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AspiK 
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
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Points: 12
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 Topic: seasoned newbie
Posted: September 14 2006 at 08:24 |
Hi everybody!
Very happy to meet all of you in a really fantastic prog site
I'm a prog fun, from Italy, since 1990 when I contracted Crimson virus. I think I'll write some reviews and I will comment on some points. I'm "aspiKous" 
I love King Crimson, and all prog classic band; sure, all Italian prog band too. And jazz, jazz-rock, funky...
I think the progressive started in 1967 from Sgt Pepper and ended in 1979 to The Wall (two of the best prog albums of ever).
Before there is no rock. Later, only new prog, or new rock.
The prog is The Great Rock. New wave killed the Rock and prog in it...
Born as a dark and hard guitar fun, getting on in years, I became an eclectic-pop fun, that I call pop-progressive.
All days I look for that I call prog: jazz-prog, jazz-rock-prog, funky-prog etc...
For me prog is an adjective not a substantive.
In the 90's I only recognize three new-prog bands: After Crying, Echolyn, Anglagard; but only the first, in my opinion, was really new, and great.
The 80's were surely higher.
The 60's were embrional
and the 70's were another thing 
Stay tuned  
Lorenzo
Edited by AspiK - September 14 2006 at 08:25
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 08:26 |
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wow, believe me, with your opinion about ne-prog i'm sure you will comment on many - not some - points...
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 08:29 |
Ciao, Lorenzo, and welcome to PA from one of the resident Italians!
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AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 08:35 |
 toolis wrote:
wow, believe me, with your opinion about ne-prog i'm sure you will comment on many - not some - points... |
no no, only to give the exact difference in comparison with the great past
During the 70's prog was simply the only voice of rock.
Today is a sub genre 
Edited by AspiK - September 14 2006 at 08:38
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 08:37 |
AspiK wrote:
no no, only to give the exact difference in comparison with the great past
During the 70's prog was simply the only voice of rock.
Today is a sub genre [IMG]height=17 alt=Cry src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> |
are you saying that the huge scene of rock of the 70's like Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and a few dozens more, couldn't fulfill your rock criteria?
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 08:40 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Ciao, Lorenzo, and welcome to PA from one of the resident Italians! |
Ciao,
Thank you, happy to meet you
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AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 08:48 |
toolis wrote:
AspiK wrote:
no no, only to give the exact difference in comparison with the great past
During the 70's prog was simply the only voice of rock.
Today is a sub genre [IMG]height=17 alt=Cry src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> |
are you saying that the huge scene of rock of the 70's like Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and a few dozens more, couldn't fulfill your rock criteria? |
average! 
Black Sabbath the first, Led Zeppelin the fourth and Deep Purple, In Rock and Machine Head, are surely much more progressive than much other contemporary works
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 08:52 |
AspiK wrote:
toolis wrote:
AspiK wrote:
no no, only to give the exact difference in comparison with the great past
During the 70's prog was simply the only voice of rock.
Today is a sub genre [IMG]height=17 alt=Cry src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> |
are you saying that the huge scene of rock of the 70's like Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and a few dozens more, couldn't fulfill your rock criteria? |
average!
Black Sabbath the first, Led Zeppelin the fourth and Deep Purple, In Rock and Machine Head, are surely much more progressive than much other contemporary works |
*GR genuflects* BRAVISSIMO!!!!
Edited by Ghost Rider - September 14 2006 at 08:52
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 09:00 |
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still, i can't accept that prog was the only genre of rock of the 70's.. and don't stick to these 3 groups...
if, subjectively, you don't enjoy it that much, that's a different issue...
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 09:02 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
AspiK wrote:
toolis wrote:
AspiK wrote:
no no, only to give the exact difference in comparison with the great past
During the 70's prog was simply the only voice of rock.
Today is a sub genre [IMG]height=17 alt=Cry src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> |
are you saying that the huge scene of rock of the 70's like Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and a few dozens more, couldn't fulfill your rock criteria? |
average!
