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Raymon7174 
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 94
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 Topic: The List
Posted: March 08 2005 at 12:06 |
There has been a lot of discussion about the Prog Archives list of top albums which has now become a list of the most popular titles. There has also been a lot of discussion about modifying the algorithm to better reflect this sites most popular albums. Is there going to be a change? Train of Thought is still No. 2.
Also, when did popular become equated with best?
Why has this site's list of top albums degenerated into a popularity contest?
BTW, IMHO the older collaborator's list was more useful. People like me who do not enjoy as vast a knowledge of prog as is possessed by most if not all of the collaborators visit this site to get opionions from people who know, i.e., experts. Perhaps many forum members are as knowledgeable, but the list is not limited to forum members either.
This site has collected a group of experts to give their opinions about the music everyone who regularly visits this site loves, aka, the collaborators. It seems counterintuitive to abandon the collaborator's list of top albums in favor of a list which waters down expert opinions by giving the masses (including me as a non-collaborator) too large a say in the list?
Personally, I would rather be presented with a list from the experts and proceed from there than see a list that is little more than a popularity contest among people who may not know even as much about prog as I do. It seems to me that the credibility of the list takes a big hit when there is no quality control on input that is used to generate the list.
If we wanted to listen to music simply b/c the largest group of people has had access to it and likes it, we would be listening to POP, wouldn't we?
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 Raymon
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26252
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 12:31 |
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The list is actually reasonably well balanced.It will never please everyone.Yes - Close To The Edge is NO1 which seems ok to me.The fact that Dream Theatre are very popular is not a crime and doesn't mean they are not worthy of having a high place in the charts.Maybe we should just accept this.They do qualify as a prog band I believe.
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Hangedman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 03 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1261
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 12:41 |
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And they are staggeringly popular, when I visit me ol' ma now and then, my younger brother (who also happens to be a prog head and a good friend of mine) his friends who are now becoming prog converts due to my brothers influence usually list Dream Theater as thier favourite (even though my brother hates them... wierd) It seems easy to get into, and vastly adored even outside the prog world.... Now if only i could get them.
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Raymon7174
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 94
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 12:42 |
I do like YES - CTTE at the top and have no problem with Dream Theater being a prog band. I like Dream Theater's MSFAM and Awake albums a lot.
I also know that the list will never please everyone and I am okay with that concept.
What I am more interested to know is why this site went from a list of top albums as conceived by this sites experts in favor of a list which reflects a popularity contest among all of this site's visitors. I certainly concede that the Collaborators know a lot more about prog than I do. I also question the credibility of a list that reflects top albums as being the most popular titles among a group of people that need no other credentials but having visited the site and written a review, even if it is useless.
If this site thinks the most popular titles are useful, so be it.
I still think the site loses credibility by giving up the expertise of the Collaborators in generating its list and its suggestions for albums from particular bands.
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Raymon
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 12:45 |
 Raymon7174 wrote:
I still think the site loses credibility by giving up the expertise of the Collaborators in generating its list and its suggestions for albums from particular bands.
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I'm incredible then 
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12802
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 13:46 |
Perhaps it is worth archiving (that's what we are about, surely), other's lists (with acknowledgements). Three lists I'm aware of which might made available here:
UK TV Channel 4's Top Ten Progressive Rock Bands, based on UK sales. In no particular order (except Floyd were 1st of those I can remember): Hawkwind, Rush, King Crimson, Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, and for the life of me I can't remember the remaining three.
Q magazine's essential top ten progressive rock albums (compiled from a poll held amongst those folks Q thought were experts(?)) - I'll see if I can find this, but it included some of the obvious suspects, although the magazine apologised for non-inclusion of a Van Der Graaf album!)
Mojo Essentials magazine, top ten jazz rock albums for starters, which included
Bitches Brew (Miles Davis)
Third (Soft Machine)
Inner Mounting Flame (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
Hymn Of The Seventh Galaxy (RTF)
Spectrum (Billy Cobham)
Heavy Weather (Weather Report)
There was an early 90's Tribal Tech and (surprisingly) a Scott Henderson album included - the compiler Jon Newey, had taken a concensus on the list (I was one of several people he asked, while agreeing with the six already listed, he ignored my suggestions of Hellborg's Octave Of The Holy Innocents and Bruford's Feels Good To Me)
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 13:59 |
Let`s all take all our prog CD`s, records and DVDs and make a big bonfire with them and seek out shock therapy to brainwash us into thinking Mariah is the Only One. Then we wouldn`t have these stupid what is/ what is`nt prog or the best this or the best that arguments clutering up the site. 
Edited by Vibrationbaby
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Raymon7174
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 94
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 14:11 |
Without intending to, I think Vibrationbaby just helped to emphasize my point that popularity is not the main criteria by which prog music should be judged. The list is a popularity contest. Where is the credibility in that? Even if the most popular titles list is judged useful, which appears to be a given, the collaborators have a list. Why not show it too?
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Raymon
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 14:15 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
Let`s all take all our prog CD`s, records and DVDs and make a big bonfire with them and seek out shock therapy to brainwash us into thinking Mariah is the Only One. Then we wouldn`t have these stupid what is/ what is`nt prog or the best this or the best that arguments clutering up the site. |
Whose the best Vibrationbaby or Raymon?
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Prog_head
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 24 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 109
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Posted: March 08 2005 at 14:20 |
[QUOTE=Dick Heath]
UK TV Channel 4's Top Ten Progressive Rock Bands, based on UK sales. In no particular order (except Floyd were 1st of those I can remember): Hawkwind, Rush, King Crimson, Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, and for the life of me I can't remember the remaining three.
The others were ELP (at number 6), camel (10?) can't remember the other
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 They called me the Reverend when i entered the Chruch unstained; My employers have changed but the name has remained.
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