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Topic ClosedDoes a musicians personal stuff affect you?

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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 08:37
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

Not a musician but Roman Polanski's actions make it harder for me to enjoy his movies. He is definitely a talented filmmaker, I think "The Pianist" is one of the best movies I've seen, but it's hard for me to forget what Polanski did. 
So there's actually evidence against him?
Are you being serious?
He was tried and convicted of unlawful intercourse with a 13 yo girl - a conviction he plea-bargained after being charged with "rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14" - he fled the USA before he could be sentenced and has been on the run for over 35 years. He is a fugitive from justice.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 08:48
I still can fully enjoy Polanski's movies. It is the guy himself I consider an idiot and whom i have little respect for as a person. And of course I have little respect for those who excuse his actions just because he's quite a great director. In this case it is easier to separate person from his art production. Cinema, as personal as it can be, is rarely as personal as music. The director is the main creative man but there are too many other people involved in making a movie.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 10:45
^I can never forgive Leni Riefenstahl for Triumph Of The Will, even though, technically speaking, it was a marvel and ahead of it's time
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 11:19
^She was paid for a service and she quite grandly performed it (the movie it's outstanding even though in hindsight we know the atrocities caused by its "protagonists"). I don't have a problem with that. Now, if Himmler had composed a symphony or something THAT would be a situation where we would probably not jump to sing its praises. But Leni was a filmmaker and in Nazi Germany there was either the nazi way or the road to nowhere. It's too easy to judge I think. I might be wrong though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 14:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

Not a musician but Roman Polanski's actions make it harder for me to enjoy his movies. He is definitely a talented filmmaker, I think "The Pianist" is one of the best movies I've seen, but it's hard for me to forget what Polanski did. 
So there's actually evidence against him?

Are you being serious?
He was tried and convicted of unlawful intercourse with a 13 yo girl - a conviction he plea-bargained after being charged with "rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14" - he fled the USA before he could be sentenced and has been on the run for over 35 years. He is a fugitive from justice.
 
 
Well, I don't know jack s$&t about the case. Who knows; maybe he was wrongfully convicted, framed. I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, I'm serious.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 14:33
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

Not a musician but Roman Polanski's actions make it harder for me to enjoy his movies. He is definitely a talented filmmaker, I think "The Pianist" is one of the best movies I've seen, but it's hard for me to forget what Polanski did. 
So there's actually evidence against him?

Are you being serious?
He was tried and convicted of unlawful intercourse with a 13 yo girl - a conviction he plea-bargained after being charged with "rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14" - he fled the USA before he could be sentenced and has been on the run for over 35 years. He is a fugitive from justice.
 
 
Well, I don't know jack s$&t about the case. Who knows; maybe he was wrongfully convicted, framed. I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, I'm serious.
You really should do some background searching before making these glib comments then. With the Internet there is no excuse for knowing nothing and still managing to say something.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 15:28
People make glib comments (and ask glib questions) every day. I can't think of one person who is an exception to this rule.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 21 2013 at 15:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 16:04
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

People make glib comments (and ask glib questions) every day. I can't think of one person who is an exception to this rule.
Few make a habit of it though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 16:11
Well, they haven't come around my place and left anything with me...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 17:09
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

^She was paid for a service and she quite grandly performed it (the movie it's outstanding even though in hindsight we know the atrocities caused by its "protagonists"). I don't have a problem with that. Now, if Himmler had composed a symphony or something THAT would be a situation where we would probably not jump to sing its praises. But Leni was a filmmaker and in Nazi Germany there was either the nazi way or the road to nowhere. It's too easy to judge I think. I might be wrong though.
Yeah, it's a situation in the arts that makes one think, doesn't it? What you have said is interesting and thought provoking. I have no trouble listening to music concerts from Nazi Germany (Bruckner and Beethoven symphonies) as i feel they were "a light in the darkness", especially those concerts of Furtwangler, who was trying to beat the Nazis from within. The Germans have always embraced music in troubled times in a really noble fashion, and those concerts typify that.

Edited by presdoug - May 21 2013 at 17:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 19:31
^Also remember that, dictatorial as they were, when Triumph of the Will was made the Nazis hadn't done 1/1000th of the damage they would do starting around 1938-9. At that point in time, besides their obvious anti-semitism (that at this point was more words than actions) and their little affection for democracy (not that everybody loved it in the 30s in Europe), nobody could have imagined what they would do and become, so making a film for them wasn't necessarily morally objectionable.