Black Sabbath the first, Led Zeppelin the fourth and Deep Purple, In Rock and Machine Head, are surely much more progressive than much other contemporary works |
*GR genuflects*
BRAVISSIMO!!!!
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No genuflects, please
I genuflect to them 
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AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 09:04 |
toolis wrote:
still, i can't accept that prog was the only genre of rock of the 70's.. and don't stick to these 3 groups...
if, subjectively, you don't enjoy it that much, that's a different issue... |
Yes, it could be
I wrote "in my opinion", in fact!
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AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 18:38 |
toolis wrote:
still, i can't accept that prog was the only genre of rock of the 70's.. and don't stick to these 3 groups...
if, subjectively, you don't enjoy it that much, that's a different issue... |
Sorry for misunderstanding, I was in hurry to go to work.
I have no problem with new-prog band. Simply I'm happy for their existence!
But, all the same, I think it's impossible to compare the Classics to the news.
During the seventies all great rock works was progressive works too!
Hard, pop, folk, funk, country, borderline, psychedelia, and jazz and blues too, was contaminated by rock, and that type of pollution was the progressive.
No one great band, white or black, European or American, was cut off from progressive.
The same, I think, for someone new vawe band.
Many new vawe works, or pop if you want, at the end of 70's or starting 80's was a bit prog.
No one great album recorded after the 70's great rock band lesson was not eclectic, without any search, without any contamination, without any progressive influence!
Some days ago, listening the great Jacques Loussier Plays Bach cd, was not possible for me think note by note how many influences it taked from seventy prog. A classical melody installed on a jazz rythm section. During the 70's was a normal idea(!), and the King Crimson band was the teacher!
If you don't accept it, it's only because you think the word progressive as a substantive.
The progressive, in the narrow sense, simply was still not in existence during the 70's!
The bands who plaied the "new music" haven't knowledge it was prog!!!
Today prog is a (sub-)genre, in those times was a style 
Lorenzo
Edited by AspiK - September 14 2006 at 19:07
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 18:44 |
Welcome aboard Lorenzo! Seasoned Newbs are my favorite dish
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 14 2006 at 19:09 |
Hallo Micky and thank you for welcome 
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: September 15 2006 at 03:50 |
AspiK wrote:
toolis wrote:
still, i can't accept that prog was the only genre of rock of the 70's.. and don't stick to these 3 groups... if, subjectively, you don't enjoy it that much, that's a different issue... |
Sorry for misunderstanding, I was in hurry to go to work. I have no problem with new-prog band. Simply I'm happy for their existence! But, all the same, I think it's impossible to compare the Classics to the news. During the seventies all great rock works was progressive works too! Hard, pop, folk, funk, country, borderline, psychedelia, and jazz and blues too, was contaminated by rock, and that type of pollution was the progressive. No one great band, white or black, European or American, was cut off from progressive. The same, I think, for someone new vawe band. Many new vawe works, or pop if you want, at the end of 70's or starting 80's was a bit prog. No one great album recorded after the 70's great rock band lesson was not eclectic, without any search, without any contamination, without any progressive influence! Some days ago, listening the great Jacques Loussier Plays Bach cd, was not possible for me think note by note how many influences it taked from seventy prog. A classical melody installed on a jazz rythm section. During the 70's was a normal idea(!), and the King Crimson band was the teacher! If you don't accept it, it's only because you think the word progressive as a substantive. The progressive, in the narrow sense, simply was still not in existence during the 70's! The bands who plaied the "new music" haven't knowledge it was prog!!! Today prog is a (sub-)genre, in those times was a style [IMG]height=17 alt=Cool src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> Lorenzo |
i'm totally on board with you when you say that prog was the greatest 70's stuff... but you see, i happen to be a great 70's fan of all genres played back then and i assure you, there were some great bands that had nothing to do with prog... bands like Bad Company, Aerosmith, Grand Funk Railroad, blues rock like Gallagher,Clapton, hard rock like Scorpions, Rainbow, heavy rock like Blue Cheer or Iron Butterfly... you name it..
