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Remixes / Remasters

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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=106081
Printed Date: May 03 2024 at 01:33
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Topic: Remixes / Remasters
Posted By: uduwudu
Subject: Remixes / Remasters
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 01:33
As the world and it's oyster knows people only buy old music. Particularly as the old recordings are given the 21st Century makeover. Well there may be a thread for this (if so and you think the content could / should be reprised then add a link). But I don't remember such a thread. Where was I? Oh yes, remastered / remixed old albums.

Some are done by the ubiquitous and busy S. Wilson - his re-doing of Yes' Relayer plays as I type. I have my Japanese HDCD versions and this sounds quieter, and the details of what is on the tape has been brought out. It's quite something and can be a bit of a surprise at times.

Now I have for e.g. the pre-DVD releases of most things standard on this site. A considerable financial investment (never mind the emotional / intellectual) association of recordings.

I merely wondered how the rest of us thought of the newer versions. I know there are some who have become so attached to the sound over the past 1000 years that anything new, different is anathema. Progression implies change and some of us don't want that. Me especially.

There does not seem to be too much about this in the reviews and as these influence my choices SO much I just wondered what albums are most beneficial to the upgrade, which ones may not be (if any) and how the remastering alters perceptions. e.f PF's Animals and Genesis' And Then There Were Three remove the murk (a bit like hearing a  tape once the heads have been cleaned and de-magnetised) - another reason tape should be consigned to the dust bin of history) and yet the character of the recordings, especially Genesis remains. Foxtrot is a revelation as well. You can tell these guys were on a tight budget back in the dinosaur age.

Not forgetting the tape generation factor  - some knock offs that get sent around the world's pressing pants - already starting 2 generations from the master. Now we have digital sources providing the central common source for recordings - i.e. one may not necessarily need to go for the erstwhile lovely Japanese versions. Or do we?

Another consideration is the growing tendency to have blu ray audio included. This features just about all recordings pertinent to a release and may very well mean not having to ever get another. After the SACD / DVD Audio wars eliminated business and expression (well done record companies, another notable chapter in  your illustrious history) it may mean there will be real progress in audio quality.

PF's The Endless River is one of the few recordings where I could not tell the difference between the DVD and the CD. And though hardly prog rock the 2014 remaster / reissue of Bob Marley's Legend sounds sublime. Now my system is "only" stereo so I miss out on the apparently sublime surround versions so hearing / reading about all that would be good.

Loads of bands have updated their catalogue with some nice looking (and presumably nice sounding versions). Tull, Yes, Genesis, PF, endless reissues of ELP and the systematic technology reflecting catalogue issues by King Crimson. Apparently there are other bands but I don't know about them. Happy to read about someone new though.

Or someone who really needs their works remastered. Tangerine Dream for example... would've thought some were made for surround.

So, do we shell out more of the hard earned / won / stolen / inherited or do we stay with the old?

Oh, by the way I nearly forgot something important. Bonus material used as ... filler.. insight? Love it or hate 'em for ruining the album experience? I know, it depends on the album...

I look forward to the civilised discourse and mutual respect for opinions so prevalent in the sanctity of PA.



Replies:
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 06:26
Like most 'remaster' editions are a crap shoot as to whether it's an improvement or not. I've heard plenty that are NOT.

For starters there is a distinct difference between 'remaster and 'remixed'. Remasters tend to deal with compression and EQ of the already mixed master tapes, where as remixed goes back to the multi-track tapes which offers a whole lot more flexibility. For my money one of the best "Remixed" projects was the early Genesis catalogue. Absolutely amazing sound quality. Some of the Steve Wilson projects are good as you mention. After a few years of acquiring some of these 'remastered' releases I'll avoid any further of these kinds of releases in the future. I've heard way too many that just crank up the mid-highs and apply way too much compression. It gives my ears fatigue after just a few minutes and some are down right harsh.

We all know that as technology advances there is a tendency to revisit older times and attempt to move those recordings closer to modern levels, but most times it would just be best to let sleeping dogs lie. Of course there are always acceptions for troubled recordings. At the end of the day I think were at a point where most 'remasters' are cash grabs.

As for the "bonus material" (ie: out takes, rehearsals etc.), from what I've seen included it's not even for fans, it's for the OCD collectors only adding no real value to the average listener. I'm a collector and in some instances a completest (ELP, YES, Genesis, Peter Gabriel), and even I don't have the need to listen to a studio rehearsal or 3 minute radio edit of Close to the Edge.


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Thank you for supporting independently produced music


Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 07:21
But the complete studio version of "America" on CTTE is one of the best bonus tracks added to a CD ever!  I'd had this version only on a scratchy old Atlantic compilation LP that I dug out of a dusty bargain bin.
As for "remix/remaster" - JD hit it....it's a crapshoot.  But anything is better than my old Atco cassette copies of Genesis albums.  What a treat is was when the "Definitive Remasters" came out in the mid-90s.  I could finally "hear" what the band was on about.

