S. Wilson not progressive rock?
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Topic: S. Wilson not progressive rock?
Posted By: rdtprog
Subject: S. Wilson not progressive rock?
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 15:15
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Steven Wilson doesn't believe that there is bands that are making Progressive Rock music today. He believe that this concept of Progressive Rock music was relevant only in the 70's. He seems to think that Progressive Rock music had to be innovative to be called like this. He admits that himself take his influences from various styles and add his personal style to it. This subject has been talk here before and i was not sure if Mr. Wilson was right with those statements, but today i think he could be right. But it's not the essence of Progressive Rock music to be innovative or is it that there is not enough strong personalities that make this kind of music? ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Replies:
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 15:20
| This falls into the Progressive vs Prog debate, but if the current king of Prog has this view, than it shouldn't it be headed? |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 15:32
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It's like some artists don't like to have the tag "Progressive Rock" under their name like it was some kind of disease. They seems to think that Progressive is a limited genre. They should look at the PA database to see that there is more than only typical Prog here. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 15:34
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he's not... I could have told you that. Time to DQ his album from the PA's album contest then!!   ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 15:40
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we could do a contest, for people that can find 5 artists past the 90's on this site that are as innovative as the big 5 of the 70's. I am sure we can have some answers. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 15:43
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So... by this same logic, Joe Bonamassa is not blues? ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 15:45
I suppose one could come up with scores of them. Problem is most all of them are not likely to be on the radar of 'prog fan' as their music has evolved away from prog rock. Innovate means to progress.. and that means often progressing away from the cliched moth eaten stylistic norms of prog rock. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
rdtprog wrote:Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 15:46
He is too young for that, he's making modern blues which is as bad as modern prog, says Mr. Wilson ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 16:15
Yes, i agree, Prog Rock is only one genre related to all kind of Progressive Music, that's why Prog is associated with others genre, like jazz, folk, electronic etc. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 17:11
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He's prog rock in my book and Bonnamassa is blues in my book. The idea that you have to be Muddy Waters to be called the blues or Yes to be called prog rock is well.....stupid. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 17:15
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Wilson has flip-flopped his views on what Prog is so many times, all most likely on a pretext of what he thinks will get him the most sales, that anything he says on the subject is to be taken as nonsens and not to be trusted. Over the 10 years I've been on this site I've seen many, many threads on the subject of what Steven Wilson considers prog and the only thing I'm left wondering is why anyone gives this midocre musician and song writers opinion the time of day? ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 17:23
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What is porg? This is porg: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=porg" rel="nofollow - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=porg This is your brain on porg:   ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 17:24
This. So much this.  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 17:29
for that...I'll almost forgive you for your past Yes comments ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 18:08
Well... the press and fans make him bigger than he is, you make him smaller. Thus, it averages out, and whether or not he considered himself prog, and which of the 10,000 definitions of prog he has in mind is ir-elephant. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: DKoshino
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 18:25
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He changed of opinion after some years, isn't? At least, seems like he enjoys his title of "king of prog" by working so hard to make his music as proggy as possible. Also, he said something about being glad that there's more innovative bands such as The Mars Volta and Radiohead (also prog not-so-prog bands). Whatever, I like the music, but he as a person I feel indifferent. I like to think about the fact that two of my favorite prog bands are Porcupine Tree and The Flower Kings (remember the argument Wilson and Stolt had?), so I can laugh at them staying together on my list. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 22:29
Agree and was thinking the same thing---I like his latest albums a great deal because it sounds like 5 or 6 of the greatest 70's prog bands. Yes he put his touch on the sound but still he may not think it's prog but he's stolen from the best prog.