If the same film would have been made after 1945 we would of course judge it quite differently.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 20:10
More people should have read Mein Kampf. Those early years of Nazism are not divorced from the realities that came later on. They helped to pave the way for what happened later. That is why Triumph Of The Will tends to make me uneasy. The cogs in the Nazi wheel were turning slowly at first, but they were turning, nonetheless. They still used violence, murder and intimidation as tactics pre Triumph Of The Will, look at the staged Reichstag fire and resultant Roehm purge of 1934.

Edited by presdoug - May 21 2013 at 20:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2013 at 20:31
Um, back to topic.  
I usually can enjoy all music regardless of personal lives or beliefs, however, if the artist has a gross violation of my moral code, I probably won't support the artist.  On a different note, I tend to have a very personal connection to the music I listen to, and, if at some point there is a controversy or problem with the artist, listening to their music might grieve me, and I will usually go without it (As I Lay Dying anybody?).
I think this all depends on how we view music.  Many people, like me, cannot detach the music from the artist, and we might react to the music based on the musicians life and emotions rather than our own.  Others can listen to music and not care about the person behind the music, they only see the notes and the harmonies.   Thirdly, others make songs their own.  They import their own emotions and impute them to the music, sometimes ignoring true meaning.  
Broken teeth, a shattered jaw
Ten to one, behold my God
Wicked sons of Heaven’s loss
Raise your own inverted cross

Storm the Gates of Hell-Demon Hunter


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2013 at 17:01
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

...
Kiddy-fiddlers? No thanks. Murderers? No thanks. Wife-beaters? No thanks. Neo-nazis? No thanks. Racists? No thanks. Bigots? No thanks. Drug-peddlers? No thanks. There is plenty more great music out there.
 
Agreed and then some.
 
With that said, the history of the arts has a lot of things that are not exactly ... G-Rated, and many of them became well known in their time. Jean Genet would be an example, and he influenced film, theater and literature to no end, but then, so did Picasso in two ways with Guernica, that a lot of people didn't like for many years, and many people thought was sick! And it was a literal photograph of the life in Spain outside his window, during the Spanish Civil War ... right between the two World Wars ... and then, some folks got terribly offended with Salvador Dali, and his visual documentation of dream images in his first two films with Luis Bunuel!
 
Rock music, is not different than anything else. The ONLY difference is that "arts" these days in the music area is a group, and not a single person ... and sometimes I think that we would not accept it because of that!
 
This is the thing that is weird for me, though ... I did not enjoy in the old days, listening to anyone doing "sweet little sixteen", and thought it was nasty ... and it fit the description above of the fiddlers ... but we never got mad at Chuck Berry, and he had a very large collection of pornography ... the same kind that Pete Townsend got busted for ... DOUBLE STANDARD!
 
I prefer not to discuss, the music that Dean mentions, or what would normally be considered "bad" stuff. Generally, too much of that discussion is good today, and bad tomorrow in a different government, and you are seeing that in Africa and many countries in the Middle East ... the past everyone, is always a criminal! And it blurrs the whole thing terribly, and to the point where we get so confused, and unable to make a proper determination.
 
DON'T FORGET, that the MEDIA, today, helps this stuff come alive. Many years ago, you never learned about most of it until too late, or until it was over ... and that makes a difference on our judgement ... today we can make a call on these things, way faster than we ever could 50 years ago. Art, Literature and Music were one way that you also learned a lot of this!  But it's hard to explain to you guys what it meant to have a gun pulled to your head to shut up the famous dad from writing "freedom" poetry ... many years before Candle in the Wind! But you don't give a sh*t ... and that part is just as bad as all that Dean has mentioned, and you have to relate and understand that first! The "freedom" is the one thing that helps prevent all those things Dean has mentioned ... NEVER forget that! Without it, most of that gets hidden! But there are abuses, in either way you look at it!
 
So, in a sense, the question is the same as me asking you if you believed anyone at PA because of this or that ... and in the end ... all you are doing is distorting the whole picture even more, and sometimes even trying to discredit something that is valuable instead of otherwise!
 
It's not like we all do not have closets or some skellies in there ... without the Bernard Herrman music!


Edited by moshkito - June 02 2013 at 14:33
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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