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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 07:27
The only remaster I ever purchased was the 2003 release of ELO 2/Lost Planet, a 30th anniversary limited edition of ELO's second album. It was actually a remarkable improvement over the original U.S. release of this album. I've read elsewhere that the UK version of 1973 was far superior. I may have other remasters without actually knowing it since I have purchased older 1970s prog rock in recent years, never having it on CD before. But the ELO 2 purchase was intentional because I was curious if they could improve on the muddy US version.
 
That's pretty much it for me though. I've been spending most of my time acquiring lots of stuff I have never heard before from the over 9,500 bands and artists on PA, an endeavor that will never end (like family genealogy).
 
But I will be reading and coming back to this thread in the future. Perhaps it is time I look into this area more seriously?


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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 08:00
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Or someone who really needs their works remastered. Tangerine Dream for example... would've thought some were made for surround.
It's exactly what I though when I heard Phaedra two days ago. Isn't Steven Wilson a TD fan? Wink

Just like there were bad and good original editions, there are bad and good remasters (although many were influenced by the loudness war). I've been really enjoying the recent remixes of Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Rush, Can, etc. Some of my Supertramp CD's are awful though.

As for the bonus tracks, it's another reason why I prefer vinyl Tongue I agree that America from Yes is a good exception though Thumbs Up


Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 08:37
Originally posted by Intruder Intruder wrote:

But the complete studio version of "America" on CTTE is one of the best bonus tracks added to a CD ever!
Certainly there are exception, but they are not the rule. Very little (as a % of the total additional material released) is worth the bother, or even more importantly, relevant, in any sense of the word.


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Thank you for supporting independently produced music


Posted By: unforgivable74
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 08:57
I think the original 90's Genesis remasters were a revelation but some of the new remixes leave me cold. That beautiful Hackett guitar solo in the fast bit of DWTMK from SEBTP really came to the forefront on the first remasters. The remixed version leaves it somewhat subdued. Also, on the Collins albums, the vocals are sometimes over-prominent in my opinion. This is a good thing on Seconds Out - perhaps the best remix - because the vocals have always seemed a bit 'distant' on previous versions.

So with that said, I think it depends on the choices made by the person remixing. I haven't heard a bad Steven Wilson remix yet so I tend to trust his judgement.

As far as REMASTERING goes, I think without a 'remix' you are not going to get a great deal of difference from the first time something was remastered, assuming it was done properly. However, to contradict what I just said, I've just bought my 3rd copy of Atom Heart Mother on CD and I can honestly say that the Discovery remaster of this is definitely an improvement on the first 90's remaster.

Extra tracks, for me, should be left for an 'additional' CD or DVD/Blu-ray and never appear as tracks 'added' to the original album. Some are fab, some are merely 'interesting' and many are pointless.


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Laughs as I clean my teeth, laughs as I rub at my eyes.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 09:42

hi,

Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Or someone who really needs their works remastered. Tangerine Dream for example... would've thought some were made for surround.

I'm not sure that this could be done easily on the TD material and I think that the release of the early bootleg shows cleaned up some, is probably the better option ... these could be cleaned up, but the recording of these things was a one time only, and I'm not sure that these could be easily remixed, re-mastered maybe, but I think that the recordings were not exactly the best ... at the time.

Steven Wilson has shown appreciation for Klaus Schulze more than Tangerine Dream ... he is in a KS DVD for an interview and got to see some of KS's engineers work some details in his music ... first hand, before SW started his string of remixes and re-masters.

As I said before, when we heard the English pressing of Sgt Peppers and DSOTM, they did not need a remix or a re-master ... it was the American version that was a copy which was total crap by comparison that needed to be removed off the market! It was insulting to say the least. And we knew this way back then in 1974 ... so people forking out for being cheated and ripped off is not cool. I also did not find SW improved KC at all! And the best version is the recent one done in concert ... not a remix or re-master!



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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: friso
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 11:47
I would love to hear a vinyl remaster for Captain Beyond. The original lacks a bit in the lower spectrum.

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I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry.


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 12:13
Totally hit and miss.......I try and avoid "remasters", since as stated these are simply volume levels pushed equally removing the dynamics and with hard compression..They sound like krapp and should be burned. Thank you the digital evolution!

Remix is the best process to adjust all levels of the original recording. As you see I did not type "improve" as that is subjective, based on final media type and your sound system. This is why people like some and don't, a remix will bring certain sounds, instruments, vocals forward/back/center/L/R....Depending on what might need adjusting, so it will and usually does sound different that the original issue.

Take the LZ reissues of late. For me they are fantastic as all my Zeppelin has been played to death and the grooves, well are not grooves anymore LOL. Page did an amazing job IMO, on these issues and at least for me the vinyl versions brought back that big, deep, full analog sound that Zepp was known for...Everyone loved their sound in the 70's. The krappy CD remasters did not convey that 70's sound in the 90's.