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Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 22:39
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Every band will be placed in some genre. And every genre except the extreme boundaries of music will have a set example of what it is. Prog is no exception. I like Steven Wilson's 90s work and a bit of modern Porcupine Tree, but the man can have a superiority complex sometimes. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 27 2015 at 23:00
If Wilson wanted to work to get him the most sales, he wouldn't have done an album like The Raven... nor Hand Cannon Erase, or Grace for Drowning for that matter. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 02:58
Well said. Bonamassa is making some of the best blues ever made and some modern prog is up there with that from the 70s. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 03:17
For me personally, as long as Mr Wilson recorded songs like Routine, he will be a prog artist. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 03:29
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 04:26
| Whoever says that Steven Wilson is NOT Prog (I know he doesn't agree) needs their head read....... |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 04:41
S. Wilson think that in the 70's, the big bands (ELP, Genesis and...) were making music by combining jazz, rock, folk music together like some hybrid music. That's what innovative and while he doesn't call his music progressive, he think his music his innovative because of his personality. It's like he saying that there's not enough strong personalities in the Progressive Rock music today, and only bands like Mars Volta, Radiohead, Massive Attack are doing something innovative with their music today. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 05:22
| Maybe in his mind there's nothing 'Progressive' in today's music. He may have a point, but his deft touch and gifted intelligence surely offers many current artists a crash-course in modern, innovative music. He certainly knows how to assemble a band of virtuosic musicians that understand what he's getting at....... |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 05:32
Yes, i could just see him in 10 years or so with his glasses and barefoot teaching music to gifted musicians and telling people how Prog is dead but creative music is still possible... ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 06:22
What other reason would he have fighting tooth and nail against the "prog" tag during the 90's, when it was still considered a dirty word and commercial suicide, only to do a complete 180 in the mid 2000's and embrace it whole heartedly when it was becoming seen as somewhat cool again. Wilson knew how to grow his fan base to a reasonable level so that he could support himself as a professional musician without compromising his music, and that ment spending nearly 2 decades disancing himself from prog and it's fans, even if prog fans knew he was lieying through his teeth. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 10:52
Got it.
Agreed. ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 11:00
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When I interviewed Steven Wilson a week prior to PT's U.S. tour for In Absentia, he stated that labels are just that, labels that people feel they need to classify music for themselves, but that he didn't believe in labels. Asked then, how he would describe his music in a few words to someone who'd never heard it, he mused for a few seconds and replied, "Intelligent rock." ------------- PROGMATIC |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 13:19
That works for me......'intelligent rock'. Some one above said his comments were nonsense....imo that comment above is nonsense. Wilson is very intelligent and like all of us our ideas change and evolve. We can't even agree half of the time on this forum who and what prog rock is. And his music certainly is not mediocre (which is not spelled with an i btw  ) or he wouldn't be where he is with the prog buying public, his peers, and sales in general.------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 13:21
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 13:26
LMAO!!! I could be wrong.. but I would bet my paycheck Andy was completely sh*t faced when he typed that earlier post. Not that he was wrong mind you... but he normally is an impeccable writer. As soon as I saw that post, ahh...on a Saturday night.. I figured he just got back from the pub saw this thread... and finally well... you know.. lost it http://s5.photobucket.com/user/magnification01/media/index_zpsrt0zcvqu.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 15:54
Actually I'd only had the one pint of cider at that point! I'm just tired of the incessent hero worship he gets and the fact people feel the need to discuss every view he spews forth as if it was remotely worth the time of day, particularly for someone that changes his opinion at the dop of a hat on a fairly regular basis and has a history of being less than sincere with them (I'm not jocking here, there were interviews from around the time of Fear of a Blank Planets release where he literally said that he was now happy to publicly align himself as a "prog artist" because it didn't hold the stigma it used to, whilst admiting he knew he was all along.). For me the worst of it is that I would describe everything he's ever done (at least up to Fear..., I have sworn off wasting my money on him since) as decidedly average, In Absentia aside, and will never understand what others see in his music.
