)

Early Genesis was a well oiled machine, it worked perfectly, then Peter Gabriel left and the band lost something, but when Steve Hackett left they lost two pieces from a perfect machinery.

Why don't you take the pieces of a watch and buikld it again taking the two principal piece, I'm sure it won't work, ELP also had some problems with ELPowell and that Three band without Lake.

Genesis after Hackett left was no longer Genesis, they should have changed the name to anything, because they were playing a different genre.

(But nots not what you said previously.. solid keyboard player is a long way below where Keith is)

Please, don't change the sense of my words, I believe Keith and over him Rick are tecnically a step over Tony, but technique is not everything, there is team work, being a serious musician, composition, and in this fields, Tony Banks is far ahead both musicians.

If I want to see a great solo show, without doubt will go to see Wakeman, if I want to see a band with a keyboardist that makes spectacular shows I'll go to see Emerson, but if I want to form a band and need a keyboardist that will play for the band and not for his own interest, I'll go with Tony Banks without doubt.

Iván

threefates View Drop Down

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Posted: January 03 2005 at 13:11

Very funny Jamie... you can give the Tarkustra thing up now and go back to being a Pink Floyd fan.. However, thanks for answering that so nicely for me...

Also thanks for the movie and dinner yesterday... now get back to work!

THIS IS ELP

threefates View Drop Down

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Posted: January 03 2005 at 13:18

ivan_2068 wrote:

(But nots not what you said previously.. solid keyboard player is a long way below where Keith is)

Iván

Now Ivan, you're arguing with someone who's young and only knows from what he hears. He's not a Genesis fan either and actually he's just getting into ELP, he's really a huge Pink Floyd fan.

But even I have to remark on one thing... Tony Banks, altho a competent keyboardist, does not compare to Keith or Rick in composition... that I don't see at all. And if I was starting a band where I wanted to shine.. maybe I would invite a keyboardist like Tony, but if I wanted a great band and I didn't care who shined... I'd much rather have Keith Emerson... and he can overshadow as much as he wants.. as long as he's brilliant.

THIS IS ELP

gdub411

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Posted: January 03 2005 at 13:33

Most influenza band evaaaa.....

Autograph band's picture

Certif1ed

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Posted: January 03 2005 at 14:37

threefates wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Yeah, right... whatever...

I think it's because Foxtrot is better musically; technically and in overall execution (although I might concede that Lake's vocals are the superior - however he loses points on lyrics).

Definitely don't agree with that... the first 5 ELP albums had the best production their was.. and it well stands the test of time... Can't say that about any of the Genesis albums.. as far as production is concerned. And Greg's lyrics were genius, now some of Pete's were funny...but still genius..

I didn't mention production

As far as lyrics go, that's your opinion and there's no point my arguing with it as it is cast in you as if in stone (that would be your box).

However, I don't think there are many others that would put Lake above Gabriel as a lyricist, and it can probably be proven technically - but others are better at that than I - Reed for starters.

Banks simply owns Emerson - makes Keith look like a hopeful second-leaguer, and Collins is almost impossible to compare to Palmer - they're both brilliant on the two albums we're comparing.

That not only made me laugh... but I could hear RichardH laughing all the way from Swindon... Tony Banks is still praying for the day when he could even shine Emerson's boots...

I doubt it - Tony's execution is more precise and shows a high degree of technical workmanship. Keith's execution is over-enthusiastic and sloppy, and smacks highly of wannabe. Keith is a boy with toys who likes making lots of noise - and if that's what you want, then he is the best man for the job. The piano playing in "Firth of Fifth" alone tells me that Tony has the real gift for serious technical know-how combined with a great ear for melody. Those two are important to me.

If RichardH shares your opinion, then great, but it's obvious to anyone that's had classical tutoring which is the technical superior.

I will also concede that Genesis had two extra members - but would counter that by saying that it's harder to co-ordinate larger numbers of personnel.

And even with the extra 2 members, the never sounded as full as ELP...

I know your opinions far too well by now, and your resistance to being crowbarred out of your box, but I disagree...

/edit

I have to take back one of my concessions - Greg's intonation on Brain Salad Surgery is pretty bad - especially on "Jerusalem". The tonal quality may be more pleasant, but Gabriel stays on key with more ease!

Must be the perfect pitch.. cause I never heard a bad moment in Jerusalem... and the fact that it still puts chills down my back... when nothing Gabriel has ever sang did that to me... then I think you're wrong there too...

At last! The phrase "I think"!!!

Yes, it's my perfect pitch telling me that (and I'm not wrong!) - the intonation issues are numerous and frequent, but I won't point them out, as you'll try to tell me that it's just Greg putting his emotion into it (it's not, BTW - it's Greg wavering off the note). Gabriel wasn't too precise either, but his vocal style made allowances for that. Greg was aiming at something purer, and did not quite hit the mark. IMO.

His rendition of Jerusalem makes me cringe painfully when I hear it - not just for the intonation, but the tempo, the "scoops" as he slides up to notes and the unnecessary rubato. I know this is probably supposed to be "feeling the music", but not only are these hallmarks of poor technique, it all sounds bad to me.

Gabriel, OTOH has sung much that has sent the shivers down my back, and Fish even more so - horses for courses, wouldn't you agree?

Edited by Certif1ed

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: January 03 2005 at 15:13

but if I wanted a great band and I didn't care who shined... I'd much rather have Keith Emerson... and he can overshadow as much as he wants.. as long as he's brilliant.[/quote]

That's the difference between you and me Threefates, I don't want a band of superstars, I want a great band and that is only reached when all the members work for the band and not for their personal brilloiance.

Tony Banks is responsible for most of the music in early Genesis

[quote]Now Ivan, you're arguing with someone who's young and only knows from what he hears. He's not a Genesis fan either and actually he's just getting into ELP, he's really a huge Pink Floyd fan.

I'm not arguing Threefates, it's a friendly discussion, Tarkustra gave his opinion I gave mine, I believe that's why we are here.

Now returning to the point, I don't agree with the style of saying, "the artist I like is great and all the rest suck or are not worth to clean his shoes", it's no merit to be better than a mediocre artist, the real merit is being greater than another great.

I always accepted Keith but overall Rick are slightly technically better that Tony, but I believe being technically perfect is not everything, I prefer Tony's serious style and his work for the band, he let Steve Hackett connect his guitar to the keyboard and create together an atmospheric sound that was Genesis trademark, that's team work, that's leaving personal interests behind in order to make great music and that is more valuable than technicall skills when being part of a band.

Wakeman did a lot of crazy things when recording his solo projects, but he's allowed to because we're talking about his personal projects and there he can do what he wants, but when you're working with a band oit's not a contest between the members to prove who is greater. it is (or at least should be) a team work.

That's also the way that musicians who are sure of their real value work, not worrying to demonstrate how good they are, but how good the band they played in is.

I believe Genesis music is 100 times better than ELP's, but that's only my personal opinion and has not more value than your's when you say ELP is better, it's pure subjevctive taste and nothing more, I'm ready to accept my opinion is not always the correct one or at least it's not the correct for everybody, are you?

Iván