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
|
|
AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
|
Posted: September 15 2006 at 09:01 |
toolis wrote:
AspiK wrote:
toolis wrote:
still, i can't accept that prog was the only genre of rock of the 70's.. and don't stick to these 3 groups... if, subjectively, you don't enjoy it that much, that's a different issue... |
Sorry for misunderstanding, I was in hurry to go to work.
I have no problem with new-prog band. Simply I'm happy for their existence!
But, all the same, I think it's impossible to compare the Classics to the news.
During the seventies all great rock works was progressive works too!
Hard, pop, folk, funk, country, borderline, psychedelia, and jazz and blues too, was contaminated by rock, and that type of pollution was the progressive.
No one great band, white or black, European or American, was cut off from progressive.
The same, I think, for someone new vawe band.
Many new vawe works, or pop if you want, at the end of 70's or starting 80's was a bit prog.
No one great album recorded after the 70's great rock band lesson was not eclectic, without any search, without any contamination, without any progressive influence!
Some days ago, listening the great Jacques Loussier Plays Bach cd, was not possible for me think note by note how many influences it taked from seventy prog. A classical melody installed on a jazz rythm section. During the 70's was a normal idea(!), and the King Crimson band was the teacher!
If you don't accept it, it's only because you think the word progressive as a substantive.
The progressive, in the narrow sense, simply was still not in existence during the 70's!
The bands who plaied the "new music" haven't knowledge it was prog!!!
Today prog is a (sub-)genre, in those times was a style [IMG]height=17 alt=Cool src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
Lorenzo |
[QUOTE=toolis]
i'm totally on board with you when you say that prog was the greatest 70's stuff... but you see, i happen to be a great 70's fan of all genres played back then and i assure you, there were some great bands that had nothing to do with prog... bands like Bad Company, Aerosmith, Grand Funk Railroad, blues rock like Gallagher,Clapton, hard rock like Scorpions, Rainbow, heavy rock like Blue Cheer or Iron Butterfly... you name it..
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no no,
you couldn't found it, but the progressive is clearly into them:
Aerosmith's Rocks, Hard Place and the beautiful Dream On ballad (hard and pop-prog); Grand Funk Railroad's Closer to Home, American Band, E Pluribus, Phoenix (soul-funk-hard-prog); Clapton's Slow Hand and Unplugged (pop and jazzy-folk-prog); Rainbow... oh my God, could heavy metal prog exist without them??? Rising is one of the finest hard-prog works of ever!!!
I don't love the others, but prog is in Gallagher's Taste (blues-prog) and, in a proto-prog form, in In A Gadda Da Vida too. As I found it in Lonesome Crow.
For me are prog works, the same, It's a Beautiful Day Same, Greateful Dead Anthem of the Sun and Pronounced Lynyrd Skynyrd (Tuesday Gone) too! And Thriller not?!?
Yesss! Toolis, could you tell me why prog wasn't in them (and why it was into Dream Theater the first)???
Bye
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daz2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2006
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 4483
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Posted: September 15 2006 at 15:12 |
welcome & enjoy! 
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In the constellation of cygnus,There lurks a mysterious force...The black hole
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: September 17 2006 at 02:03 |
AspiK wrote:
toolis wrote:
AspiK wrote:
toolis wrote:
still, i can't accept that prog was the only genre of rock of the 70's.. and don't stick to these 3 groups... if, subjectively, you don't enjoy it that much, that's a different issue... |
Sorry for misunderstanding, I was in hurry to go to work. I have no problem with new-prog band. Simply I'm happy for their existence! But, all the same, I think it's impossible to compare the Classics to the news. During the seventies all great rock works was progressive works too! Hard, pop, folk, funk, country, borderline, psychedelia, and jazz and blues too, was contaminated by rock, and that type of pollution was the progressive. No one great band, white or black, European or American, was cut off from progressive. The same, I think, for someone new vawe band. Many new vawe works, or pop if you want, at the end of 70's or starting 80's was a bit prog. No one great album recorded after the 70's great rock band lesson was not eclectic, without any search, without any contamination, without any progressive influence! Some days ago, listening the great Jacques Loussier Plays Bach cd, was not possible for me think note by note how many influences it taked from seventy prog. A classical melody installed on a jazz rythm section. During the 70's was a normal idea(!), and the King Crimson band was the teacher! If you don't accept it, it's only because you think the word progressive as a substantive. The progressive, in the narrow sense, simply was still not in existence during the 70's! The bands who plaied the "new music" haven't knowledge it was prog!!! Today prog is a (sub-)genre, in those times was a style [IMG]height=17 alt=Cool src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> Lorenzo |
[QUOTE=toolis]i'm totally on board with you when you say that prog was the greatest 70's stuff... but you see, i happen to be a great 70's fan of all genres played back then and i assure you, there were some great bands that had nothing to do with prog... bands like Bad Company, Aerosmith, Grand Funk Railroad, blues rock like Gallagher,Clapton, hard rock like Scorpions, Rainbow, heavy rock like Blue Cheer or Iron Butterfly... you name it..