Nice of you to take a quote from an old review of mine out of context. He's not a bad lyricist, it's one of the few areas where I have no complaints about him (sound engineering/production being the other main one that he has absolutely nailed) but then lyrics are rarely high up my priority list when considering music. You will of course note and remember to tell everyone that it comes from a review of an album I gave 2 stars to and find mind numbingly boring, maybe I should have said lyricist/composer to avoid any misinterpretation but I would have hoped people on here would recognise that a "song" is more than just it's lyrics but the music that goes with them as well. @Micky. I'm completely sober tonight, I promise! And thanks for the excellent meme, have saved that and will definitely be making good use of it! ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 21:58
Well, I may not like that attitude, but in the end the music is what's most important. And if he didn't compromise his music, and did what he really wanted, and I like what he did, well, that's the most important part of it. |
Posted By: Komandant Shamal
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 01:02
IDM sounds like a stupid term for me also.
But i can understand that it was way before the term "post-progressive" was "officially" invented by Kscope records, the term that perfectly define his stuff IMHO.
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 01:30
prog music goes beyond being innovative, it's more complex compared to what Steven Wilson said, he missed the ball here. First of all in that case all music notes already have been discovered thus the 70's were only a different or new approach to them. Also prog music is a term named to guide us and others to listen to this specific genre which we much prefer.
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 01:49
| has good as he may be he is ruining it by becoming very snotty. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 02:18
We would miss the great Porcupine Tree - Steven Wilson finale then  |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 03:19
| There's a Nick Beggs interview where he says Wilson calls his music 'Post-Modern Industrial Jazz' (or words to that effect). |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 03:24
'Post-Modern Industrial Jazz' ? especially the word industrial sounds odd, weird even and very presumptuous while not making much sense really.   big hug to you, Tom  |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 03:30
!!I can't find that interview, but maybe he said 'experimental' - not 'industrial'.......that would make more sense
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 03:40
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Jazz? Surely he meant it as a joke? Maybe he has an aversion towards his music being tagged. Feels that any tag is limiting his music, and is turning away audience that might not like prog in the classic sense of the word, but might like his music. To me his "post-modern experimental jazz" description sounds just like a non-tag, saying: don't push me and my music in a little box.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 05:09
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^ I'd say that's what he's getting at
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Posted By: ginodi
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 10:11
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Steven Wilson can say he isn't a Prog musician, this and that, and it doesn't matter to me, for he is in the thick of it. Fighting tags or being labelled? Lots of musicians voice the same opinion depending upon what they play. It amuses me, that despite the overtly critical bashing he receives by some that can't even put a song together (I wish I could do a quarter what he has done--I would be so content), none of it has swayed my high opinion of the guy. I have seen quite a few interviews he has given through different stages of his career, and it doesn't matter whether he shifted opinions here and there...makes me wonder what kind of stupid things I might utter should I have been lucky enough to live the lifestyle I wish I could have (and damn, if I didn't try--like a few of us, perhaps). Rips off older music (that has been going on forever, though I prefer "variations on former themes")? Mediocre musician (he is selling, and money in the bank is what determines a continued career, and I wouldn't even think of giving a thought that he is mediocre)? Albums ranked too high (maybe it isn't the stuff you prefer. I don't think Rush is the greatest thing in the world, but I listen to them)? If you don't like the guy because he comes off as a tosspot to you, well... then you can have that opinion. I wish I had found this site years ago. I check it a few times per day because Prog has been my favorite music since I was a mid-teenager in the seventies, and I keep finding great stuff to purchase that I never knew existed. I have tried introducing this site to several friends, but the big battle is my disdain for cookie-cutter pop music, and that is where I lose most of them, but I will continue to promote.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 11:26
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My own pet peeve with Wilson's solo output is his never ending borrowing of prog motifs from his myriad of past prog heroes. And perhaps this has finally caught up with his desire to be truly innovative, and hence, his current stance on progressive rock.If so, I know a sure fire cure. Get back together with the last incarnation of PT and let your imagines run wild, Mr. Wilson. These are the people that can truly inspire you, and forget about labels.
