Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Tech Talk
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Crazy stereo sollutions
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedCrazy stereo sollutions
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
mirco View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2005
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 819 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Crazy stereo sollutions
    Posted: February 15 2005 at 16:56
Reading the thread about were you listen to your first prog purchase, I remembered that when I was 17, I had two amplifiers. Each one of them had a channell burnt, so I plugged the right output of my turntable and the right input of my cassette corder to the one with right channell ok, same thing with the left channell, and recorded very hilarious tapes (for some reason, the sound where "faster" in one of the amplifiers, so the tapes have a delay between right and left channell).

Edited by mirco
Please forgive me for my crappy english!
Back to Top
The-Bullet View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 23 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 401 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 18:08
I think I read somewhere that some audiophiles today use seperate amps for each speaker, or maybe it's a different amp for each of the 2 inputs on some speakers. My speakers have 2 inputs (bi-wiring for treble and bass), but I'm not so frivolous as to have 2 amps  .

"Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?"
Back to Top
mirco View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2005
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 819 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 18:18

So I was avant-garded without knowing it... 

In my case it wasn't frivolity, but lack of resources!

 
Please forgive me for my crappy english!
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 05:56
Originally posted by The-Bullet The-Bullet wrote:

I think I read somewhere that some audiophiles today use seperate amps for each speaker, or maybe it's a different amp for each of the 2 inputs on some speakers. My speakers have 2 inputs (bi-wiring for treble and bass), but I'm not so frivolous as to have 2 amps  .


Yes, you can use one amp par channel, for a better "image" and when you bi-amp (tube amp for high freq and transistor amp in the low),that can make a total of 4 amps!
And you can bi-cable moreover.
I have bicable and double the low freq cables (which makes 3 cables per speakers, 150€ the meter of cable)
i know a very big audiophile who has transparent opus speakers cables, which costs 120.000€ (150.000dollars)
cause he has 4 pieces of transparent opus cables (30.000€ per piece of cable)
he heas one of the best system in the world!
(that's him who has the best Mark Levinson cd player in the world : 45.000 dollars with cables)
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2005 at 08:53

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Originally posted by The-Bullet The-Bullet wrote:

I think I read somewhere that some audiophiles today use seperate amps for each speaker, or maybe it's a different amp for each of the 2 inputs on some speakers. My speakers have 2 inputs (bi-wiring for treble and bass), but I'm not so frivolous as to have 2 amps  .


Yes, you can use one amp par channel, for a better "image" and when you bi-amp (tube amp for high freq and transistor amp in the low),that can make a total of 4 amps!
And you can bi-cable moreover.
I have bicable and double the low freq cables (which makes 3 cables per speakers, 150€ the meter of cable)
i know a very big audiophile who has transparent opus speakers cables, which costs 120.000€ (150.000dollars)
cause he has 4 pieces of transparent opus cables (30.000€ per piece of cable)
he heas one of the best system in the world!
(that's him who has the best Mark Levinson cd player in the world : 45.000 dollars with cables)

Yes you can use a seperate power amp per set of units,this is called Bi-Amping.Even better results is to use mono block power amps per each unit per each channel.But you must have a split cross over,most serious speakers these days have Bi -Wire facilities.Apart from the obvious lack of Cross over interaction between unit frequencies you also gain with mono block power,the fact that the amp has its own dedicated power supply,same kindda thing your trying to gain by bi-amping...

Bi-Wiring & Bi-Amping

 

What is the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping?
Bi-wiring is using the same power source (amplifier) but separately connecting that power source to a woofer and a midrange/tweeter on a speaker.

Bi-amping is using two separate power sources (amplifiers) and connecting one amplifier to a woofer and the other amplifier to a midrange/tweeter on a speaker.

How do I bi-wire?
Your speaker must have two separate positive and negative connections (one set for the woofer and one set for the midrange/tweeter). Connect one wire between the positive terminal on the amplifier/receiver the positive terminal on the speaker. Connect the other wire from the negative terminal on the amplifier/receiver to the corresponding negative terminal on the speaker. Remove the jumper straps connecting the two sets of speaker inputs. Repeat this process for the second set of terminals on the speaker, connecting them to the same positive and negative terminals on the receiver/amplifier. Repeat the steps for each speaker you wish to Bi-Wire, connecting them to the appropriate terminals on your receiver/amplifier.



