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ClassicRocker View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2008 at 21:28
Thanks Jake for the much less "radical" suggestion Clap

Well, admins...how does this latter option sound?

Edited by ClassicRocker - February 14 2008 at 21:29
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The T View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2008 at 14:44
Let me have each and every new PA member for a week... I will indoctrinate them.... I can be "PA Indoctrinator Prog Metal Specialist Spiritual Guide" if you want.... It will only take a week... and you'll see wonders...Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2008 at 16:10
It is less radical, but so where your revised suggestions. What I'm missing is when these video's or screen shots would be shown - seeing them once doesn't stick forever, seeing them everyday drives people away i the same way as not being able to post.

As for an earlier question you asked (although I don't see the value of knowing it): the post for groupie level is set at 40 posts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2008 at 17:00
I apologize for my vagueness/incoherency... Embarrassed

I was curious about the post number just because 40 posts is much easier to reach than 100 (for Sr. versus Groupie rank). A minor detail, I guess.

Well, I suppose for the screen shot(s) / video, it would be beneficial to have it in two instances. The first time would be when a member first registers with the site. It could even be one of those pop-up messages similar to "Thank you for voting" in polls or the ratings warning pop-up for 1 and 5 stars. The second time can be when a member starts a new thread.

Now, you could possibly apply that to everyone, and for every new thread the message comes up to search first before creating one. The other option could involve the ranks again, and maybe put the message up for 1 and 2 star members when they start a thread. But I think the fault with that would be that a member could very likely be a senior member before ever making a thread.

So if our members wouldn't be too inconvenienced by a quick pop-up every time they want to start a new thread, I think that may be a viable solution.

Thoughts?

EDIT: In addition to mentioning the search function, the pop-up should also remind members to make sure the thread is in the correct forum.


Edited by ClassicRocker - February 15 2008 at 18:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2008 at 06:03
Could work.... I'm taking this to the admin team right now Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2008 at 14:27
Thumbs%20Up Great - anticipating the results... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 16:59
I've been thinking about this thread for a while and having visited another forum with a much harsher structure, ideas have formed. Seeing another thread about a bizarre age division plot finally made me decide to write down my ideas.

a) Post count should be hidden. I know ClassicRocker's ideas hinged on this variable, but it's a faulty measure compared to the one I'd use. Forum subtitles and member star value no longer become upgraded from the first star by post count alone.

b) Subforums like Prog Polls, Just for Fun, Welcome, etc. etc. should be open to all visitors and posters. You could move stuff like "What are you listening to" "Velvet Room part 40" and "Recent purchases" to Just for Fun since, well, they're fluff. Sometimes diverting and wholesome fluff, but fluff all the same. "Prog Recommendations" also stays open to every visitor so that new members can ask questions and then vanish like they so often do.

c) Things like the Prog Lounge and Blog become restricted so that newbies can't post in them, and if a senior member starts a dumb thread in a serious subforum, their thread is quietly deleted. Newbies can still read all the posts here so it's not secret like, say, the Collab area.

d) Have Mods and Monitors read the newbie forums from time to time, looking for posters with personality and something to say, then passing their names on to Admins so that they can promote them to senior members. Have seperate "recent post" boards for serious and non-serious sections.

e) Abolish the "forum stimulator" role since every non-newbie member now qualifies as one. Each poster with access to the serious subsections retains it so long as they remain untrollish and eloquent.

This'd create a more rigorous environment where people could expect to have their serious and thoughtful threads populated with serious and thoughtful replies. It'd even make the fun sections less godforsaken, since many of the posters there would be auditioning for higher things.

now... call me a fascist ;P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 17:21
^ fascist


Might be interesting, though
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 17:50
Certainly I'd like to see more Political discussion and religious debate on the forum but unfortunately these soon dissolve into name-calling and rule infringements. On other forums I have visited, much as Laplace mentions in his excellent post above,  you have to have a certain amount of posts or an agreed status before you can even see the Off-topic discussion forums. Others like Progressive Ears only permit you to make a certain amount of posts a day, but as Stonie mentions, this is a bit drastic IMO.