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Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 13:04
| The fact: Mr. Wilson knows his music is pretty simple, and respect the oldschool prog. But to promote his easy music, he just throw up this "nothing innovative today" concept, as his works are just what we need for now. I think he should try something underground or avant-garde instead of prog influenced crossover pop like himself. |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 13:52
On past interviews, Wilson has said that his main project right now is his solo career and that he would probably write something again with PT, but don't think he can let his imagination go wild with the band, because there is one guy in the band that hate jazz music and Mr.Wilson would like to introduce jazz in PT. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 14:08
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^I'm not a particular fan of Wilson but I'm trying to be constructive. I have enormous respect for his technical ability and I believe that his love of prog is as sincere as any member of PA. Unfortunately, prog music, like anything else, is reduced to categories and some feel that the round peg must fit the round hole, and it seems that Wilson himself has got caught up up in this madness. If you enjoy his present output, take heart and give Mr. Wilson a chance with his "experimental jazz" venture, assuming it's true, as you might just like it. Different artists approach different genres differently and something new from Wilson might actually blow your mind.
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 14:25
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I think it's more important to be original than "innovative". If i want to listen to innovative music i will listen to other genres then Progressive Rock. That's why i understand what Wilson says when he think that many bands today are taking influences from past music, and it's not a bad thing, but it's what you can make with those influences that could be interesting. Wilson talk about personality, statement that could sound a bit pretentious when it's your solo career, but at least he has the intelligence to brings some great musicians with him to help him realize his ideas. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 15:04
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A lot of good comments. Having come through prog's 'wilderness years, where we, the fans, and many heroic bands and artists, kept the flame flickering without any airplay or magazines to cover it....I remember when artists definitely distanced themselves from the 'prog' label for commercial reasons, even if we knew they definitely were (not least because the prog rock church has always been wide enough to accommodate those on the edge). I remember reading an interview in 'Classic Rock' magazine when Steven Wilson distanced himself from the prog label (around the 'Stupid Dream' period at the end of the 90s, I think?) Steve Hogarth did the same thing in another issue - quite stridently as I remember (although all those requests for 'Grendel' at shows rather than his own compositions could turn anyone bitter, I suppose). Thankfully it never stopped me following them and judging their output as prog by my definition - and damn fine stuff too. I was pleasantly amused as both lightened up in recent years and gave their blessing to the prog revival and their willingness to accept the awards and exposure in the likes of 'Prog' magazine etc. Steven's an artist who rightly would love his music to be listened to by a wider audience - and the Pyramid Stage at Glastonbury even. You can't blame him for trying to get the 'alt' BBC Radio 1/6 audience. If he keeps making music, whatever he calls it, I'm happy. I'll forgive him any 'tortured artist' indulgences from time to time.
------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 15:09
Simply put this is Steven Wilson for me. What he believes is his own business, it's his music he can call it what he likes, certainly many of us call it what we like. Maybe "we" want it to be progressive rock, because there is no progressive substance in today's prog rock, again at least many on this site feel this way. We are looking for that artist to bring back the 70's...... Steven Wilson stated The Raven was that album that he wanted to sound like 70's prog. GFD also had that psychedelic prog feel, whereas HCE is more accessible and some songs have a pop/rock feel to them. Seeing him live 2 weeks ago was a magnificent experience, he is very articulate, he introduced and gave background on almost each song. When he spoke of Lazarus and how when it first came out it was labeled a sell-out song because people said it sounded like Coldplay...some in the crowd booed and he said "what you don't like Coldplay? I think they are ok..." But everyone in the crowd went nuts when they played the song, it has held up amazingly within the prog rock community which Steven said he is very proud of that song. All prog websites will label him progressive rock, we as prog music lovers will label him as a progressive rock artist.....Crossover seems to be the main emphasis of music today, at least in my mind, that's what it all sounds like to me. On stage he called himself a "rock and roll band", anything beyond that is an opinion it seems. Regardless it's great music and he is pretty darn good at all he does. -------------   
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 15:40
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^ That's not fair, Jose. Lazarus is one of the most moving songs ever put out by any band of any genre. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: progrockdeepcuts
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 17:26
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I dig his music and that's all I really care about. Genres are kinda silly. ------------- Listen to older shows here: mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/ |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 17:39
Steve.....life is not fair my good friend, a sh*t sandwich and everyday is a bite!! -------------
