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Pelata
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2010
Location: NC-USA
Status: Offline
Points: 364
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 10:17 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
Pelata wrote:
The next thing you know, there are "bands" everywhere! |
Errm, NO. No band can get anywhere that fast, because the public only shows up when it hears actual quality. The fact that bands now have available a different model to record and release their music doesn't mean that the audiences have given up their demands.
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Errm, YES...have you seen the internet?  There are more "bands" (ie groups of people trying to sell their recorded music) online than there are insect species in the rain forest.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 10:21 |
Pelata wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Pelata wrote:
The next thing you know, there are "bands" everywhere! |
Errm, NO. No band can get anywhere that fast, because the public only shows up when it hears actual quality. The fact that bands now have available a different model to record and release their music doesn't mean that the audiences have given up their demands.
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Errm, YES...have you seen the internet?  There are more "bands" (ie groups of people trying to sell their recorded music) online than there are insect species in the rain forest.
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So? Does that help them in any way if the music is not good?
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Pelata
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2010
Location: NC-USA
Status: Offline
Points: 364
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 10:27 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
Pelata wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Pelata wrote:
The next thing you know, there are "bands" everywhere! |
Errm, NO. No band can get anywhere that fast, because the public only shows up when it hears actual quality. The fact that bands now have available a different model to record and release their music doesn't mean that the audiences have given up their demands.
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Errm, YES...have you seen the internet?  There are more "bands" (ie groups of people trying to sell their recorded music) online than there are insect species in the rain forest.
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So? Does that help them in any way if the music is not good?
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No it doesn't. But "good" is relative to the listener AND too many bands means most of them will fall short of the intended goal of making a living playing music. People/audiences only have so much money to spend and they can't buy everything. The more bands there are, the smaller the percentage of them being able to successfully cultivate a loyal (paying) audience.
It's like opening a bar in a small town with 20 bars already there...people only have so much money to spend and just because you open a bar and people want to drink doesn't mean that Bar #21 will make it.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 10:35 |
But most of the bands who choose the alternative development model offer their music for free, there's no need to pay for their music. If there are bars with free drinks then people with flock to them. The only condition is to have the drinks just as good as in a regular bar - which is the real issue.
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Pelata
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2010
Location: NC-USA
Status: Offline
Points: 364
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 10:57 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
But most of the bands who choose the alternative development model offer their music for free, there's no need to pay for their music. If there are bars with free drinks then people with flock to them. The only condition is to have the drinks just as good as in a regular bar - which is the real issue. |
I see what you're saying. I am only stating that one reason the music scene has gotten as bad as it is overcrowding...too many bands reaching for the same plate of money and not enough audience to go around.
Of course if you offer your music for free, there's no harm and no foul. But offering it for free is kind of a moot point when even if you didn't people would still get it for free. The difference is you're just going into not expecting money for it.
AND
Offering it for free doesn't guarantee an audience. People can't take your free offer if they don't know you're there. To let them know that, you have to find a way to stand out amongst the thousands of other bands competing for people's attention.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 11:16 |
Pelata wrote:
[I am only stating that one reason the music scene has gotten as bad as it is overcrowding...too many bands reaching for the same plate of money and not enough audience to go around. |
I don't think that having more bands and a tougher competition is bad, but the contrary. From my perspective of an end user that's how I see it.
Pelata wrote:
Of course if you offer your music for free, there's no harm and no
foul. But offering it for free is kind of a moot point when even if you
didn't people would still get it for free. The difference is you're just
going into not expecting money for it. |
That may apply to major bands, but for new bands with no previous exposure you can't say that "people would still get their music for free".
Pelata wrote:
Offering it for free doesn't guarantee an audience. People can't
take your free offer if they don't know you're there. To let them know
that, you have to find a way to stand out amongst the thousands of other
bands competing for people's attention. |
By this time there are already channels of distribution for free music. Myself, like others, have subscribed to various net labels and blogs who disseminate quality free music. A small audience, indeed, or at least so far, but very well oriented.
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Pelata
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2010
Location: NC-USA
Status: Offline
Points: 364
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 11:36 |
I don't think that having more bands and a tougher competition is bad, but the contrary. From my perspective of an end user that's how I see it. |
Of course, in theory competition weeds out the weak (in this case the bad music).
But, too many bands to weed through can also cause "audience fatigue". Too many bands having easy access to recording equipment and the internet can quickly and easily tip the good to bad ratio sharply to the bad. It just makes the listener's job harder. Too many bad bands means that some of the good bands will sadly go unnoticed.
The listener's job gets harder having to wade through an ocean of bad music to find the good and the band's job gets harder trying to stand out in that ocean.
That may apply to major bands, but for new bands with no previous exposure you can't say that "people would still get their music for free". |
If a single CD is made and sold by a new band, then it's gonna get uploaded by somebody, somewhere. So whether this new band sells it or gives it away, many, many people will still get it for free.
By this time there are already channels of distribution for free music. Myself, like others, have subscribed to various net labels and blogs who disseminate quality free music. A small audience, indeed, or at least so far, but very well oriented. |
That sounds awesome! Small audiences are the way to go anyway, IMO. A small, core group of fans who love you for what you do and who can follow you through any changes or shifts you may go through as a musician. King's X is a great example of this.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5160
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 14:41 |
This is a very delicated subject and I'm afraid I do not have the answer either... here go some thoughts though:
Patronage was indeed common in the past, but I'm afraid it's not anymore for musicians. Nowadays we the audience are the patrons, whenever we pay for enjoying the work that the musicians have produced.