How do I bi-amp?
Bi-amping is similar to bi-wiring, but involves separate amplifiers: one for the woofer and one for the midrange/tweeter. Passive bi-amping involves a direct hookup between each amplifier and the speaker terminals. True bi-amping involves hooking the preamp to an electronic crossover that replaces the passive crossover network in the speaker. The active crossover then connects to multiple power amplifiers. For example, one amplifier for the woofer and another amplifier for the mid/highs. The internal speaker crossover network must be eliminated. bi-amping is a difficult and expensive approach that is not typically employed.

 

 

Oliver mentions using Valve power for the high frequency & Transistor for lower end.This has it's good points but ideally you need the same output from both variant or you could end up with a serious mismatch level.Ideally if your gonna do this you want a gain control for the Valve power amps to tailor the output,but as it goes in serious hi-fi you trying to scrap as many sound barrier hurdles in the chain as you can ie:volume/tone controls,switches etc which all add resistance to the chain.
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19626 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2005 at 10:05
Originally posted by Karnevil9 Karnevil9 wrote:

Yes you can use a seperate power amp per set of units,this is called Bi-Amping.Even better results is to use mono block power amps per each unit per each channel.But you must have a split cross over,most serious speakers these days have Bi -Wire facilities.Apart from the obvious lack of Cross over interaction between unit frequencies you also gain with mono block power,the fact that the amp has its own dedicated power supply,same kindda thing your trying to gain by bi-amping...

Bi-Wiring & Bi-Amping

 

What is the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping?
Bi-wiring is using the same power source (amplifier) but separately connecting that power source to a woofer and a midrange/tweeter on a speaker.

Bi-amping is using two separate power sources (amplifiers) and connecting one amplifier to a woofer and the other amplifier to a midrange/tweeter on a speaker.

How do I bi-wire?
Your speaker must have two separate positive and negative connections (one set for the woofer and one set for the midrange/tweeter). Connect one wire between the positive terminal on the amplifier/receiver the positive terminal on the speaker. Connect the other wire from the negative terminal on the amplifier/receiver to the corresponding negative terminal on the speaker. Remove the jumper straps connecting the two sets of speaker inputs. Repeat this process for the second set of terminals on the speaker, connecting them to the same positive and negative terminals on the receiver/amplifier. Repeat the steps for each speaker you wish to Bi-Wire, connecting them to the appropriate terminals on your receiver/amplifier.

 

This bi-wiring really brings up the sound? Is the double wiring (and therefore double the cost) really worth it?I have B & W A6304 speakers that would allow such thing and good cables .

I know that cables do make differences as I saw recently when I got rid of those stupid white and red RCA connector supplied with my NAD amplifier. I chose some uni-directional silver wires with Gold contact between my CD deck and the amplifier and what a difference this made!
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2005 at 20:11
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Karnevil9 Karnevil9 wrote:

Yes you can use a seperate power amp per set of units,this is called Bi-Amping.Even better results is to use mono block power amps per each unit per each channel.But you must have a split cross over,most serious speakers these days have Bi -Wire facilities.Apart from the obvious lack of Cross over interaction between unit frequencies you also gain with mono block power,the fact that the amp has its own dedicated power supply,same kindda thing your trying to gain by bi-amping...

Bi-Wiring & Bi-Amping

 

What is the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping?
Bi-wiring is using the same power source (amplifier) but separately connecting that power source to a woofer and a midrange/tweeter on a speaker.

Bi-amping is using two separate power sources (amplifiers) and connecting one amplifier to a woofer and the other amplifier to a midrange/tweeter on a speaker.

How do I bi-wire?
Your speaker must have two separate positive and negative connections (one set for the woofer and one set for the midrange/tweeter). Connect one wire between the positive terminal on the amplifier/receiver the positive terminal on the speaker. Connect the other wire from the negative terminal on the amplifier/receiver to the corresponding negative terminal on the speaker. Remove the jumper straps connecting the two sets of speaker inputs. Repeat this process for the second set of terminals on the speaker, connecting them to the same positive and negative terminals on the receiver/amplifier. Repeat the steps for each speaker you wish to Bi-Wire, connecting them to the appropriate terminals on your receiver/amplifier.

 

This bi-wiring really brings up the sound? Is the double wiring (and therefore double the cost) really worth it?I have B & W A6304 speakers that would allow such thing and good cables .

I know that cables do make differences as I saw recently when I got rid of those stupid white and red RCA connector supplied with my NAD amplifier. I chose some uni-directional silver wires with Gold contact between my CD deck and the amplifier and what a difference this made!

