King Crimson and Tool similarities

I think you'd be a lot better off doing King Crimson and The Mars Volta. A much clearer lineage.

Chickbass wrote: Ok moshkito... I’m sorry if I have misunderstood your comments (English is not my first language) but I don’t understand why you are commenting on this post it you does not even bother to listen to Tool. There are quite many similarities between these two bands and that’s what I’m after. But you can’t say that Tool can not be "themselves" when they are looking at something else. Everyone gets inspiration from someone else. Even King Crimson! Unless they are living under a rock their whole life…everyone takes ideas form other people. But that don’t make them lesser than others! I hope I haven’t offended you.

The reason I cannot buy into this theory has to do with what I have played, written and performed over the last 3 and a half decades. No offense to Tool. Happy Family and many others have displayed their influences of King Crimson for many years. I personally feel that people confuse the term influence with something else which is defined as practices that have to do more so with cheating. There is the gothic tri-tone influence of Crimson in Univers Zero. Technically according to the definition of what modes or reflections they apply but, Univers Zero has their own original way of adapting it so the listener doesn't confuse them with clones.

I honestly don't see very much KC influence in Tool. I will say that Adam Jones has some similarities To Fripp,s  guitar style because he uses very unique effects on the guitar much like fripp does but like i said they're more similarities between the two than one influencing the other.

well, KC and Tool both spend large stretches of song weaving textural accompaniment to an off-beat singer who sings somewhat vague or esoteric or silly lyrics. both bands have somewhat experimental drummers who can get explorative when it helps deepen a song.

then again, King Crimson delve into weird and wonderful sequences of chords where Tool are happier obeying a single minor key for the sake of rock. King Crimson are happy being dissonant and exhausting to the listener while Tool tend to chug pleasantly. King Crimson albums usually have a few surprises or deviation from the band's typical sound whereas Tool are more consistent, again for the sake of rock.

I can't prove that any of it is influence by one on another but there are certainly similarities there.

thechrisl wrote: Yeah, I think if you take elements of 80's Crimson and apply the heaver Tool arrangements that's where the influence is most apparent. I think one could do a great paper on the influence 80's Crimson had on many other New Wave-ish bands of that decade (Talking Heads, Police, etc.).

Agreed.  I had always heard about the supposed connections between Tool and King Crimson, then I listened to "Three Of A Perfect Pair" and it all made sense.  That album is a prototype template for most of Tool's discography.

I hope you're done with your paper by now. (What grade did you get on it?)

I agree that the sound of KC of the 80's has some connection with Tool's music. As a clear example listen "The Howler" from Beat and is very similar to the riff on Tool's "Schism".

I realise this thread's getting a little old, but I thought I'd add my two pennies worth, as I'm a fan of both Tool and (more recently) King Crimson.

 For me, there is a clear Crimson inspiration in Tool's music, even if it's not obvious when you first compare the two. There are a few points of similarity which I think bear mentioning:

- From the 70s Crimson period, there is the juxtapositioning of heavy rock sections with softer atmospheric sections, all within the context within a single song. An example of this is In The Court Of The Crimson King. Compare how the song bounces back and forth between those epic, understatedly heavy swells, and the acoustic interludes which periodically break up the song (with some proggy noodles in there for good measure). While in terms of pure sound, Tool are very different, they often do similar things in their songs such as The Grudge or Lateralus: both those tunes alternate between thunderous riffing sections and softer sections that focus more on atmosphere. The effect on the tune is much the same as with 70s Crimson, even if the sound is markedly different.

- From the 80s Crimson, we have the heavy emphasis on polyrhythms, and songs which are shorter, yet structured more intricately than the oftentimes sprawling and somewhat freeform nature of the 70s Crimson. Whereas a 70s Crimson song would often feature every member going off and doing their own thing (with still wonderful results), the 80s songs were more notable in how every band member tightly played off what each other was doing, often over a very tricky rhythmical idea. For an example, listen to Discipline, off the album of the same name. It kicks open with a tricksy guitar riff in 5/4, and is joined soon after with both bass and drums that interlock and give the song a tight, almost funky feel, despite its basis in a tricky 'uneven' time signature. Compare to Vicarious by Tool: again it opens with a tricksy riff in 5/4 (though this time with both bass and guitar), and is soon propelled into a storming rock section by the addition of Danny Carey's thunderous drums. The two songs share very similar ideas: pentatonic riffs in odd time signatures, defined by how the various instruments come together to create an intricate whole.

- Thirdly, and most importantly, Crimson have clearly inspired Tool in how they carry a progressive mentality with them. With each album, Tool have further carved out their unique place in rock, refusing to allow themselves to be pidgeonholed into any one genre (I'm one of the few Tool fans who believes 10,000 Days to be a superior album to Lateralus, but that's for another thread). Be it adding tabla drums to Disposition from Lateralus, experimenting with Industrial sounds on Aenima, or dabbling with all-out electronica on Intension from 10,000 Days, Tool have shown time and again that they're not afraid of bringing in left-field influences and adding them to their brand of prog metal. This mentality, and willingness to experiment, more than anything I think shows the profound influence King Crimson has had on Tool.

 I should clarify that this point that in no way do I think Tool are ripping off Crimson. While they share a lot of similarities, Tool are fundamentally different in how they take those proggy ideas from the 70s and 80s (not just from Crimson, but from other bands as well), and filter them through an alternative rock/metal sound. In combining the prog of yesterday with the sounds of metal from today, they've managed to come up with a sound that is truly unique. Just like King Crimson.

I joined up JUST to reply to thic comment. there is A LOT of King Crimson or "fripp" in tool.  A fn LOT. and by the way, Ive never heard one lil bit of a RUSH influence in TOOL. anyone else? Ive never understood the whole RUSH hard-on anyway... Everyone always votes Neil pert as best drummer alive... HA!   ....Give me Bill Bruford or even better Danny Carey any day of the WEEK!  back to the subject..guitarists..Go ask Adam Jones if the guy from rush influences his playing more than Fripp and watch him laugh his ass off. The Crimson King all day man. Go back to school or stop posting "rush" propigandii.  .

Crimson were cool, tool are crap. Zero composition=zero interest from me. Musicianship only takes me a small way

Edited by dr prog - October 17 2011 at 04:34