In the case of mainstream music, I'd guess CD albums could disappear quickly. It is based on songs not on albums, so most of its audience will be happy to live with radio airplay, 1-song download from iTunes etc. I do not see much future in people wanting to buy a Lady Gaga CD album of 70 minutes.
However for prog (and many other musical styles) it is quite different. I like to own the CD album, among other things because of the artwork, lyrics etc. Of course if you are patient you can also find and download these, but when you consider the time it takes you, at your average hourly rate, you find that it's cheaper to buy the original CD, and the quality is always better.
To those who say that illegal downloading will be made impossible by the future operating systems, it's likely to be so, but experience tells us that some backdoor will always be found. The question then is again that if the effort you have to make to get an illegal download is bigger than the cost of a new CD, then it looses all meaning.
I think free music must remain as a way to taste the music before you buy it, a promotional tool, which is very positive for the musicians, but if they and their industry are clever enough, they will always make it sure that the original CD (or whatever media it will be) will have enough attractive points as to make fans wanting to buy it.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 15:17 |
Not until we have those flying cars, I think we're well overdue.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Pelata
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2010
Location: NC-USA
Status: Offline
Points: 364
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 15:33 |
However for prog (and many other musical styles) it is quite different. I like to own the CD album, among other things because of the artwork, lyrics etc. Of course if you are patient you can also find and download these, but when you consider the time it takes you, at your average hourly rate, you find that it's cheaper to buy the original CD, and the quality is always better. |
I had a similar conversation on a Metal forum. Like Prog, Metal fans are a "physical product" audience. CDs/physical format will continue to exist in some form for these genres. I could care less if Lady Gaga or Justin Beiber went 100% digital...but the day I can't buy a new, underground Prog CD I've discovered will be a sad one.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5160
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 16:40 |
I think many bands have realised this and therefore they make an effort that the artwork, sleeve booklet etc are good, so that people will feel like wanting to own the original CD rather than dowloaded tracks. I guess it's a good thing for everybody.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: October 20 2010 at 01:24 |
Internet just provided a need for a different bussiness model than that of the 70's to 90's.
I think Marillion created a nice niche for themselves, mostly because of a loyal fanbase and enough word-of-mouth and being famous enough to pull it off.
lesser known bands need to accept that they are not going to make much money from their hobby (that's how most bands start you know). we can't all make millions selling records.
If you are any good maybe it's worth just giving your music away for free, just so you can create a fanbase big enough to create money from merchandise/touring/selling records. If you are not any good please don't give your music away for free as you are wasting peoples time and getting in the way of serious artists.
anyway.
The future as I see it will be with free music, and more merchandising, and probably with more advertisement around legal free music sites. and artist will still be ripped off as they always have been.
Only the really big acts will make money, just like in the good old days when most bands were just hobbyist incidentally getting a little fame and than return to their hobby without getting rich off it.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Theriver
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2010
Location: Lisbon Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 181
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Posted: October 20 2010 at 22:41 |
What about downloading movies, we don't hear as many people says it will kill the cimena industry. Watching movies on dvs and vhs is relitavely a new thing ( mid 80s?) but cinema did exixt before and hollywood was huge before those supports. I am sure some people said it would be the end of cinema when tv channels decided to broadcast some.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: October 21 2010 at 00:01 |
Looks like.
But there will always be the hardcore fans that will donate, either by purchasing the physical thing or sending in money.
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Marty McFly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 3968
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Posted: October 21 2010 at 05:30 |
I think that in future, more and more artists will self-release, so album's cost will drastically decrease. But the artists themselves will still get about the same money as they were receiving before.
Promotion, paying all these people in music business, expensive recording sessions, fees ...
Some of these costs are important, but most of them aren't.
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: October 21 2010 at 06:04 |
Here's my take on what the future of music will be:
Serious artists will more and more shift towards making money from performing or selling their music themselves. They'll also record, produce and promote the music themselves, cutting out the middle men. Many of them will have regular jobs and record music in their spare time. As technology continues to improve, it will take less and less time and money to record high quality music, so musicians will depend less on how much money they make with albums. Consider Spock's Beard's latest album, or Maudlin of the Well's last album - 20 years ago it would not have been feasible for a band to produce such high quality music on such small budgets. Today it is, and this paves the way for a generation of musicians that don't plan their future in accordance with how many thousands or millions of albums they sell.
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Pelata
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2010
Location: NC-USA
Status: Offline
Points: 364
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Posted: October 21 2010 at 12:12 |
Theriver wrote:
What about downloading movies, we don't hear as many people says it will kill the cimena industry. Watching movies on dvs and vhs is relitavely a new thing ( mid 80s?) but cinema did exixt before and hollywood was huge before those supports. I am sure some people said it would be the end of cinema when tv channels decided to broadcast some. |
Every DVD I've rented in the last 5 years has a short film included in the previews that talks about how pirating DVDs is stealing and how it hurts the movie industry. It's just not as widespread or convenient as sharing/downloading music.
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