I'm not sure that we would want the main Prog Lounge restricted as it is our main (forum) attraction as it were.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 22:58
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

I've been thinking about this thread for a while and having visited another forum with a much harsher structure, ideas have formed. Seeing another thread about a bizarre age division plot finally made me decide to write down my ideas.

a) Post count should be hidden. I know ClassicRocker's ideas hinged on this variable, but it's a faulty measure compared to the one I'd use. Forum subtitles and member star value no longer become upgraded from the first star by post count alone.

b) Subforums like Prog Polls, Just for Fun, Welcome, etc. etc. should be open to all visitors and posters. You could move stuff like "What are you listening to" "Velvet Room part 40" and "Recent purchases" to Just for Fun since, well, they're fluff. Sometimes diverting and wholesome fluff, but fluff all the same. "Prog Recommendations" also stays open to every visitor so that new members can ask questions and then vanish like they so often do.

c) Things like the Prog Lounge and Blog become restricted so that newbies can't post in them, and if a senior member starts a dumb thread in a serious subforum, their thread is quietly deleted. Newbies can still read all the posts here so it's not secret like, say, the Collab area.

d) Have Mods and Monitors read the newbie forums from time to time, looking for posters with personality and something to say, then passing their names on to Admins so that they can promote them to senior members. Have seperate "recent post" boards for serious and non-serious sections.

e) Abolish the "forum stimulator" role since every non-newbie member now qualifies as one. Each poster with access to the serious subsections retains it so long as they remain untrollish and eloquent.

This'd create a more rigorous environment where people could expect to have their serious and thoughtful threads populated with serious and thoughtful replies. It'd even make the fun sections less godforsaken, since many of the posters there would be auditioning for higher things.

now... call me a fascist ;P

Nice post, laplaceSmile
My replies:

a) Post count is a funny thing, and I do accept that it isn't really the best criteria to look at... in my initial few posts in this thread I was just trying to make sense of the current method of "ranking-up", and apply it to my little alteration.

b) This part sounds pretty good

c) I don't think that would fly, just because we get back to the whole waiting period thing again, this time until a newbie is "recognized" as "good enough" to post in the "serious forums". I agree with Tony R's comment with regard to the prog lounge as well. Also, when a senior member starts a "dumb thread" in a serious lounge, I think it's better moved to the correct forum instead of being altogether deleted, unless, of course, it deals with illegal matters, etc (which is how the forums currently work). (Kind of off-topic: I have a minor issue with phrasing of one forum categorization: "Prog Music Lounge" being in the "Progressive Music Lounges" - it leads to occasional confusion with people's meanings in postsStern%20Smile)

d) Although it sounds very good in principal, I question how practical it would be to have every newbie's performance reviewed by an admin to get an upgrade (and "personality" and "something to say" are oh-so subjective Wink). That would be extremely time-consuming, and that type of work already seems to be done in assigning collaborators (including yourself).

e) Oh, come now, giving up your title so eagerly? What nobility LOL!

Overall, I like your idealism, but I don't think it would all fly for most members of this site (including the higher-ups)...
It'd be quite an overhaul, too, wouldn't it?

Hell... I'm still waiting to see if we can even have a pop-up reminder for the use of the search engine!LOL


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2008 at 06:51
I remember joining this forum some 4 years ago, at the time I merely came here to have some fun, exchange some jokes and sometimes get involved in serious debate. But with restrictions the barrier of getting involved in the site and forum is higher and that will scare visitors away. I used the forum for fun and reviews to add to the site content.
 
I know for older members it get's tiresome to read all those rehashed threads about subjects we've been discussing for ages now, but you can also ignore these threads (I know I don't since I think for newbies it's a nice way to get into their caracter as forum poster, so these are just rites of passage into the more indebt threads).
 
Personally I think if it isn't broke don't fix it, and this forum isn't broke, it just needs some occasional push into better subjects.
 
Threads like this are helpfull for that, just like any thread that focussis on improvement of the site. But you can't expect newbies to be involved enough to immediatly start with these serious issues, let them find their friends and people to talk to first, and yes that takes some time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2008 at 09:18
Good points, Tuxon. I'm sure most of us originally joined (and to some degree stay here) "to have some fun," and there's nothing wrong with that.
Originally posted by tuxon tuxon wrote:

Personally I think if it isn't broke don't fix it, and this forum isn't broke, it just needs some occasional push into better subjects.