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Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 18:15
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Love him or hate him, the one thing Steven Wilson has over all of us plebs here on this site is.. respect from his peers. The fact that so many prog giants from the golden era call on him to remix they're classic albums or guest on new albums guarantees him a place in progressive rock history. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 18:27
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greatest remix engineer? whoot... that will get him... forgotten in 10 years.. he is a prolific artist.. I grant you that. Man.. I could make music 24/7 as well.. and genius? Come on man.. he is fricking muso. not a brain surgeon. I might only qualify his genius in selling mediocre music as ..progressive for one.. when there is far more adventurous quality music out there. His genius lays in selling all his output off to you all and having you all lap it up. HAH!!!!!! ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 19:13
Here, here
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 19:14
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Is it a skill, or a talent if you like, to create music that has a broad appeal? If not, why not make a hit single and get rich? ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 20:23
I never said greatest/genius blah..blah..blah. Point is all the "greats" think he is relevant. Yeh I think we get your hatred. I have visited this site for 10 years now after renewing my interest in progressive rock music, all thanks to being handed a copy of Stupid Dream to have a listen to. We will see in 10 years time how "your" prophesy pans out assuming I am still alive.. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 20:52
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Posted By: Isa
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 21:18
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Whatever, Steven. The fact is that most of what you can hear in the Prog rock style that makes it unique is found also in Steven's music. It's really an arbitrary semantics debate, coming back to "what is progressive rock" debate. The majority of people who listen to progressive rock consider Steven Wilson's music progressive rock, so if we're going to be democratic about the issue, then there you go. ------------- The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 23:16
funny you say that... because 10 years ago... all the DT fans that inhabited this site ... like locusts.. just like SWilson fan are today.. .said the same thing when I told them their favorite was a flavor of the month and DT would be gone from popular discussion like a fart in the wind. That is what Wilson is.. he hasn't done a damn thing that will stand the test of time. He is like a progressive 'pop star' His fans adore him and when he shoots his bolt.. they'll move on to something else and he'll be the punchline of my jokes, as DT still is, 10 years from now (assuming I'm still alive ) with no fans that care to get riled up.------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 23:28
someone has to wear the white hat around here and stamp out runaway musical mediocrity and uberfanboyism in the west ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 00:51
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Adam Holzman,Guthrie Govan,Nick Beggs,Marco Minneman,Theo Travis mediocre !!!!!!! Tell them that to their faces. I'm sure you must be an absolute ubermusician to rate them as that. Actually they are probably too humble to worry about that. At least GG was when I met him last year.(nice guy) Like I said SW reintroduced me to my old love 10 years ago. Here we are still arguing about him. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 01:08
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Posted By: progrockdeepcuts
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:48
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I think it's possible to be a fan of SW without being a SW fanboy. There are a bunch of artists I like better - many of whom I know personally. I consider myself to be a fan of his work and an admirer of his ear and taste, but cutting edge he ain't. ------------- Listen to older shows here: mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/ |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 09:56
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Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 10:35
Yeah, just hating on musicians and calling them mediocre isn't any better then being a fanboy. How about both sides just accept that everyone has different tastes.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 13:17
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In no way do I compare DT fans to SW fans, I agree the DT fans can be rabid ones that foam at the mouth. For sure they left this site, but not because another member forced them out, I think they left because they did not get buy in on their fanboyism of DT, the fanboyism still exists just not on this site. The popularity of DT on this site really dropped when Portnoy left, as much as people feel he is a turd, he basically was the heart/core of DT, essentially the post-Portnoy DT albums are without direction and purpose. Steven Wilson's music is dark, melancholy and can be darn right depressing at times, but that is prog and certainly not pop rock. Saying he has not done a damn thing that will stand the test of time is a severe stretch, and I am being kind . Almost all the Porcupine Tree material was written by him, and there are plenty of those albums that already have stood the test of time and IMO will continue to do so, his solo material I think will follow along. Insurgentes is the one album most disconnected from anything else he has done solo wise, very experimental-drone-noise-shoegaze style/influenced hardcore rock, released in late 2008, so still not a "test of time album".Sure SW is riding a pretty good wave right now, but not because fans have put him there, it's because what he is recording people like. -------------