|
no no,
you couldn't found it, but the progressive is clearly into them:
Aerosmith's Rocks, Hard Place and the beautiful Dream On ballad (hard and pop-prog); Grand Funk Railroad's Closer to Home, American Band, E Pluribus, Phoenix (soul-funk-hard-prog); Clapton's Slow Hand and Unplugged (pop and jazzy-folk-prog); Rainbow... oh my God, could heavy metal prog exist without them??? Rising is one of the finest hard-prog works of ever!!!
I don't love the others, but prog is in Gallagher's Taste (blues-prog) and, in a proto-prog form, in In A Gadda Da Vida too. As I found it in Lonesome Crow.
For me are prog works, the same, It's a Beautiful Day Same, Greateful Dead Anthem of the Sun and Pronounced Lynyrd Skynyrd (Tuesday Gone) too! And Thriller not?!?
Yesss! [IMG]height=17 alt=Clap src="smileys/smiley32.gif" width=18 align=absMiddle>
Toolis, could you tell me why prog wasn't in them (and why it was into Dream Theater the first)???
Bye |
i really begin to like you, my friend Aspik... even though i don't see any prog in the above, i really admire your point of view... to me, Aerosmith, any Aeromsmith LP is pure US hard rock... Clapton is blues rock and i don't see anything else... Rainbow set the standards for European power metal, especially with "Rising" and songs like "A Light In The Black" and ask (well, like you could..) bands like Helloween and Gamma Ray... anyway, i could go on like this about all bands you've mentioned... and i'm pretty sure that if you could ask any post 1980 prog band, they wouldn't mention any of these bands as their influence... this may not nessecarily mean anything but it sure is indicative... anyway, i respect your opinion and i promise i'll give it another try so that maybe i see what you see in these bands.. who knows?
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
|
|
AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
|
Posted: September 17 2006 at 12:22 |
toolis wrote:
AspiK wrote:
toolis wrote:
AspiK wrote:
toolis wrote:
still, i can't accept that prog was the only genre of rock of the 70's.. and don't stick to these 3 groups... if, subjectively, you don't enjoy it that much, that's a different issue... |
Sorry for misunderstanding, I was in hurry to go to work.
I have no problem with new-prog band. Simply I'm happy for their existence!
But, all the same, I think it's impossible to compare the Classics to the news.
During the seventies all great rock works was progressive works too!
Hard, pop, folk, funk, country, borderline, psychedelia, and jazz and blues too, was contaminated by rock, and that type of pollution was the progressive.
No one great band, white or black, European or American, was cut off from progressive.
The same, I think, for someone new vawe band.
Many new vawe works, or pop if you want, at the end of 70's or starting 80's was a bit prog.
No one great album recorded after the 70's great rock band lesson was not eclectic, without any search, without any contamination, without any progressive influence!
Some days ago, listening the great Jacques Loussier Plays Bach cd, was not possible for me think note by note how many influences it taked from seventy prog. A classical melody installed on a jazz rythm section. During the 70's was a normal idea(!), and the King Crimson band was the teacher!