Yep. in case you haven't read through the whole thread, my original (as laplace puts these things) "fascist" idea has been laid to rest. Really, at the time, I was frustrated probably as a result of personal stresses and just a few repeat threads and new trolls I saw. Throughout the thread it has become a matter of featuring a simple "pop-up", like the ones for when we vote or submit a review, that indicates how to use the search and a reminder to do so when any member creates a new thread. A simple measure that in all likelihood will yield positive results.

(Hopefully you admins haven't forgotten about itWink)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2008 at 16:16
Segregating noob posts mightn't be a bad idea.  Perhaps a series of trials could be set for those who want full membership to the site.  There could be a sort of boot camp to make sure that only the toughest, smartest, and most obsequious gain access.

Could start with them having to do exams to see if they should be accepted into the site as Noobs.

Then have a boot camp (Noob Boot Camp Forum) run by Tony R, The Progtologist, Ivan, Micky, Peter and others as part of the trial process.  Tony R and the Progtologist would be the drill Sergeants (are they tough enough?), Ivan would provide the evil blue font of death test, Peter would check grammar and juvenility of noob posts, and Micky would barrage them with haahas.  This would be a hidden forum to all but noobs and those staff.

The nest step would be more fun for those that don't get booted from boot camp.  A post you stupid noob topics forum where they could have a free rein to run wild with their idiocy.

Next would be formal warning for their idiocy in the stupid noob topics forum.

Next would be finishing school where they would be taught the finer points of PA etiquette I think Atkingani, EL, and Raff could host those

The next step would be general hazing in a Noob Taunting Forum, where all non-noobs could humiliate them.

Then, for those that survive, a welcome forum where they would be welcomed with open arms.  But perhaps there should be 6 month probation period before they are generally treated with respect, and can be suspended for even the smallest infractions.

or something like that. ;)
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laplace View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2008 at 17:24
I'm being lampooned ;P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2008 at 19:08
I like the pop-up idea. I'm sure you'd get a couple of whiny posts about it every now and then, but it'd also encourage a bit more thought for individual threads.

Logan, you've missed the rival 'The Gates Of Delirium, TAAB and Supper's Ready Only'-poll forums where they can have massive arguments to everyone else's amusement until they understand that Tarkus is the best.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2008 at 20:52
Wow, great post there, Logan Clap. Forgive the expression, but I lol'd.

TGM, you must be mistaken: Tarkus isn't one of the parts of Karn Evil 9 Wink


Edited by ClassicRocker - March 17 2008 at 20:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2008 at 22:41
having your twenty-third conversation about "Who Started it All?" or "What is Progressive?" can be okay if it's been awhile and the new member is intelligent


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2008 at 04:55
Very useful disucssion.
 
Keep prompting on this, things may not happen quickly but the ideas may well lead to changes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2008 at 06:12
Laplace's suggestions:
 
a) Post count disappearing (or not being visible) might be a solution. Keep the stars, though. Another solution is having the post count only in the profile, not on every post.
 
b) I'm not sure this is wise to open up to visitors. We must be able to get an idea of detecting when a troll is being booted that he's not coming back under a new name, so registration is necessary. This is also the minimum to be done so as that we insure ourselves that the people posting have at least a minimal interest in posting here.
I have no reservations on the rest of your suggestion in this point.
 
c) Like Tony, I don't see why the mounge should be restyricted. We applied a restriction to Blogs, because the subjects discussed require a certain amount of up-keeping by the blog starters.
 
d) This is the way it was done via the reviews written. And I think that was when we happenede to recruit some of our best collabs. I know that some collabs have been recruited without much reviewing and solely on their forum participation, which doesn't pose a problem with me. But I also know of a few who intrigued to reviewer/collab status, just to take a look at behind the scenes and never posted again soon after. I can't recall any names, though.
 
e) Naah!! Keep your title , this job is important
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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