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Posted By: progrockdeepcuts
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 13:29
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^ Yes, my point was that not every SW fan is a rabid, maniac fanboy type. There are some people in the middle who like what he does, but don't see him as the be all end all. Like it or not, however, he's the face of this genre in terms of the mainstream. People like him who aren't necessarily diehard prog fans. Is he overrated? Perhaps, but personally, I think he's earned his acclaim and his place in the mainstream and our world. He's worked hard and stuck to his guns and its paid off. Respect where respect is due. ------------- Listen to older shows here: mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/ |
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 13:45
Exactly, Porcupine Tree is my favorite band but if someone doesn't like them or Steven Wilson, then that's their opinion and they have complete freedom to have that opinion. I don't like it though when someone overly screams their opinion, whatever it may be. I hate fanboys and I hate haters, both types act smug and feel like they're better then everyone else. And to contribute to the original subject of the thread, I honestly couldn't care less what Wilson's genre is. The important part is that I, and many other people, enjoy his music. The only point of genres is for the listener to get a general idea of what they like. I don't have an issue with genres in of themselves, but honestly people take genres way too far.
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Posted By: ginodi
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 21:06
| Never heard the word "fanboy" until of late. Do I consider myself one? Nah, he's in my top 10 of artists, just as is Porcupine Tree. but I would proudly wear that tag for RPI. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 23:12
That's right. I'm not his hard-core fan but I am a fan. His recent album perhaps could be better a poll here with all of HCE songs, using that former Grooveshark platform, before the album was officially released), but it is not the reason that arrogantly self-assertive individuals who are in a fury against the contemporary progressive rock in general, now spitting on such a great artist.
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Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 08:45
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I had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Wison four times on the North American leg of his most recent tour. All of the shows were outstanding, the last night in Montreal was exceptional. The band (all exceptional musicians) was on fire, and he and the boys mixed up the standard tour set quite a bit, adding acoustic versions of "Trains" and "How is Your Life Today?", and in addition, he road tested a new extended piece of music at this show. Just prior to the Montreal shows he did an extended interview as part of his participation in the Montreal Jazz Fest. It is available on YouTube here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oo9UVpHedI&feature=youtu.be Regardless of whether or not you personally find resonance in Mr. Wilson's music, I've always found him to be very well spoken, intelligent and exceptionally knowledgable about music in general, his influences and their contributions to his music, and his music within today's industry and social context. At one point in the interview the interviewer asked him if he listens to any new music himself. His response - yes, I listen to about 10 new cd's a week. My guess is that there are very few of us fans who consume this much new music ourselves. In the end, who cares what we call his music. I for one admire him and all he has accomplished over the last quarter century, and like his music very much. ------------- He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore |
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 08:56
Loool, here comes the ultimate musical truth, I guess ------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 09:02
Great post ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 09:05
There's a lot of people like these anywhere. It's a very typical reaction for everything that is new, not only in musical background, so no need to waste your time for proving them they're wrong. In the whole information current all those ignorant opinions are insufficient and turn vestigial quite soon. ------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 11:27
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If any of you think that not liking Wilson means one is against the contemporary prog scene, I am afraid you are sorely mistaken - at least if you are referring to Micky and me. I have spent the best part of the past six years supporting new bands and artists with my reviews (just click on either of the links in my signature if you want proof), and we both have spent a lot of money to attend concerts and festivals featuring mostly modern artists (including both Wilson and Porcupine Tree). So, rather offensive expressions such as the ones that appear in some of the posts above mine are out of place. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 11:30
Nice post ...Wife and I saw him in Seattle, the last US stop and I think we sent him off to Canada in a good mood. Several times the crowd gave him long applause, at one point he even commented "oh the second wave of applause.." As he asked us to sit and nobody did. Adam Holzman received huge applause as the only "US guy" of the band, as Steven said "Adam, these are your people, they love you!" It was pretty cool.....I totally agree on how articulate Steven Wilson is.It's really nice to have him making the music he is right now......Is he progressive rock? The upper echelon of PA has already labeled him, so on this site he is progressive rock, other members are free to agree or disagree with that. -------------
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 11:33
I guess that if you don't love all new prog, then you're viewed as a hater.