If you don't accept it, it's only because you think the word progressive as a substantive.
The progressive, in the narrow sense, simply was still not in existence during the 70's!
The bands who plaied the "new music" haven't knowledge it was prog!!!
Today prog is a (sub-)genre, in those times was a style [IMG]height=17 alt=Cool src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
Lorenzo |
[QUOTE=toolis]i'm totally on board with you when you say that prog was the greatest 70's stuff... but you see, i happen to be a great 70's fan of all genres played back then and i assure you, there were some great bands that had nothing to do with prog... bands like Bad Company, Aerosmith, Grand Funk Railroad, blues rock like Gallagher,Clapton, hard rock like Scorpions, Rainbow, heavy rock like Blue Cheer or Iron Butterfly... you name it..
|
no no,
you couldn't found it, but the progressive is clearly into them:
Aerosmith's Rocks, Hard Place and the beautiful Dream On ballad (hard and pop-prog); Grand Funk Railroad's Closer to Home, American Band, E Pluribus, Phoenix (soul-funk-hard-prog); Clapton's Slow Hand and Unplugged (pop and jazzy-folk-prog); Rainbow... oh my God, could heavy metal prog exist without them??? Rising is one of the finest hard-prog works of ever!!!
I don't love the others, but prog is in Gallagher's Taste (blues-prog) and, in a proto-prog form, in In A Gadda Da Vida too. As I found it in Lonesome Crow.
For me are prog works, the same, It's a Beautiful Day Same, Greateful Dead Anthem of the Sun and Pronounced Lynyrd Skynyrd (Tuesday Gone) too! And Thriller not?!?
Yesss! [IMG]height=17 alt=Clap src="smileys/smiley32.gif" width=18 align=absMiddle>
Toolis, could you tell me why prog wasn't in them (and why it was into Dream Theater the first)???
Bye |
i really begin to like you, my friend Aspik... even though i don't see any prog in the above, i really admire your point of view... to me, Aerosmith, any Aeromsmith LP is pure US hard rock...
Clapton is blues rock and i don't see anything else ... Rainbow set the standards for European power metal, especially with "Rising" and songs like "A Light In The Black" and ask (well, like you could..) bands like Helloween and Gamma Ray... anyway, i could go on like this about all bands you've mentioned... and i'm pretty sure that if you could ask any post 1980 prog band, they wouldn't mention any of these bands as their influence... this may not nessecarily mean anything but it sure is indicative...
anyway, i respect your opinion and i promise i'll give it another try so that maybe i see what you see in these bands.. who knows? |
Dear friend Toolis, I have some problems to understand and to be understanding in English, even though, so I am I have a clear idea in that the prog is, or isn’t. I'll try.
In Slow Hand, for exemple, with the blues rock, yeah, there is the folk, the bluegrass, the hard rock and the pop too.
You should play the last song “Peaches and Diesel” with the flute at the place of the electric guitar to have the exact idea!
Please, try. The result should be no more far from a Genesis ballad!!!
I don't tell that Clapton is as prog than Genesis are, NO, I simply tell he was influenced from prog, TOO.
So on…
80’s metal bands were inspired by Rainbow, and many 90’s heavy prog band were inspired by 80’s.
It’s the right rule. No one could plays without any inspiration; there is no one completely new idea, even about, a normal growing way to joint his own artistic maturity, and it pass thought heard own recent past, or catapulting himself into the far past (rare).
No one Iron Maiden note was wrote, I think and observe, without to have heard all Black Sabbath works, an so on, with Deep Purple, Rainbow and many many 60’s blues bands…
What type of music, you think, Dream Theatre heard?
But, in our dialogue, it isn’t really important. So that really import is the artistic approach of all the bands, that you and I referred on. All wrote their musical pages in search of a new language, a personal vanguard into their specific territory. The point is: is it progressive?
For me, it is.
The mélange, the musical research, the environment there where the hearer come: this the Prog is.
Edited by AspiK - September 17 2006 at 19:14
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AspiK
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 14 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 17 2006 at 12:23 |
Bye!
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