Yes the additional wiring is worth it.Bi-wiring you actually power each section of the cross over.More control & x-over interaction between the driver units is down to minimum...This is really only an evident upgrade if you have excellent quality equipment.Remember bi-wiring & bi-amping are different...



Edited by Karnevil9
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19626 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2005 at 10:34

Thanks KE9!

I shall try this , soon!
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2005 at 10:37
yes, for one time, i agree with him

I'm a bi-wiring adept
(and even to double the low-freq! remember!)

and bi-amp with tubes in the high and transistor in the low is the royal way!
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2005 at 08:19

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

yes, for one time, i agree with him

I'm a bi-wiring adept
(and even to double the low-freq! remember!)

and bi-amp with tubes in the high and transistor in the low is the royal way!

 

Oliver i said that using your tube power amp is a bad idea blasting rock music through due to the threat of over driving your tubes & putting excessive strain on your output transformers.You said near enough i was talking bollox.

But above you've just contradicted yourself saying tube for high end & transistor for low end power.You must use transistor on low end for loud rock music,agreeable regarding tubes for high end but christ Oliver make your mind up

Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2005 at 11:42
I say tubes for high because it's obvious tubes easily beat transistor in the bass freq but the low are still a little "round" with tube.
So, it's a way to combine the advantages of each technology.
You don't know that, after 25 years in Hifi?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2005 at 15:11

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

I say tubes for high because it's obvious tubes easily beat transistor in the bass freq but the low are still a little "round" with tube.
So, it's a way to combine the advantages of each technology.
You don't know that, after 25 years in Hifi?

f**k OFF

YOU SILLY

LITTLE

BASTARD.

YOU KNOW IF I KNEW WHERE YOU LIVED I'D TAKE TIME OUT & COME OVER THERE TO KNOCK SOME F**KING SENCE IN YOU STUPID HEAD.TEENAGE PRICK

 

 



Edited by Karnevil9
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2005 at 15:37
Erratum: I wanted to say "tubes are better in the HIGH than transistor", and not the contrary.


To the sad fellow above:
I wouldn't want to be in your place.
It's hard for your ego that a "teenage" learn you life.

Back to Top
Easy Livin View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2005 at 15:53

I've always had my doubts about the benefits of bi-wiring. Here's an article on the subject:

http://www.eastwoodhifi.com.au/tweak.htm

The first part reads:

Bi-Wiring, this'll upset any audiophiles who slipped through my front page warning! For general home use, bi-wiring speakers offers absolutely no benefit whatsoever except for doubling the thickness of the speaker wire (which is why most people can hear an improvement). Those little electrons don't magically split into various frequencies and follow the path to the correct speaker (tweeter, woofer or whatever) so don't waste your time and money.
Back to Top
goose View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2005 at 15:59
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Those little electrons don't magically split into various frequencies and follow the path to the correct speaker (tweeter, woofer or whatever) so don't waste your time and money.

There is definitely an audible different even for my humble system when I biwire. Surely the amp itself splits up the signal?
Back to Top
oliverstoned View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2005 at 02:48
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I've always had my doubts about the benefits of bi-wiring. Here's an article on the subject:


http://www.eastwoodhifi.com.au/tweak.htm


The first part reads:


Bi-Wiring, this'll upset any audiophiles who slipped through my front page warning! For general home use, bi-wiring speakers offers absolutely no benefit whatsoever except for doubling the thickness of the speaker wire (which is why most people can hear an improvement). Those little electrons don't magically split into various frequencies and follow the path to the correct speaker (tweeter, woofer or whatever) so don't waste your time and money.



There's a huge improvement by double wiring;
And even more if you double the low cable (because the boomer need much power, and when you double, you lower the cable's resistivity), this result in an huge improvment on all criterias: image (soundstage), dynamic, low and HIGH.
When you bi-wire, you relieve your amp by lowering cable's resistivity.
In hifi, you have many theories.
But sometimes theories don't match with the practice.
A goodtube amp has higher distorsions levels than a transistor amp.
But when you listen, it's night and day: the transistor amp will make "rape with cheese" in the highs, whereas the good tube amp will give you shivers on voices, violins, trumpets, in one word: music!
So what does it means?
It means that it is'nt the good criteria for judging musicality.
It's the same with the bi-wire or bi-amp question: some will tell you that it creates problems with filters and other things...
But when you do, it's better: more musical.
And that what's important.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.148 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.