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 11:42
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 11:43
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I want to like solo SW, but it seems like every release I get my hopes up and end up disappointed. |
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 12:27
I'm not sure if you were talking about my post, but I was far from thinking that. I was making a point about bashing artists or bashing people who don't share your opinion, because you can love or hate an artist without insulting them or insulting people who don't like them.
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 17:45
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Ah, Homo sapiens sapiens! We love to deconstruct, fragment, and categorize. Accommodate and assimilate. Define and redefine. Analyze and synthesize. Create and destroy. We are gods, each and every one of us. Only, we've become so immersed within the web of duality that we forget the Truth. I am just so grateful for music! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 18:07
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Steven Wilson... My favourite album involving him has always been Sky Moves Sideways. HCE is not bad, but it is not even close to that in terms of musical style, and I know which one I like best. Whether it's prog or not, I don't care. I told someone earlier this week that I admire him more as a producer than as a musician/composer. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 18:46
You forgot to mention our need to Index  ------------- He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 19:41
Nicely said. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 11:55
| Where I can certainly understand people having a hard time with Steven Wilson's music, I believe that is part of what makes him so unique. What is Prog anyway? Miles Davis? Supertramp? Godspeed You Black Emperor? Whatever it is, I dig it. And thank God for Mr. Wilson and what's he's doing to give progressive music a higher profile. |
Posted By: lostrom
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 13:45
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At first, progressive rock-music was called progressive rock - then it became a genre and stopped being progressive.
------------- lostrom |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 21:50
| I love his latest album---but let's face it---he rips off the best of the best prog and yet finds his "voice"---so yeah he's prog rock to answer the question. |
Posted By: WeepingElf
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 06:02
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I am not much into SW's music - it is mostly too gloomy and downbeat to my taste - and there were times when I doubted its "progness", until I realized that I once again had confused "prog" and "music I like" ;) No, SW's music is prog, and despite not liking it much, I am deeply respectful of his intelligence and skill. And what regards him denying his music was prog - Robert Fripp did the same. But he indeed has a point in that few prog bands of our times are as literally progressive as the great classical prog bands were. Yet, "progressive rock" is a label for a particular tradition within rock music, one that isn't always literally progressive, and has no monopoly on being progressive or innovative. Well, it is just a label, and language isn't always logical but based on conventions. I am an amateur linguistician, and I think I have a pretty good idea how language works and how not. Like not every black bird being a blackbird. ------------- ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf "What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes." |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 07:11
I doubt Sectarian and Luminol are Pop-songs........ 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 19:19
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Pat Metheny derided his group as being labeled as jazz-rock/fusion. Do you know what you are, you are what you is. Steven is very influenced by past prog. To deny it is ridiculous... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 07 2015 at 15:09
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Of course he's progressive rock.....both PT and Wilson are on Prog Rock Archives here. What other litmus test do we need? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Gentle Yes
Date Posted: July 10 2015 at 02:34
Completely agree.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w8SY_9yO8k If that's not prog ,what is it? |