The other versions I have been deeply immersed in are the Can vinyl releases.....All remixed from the original stereo tapes, as the liner notes detail. The music is well nothing short of brilliant!

I adore the Genesis 2008 remixes by Nick Davis, he did an amazing job and has really done some outstanding work of late. The Genesis were also cut to vinyl as 1/2 speed masters so for me the sound is pretty darn sweet! Essentially the veil was lifted from the original releases I had on Charisma label, very muddy sounding as everyone knows.

As far as bonus material, most of it I could care less for as it is filler, to fill up a 74min CD or fill up a 4.7GB DVD. I will say the bonus material on LZ IV was really nice, that Sunset Sound mix of Stairway is a treat! But yea I don't need 5 different versions of the same song as acoustic, instrumental, radio edit, live or studio out takes......


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Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 12:24

Oftentimes a disc loaded with alternate and/or undercooked studio versions makes an album unlistenable, especially those Fantasy or Blue Note label jazz CDs that run the same number three times in a row in alternate versions/takes that have little discernible difference. 

 
 


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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....


Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 16:24
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Like most 'remaster' editions are a crap shoot as to whether it's an improvement or not. I've heard plenty that are NOT.

IMHO, the two "Immersion" editions of PF (DSofM and WYWH) are complete rubbish. No improvement over the previous editions and the 5.1 surround versions included in these editions are weak - they feel like glorified stereo versions to me pushed out to a 5.1 format - at best.


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He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore


Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 16:49
Here's another example of WTF?? I just found out about.

Queen - Innuendo 2001 Japan Remastered Toshiba-EMI 1991

Does a 1991 album that's only ten years old really need a remaster? I don't think the technology took much of a leap during that period. Sounds like a real cash grab that one. I have the 1991 CD and I think the sound is fine the way it is.



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Thank you for supporting independently produced music


Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 19:54
^I've heard of albums from the late '90s being 'remastered'.


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Magma America Great Make Again


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: March 11 2016 at 09:26
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Here's another example of WTF?? I just found out about.

Queen - Innuendo 2001 Japan Remastered Toshiba-EMI 1991

Does a 1991 album that's only ten years old really need a remaster? I don't think the technology took much of a leap during that period. Sounds like a real cash grab that one. I have the 1991 CD and I think the sound is fine the way it is.


It happens, have no info on that Queen release...but take for example Rush~Vapor Trails released in 2002....Remixed in 2013 due to high overall volume levels causing clipping and distortion. Even though my original CD I thought was OK (I was too excited, just happy they were back to making music!!), it was not till 5-6 yrs later that I started to get tired of listening to that CD after the first 2 tracks....Gave me a headache!

There are some recordings that are just outright bad out of the starting gate on CD that should be burned and then remixed right away.....


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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 11 2016 at 18:01
^I have the original Vapor Trails CD and it sucks for production. It was definitely in the need for a rework, but only because Paul Northfield and/or David Leonard completely f#@ked it up. The remix was a welcome correction. A bit of a unique reason to remix an album so early on in it's existence.


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Thank you for supporting independently produced music


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: March 15 2016 at 17:34
in my experience, bonus material is rarely ever that. There's usually strong reason why it didn't make the album. I think of Steve Hackett's Hercules Unchained - just silly and sung in the same vain, regardless of some crafty guitar work. I'm generally unfazed by the existence of extras on the remasters I buy. I'm primarily concerned (as I'd assume most are) with the quality of the remaster of the primary music itself.

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: LakeGlade12
Date Posted: March 23 2016 at 06:51
So apparently Steven Wilson has recently (3rd March 2016) released a remaster of his 2008 solo debut Insurgentes. Yes you heard me right, a remaster (which SW apparently hates and as we all know prefers remixes) from the guy who is well know for making his albums sound crystal clear and virtually perfect. Well I have the original version and it sounds just about perfect to me, so why this is getting a remaster is a complete mystery to me. Confused    


Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 23 2016 at 07:14
Originally posted by LakeGlade12 LakeGlade12 wrote:

So apparently Steven Wilson has recently (3rd March 2016) released a remaster of his 2008 solo debut Insurgentes. Yes you heard me right, a remaster (which SW apparently hates and as we all know prefers remixes) from the guy who is well know for making his albums sound crystal clear and virtually perfect. Well I have the original version and it sounds just about perfect to me, so why this is getting a remaster is a complete mystery to me. Confused    
Simply put...CASH GRAB!


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Thank you for supporting independently produced music


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: March 25 2016 at 06:59
This remaster / remixing thing can really ruin the album buying experience. Is Ziggy Stardust best with the RCA versus EMI version, the one with the latest remaster, the one a few years before or the first (remaster). Or another example of ridiculousness - the Zeppelin compilation Mothership using the latest remasters. So you could get two copies and ... do they sound radically different? Apparently so, to the discerning ear.

This may all be down to the mess the record companies made of hi res audio. Instead of everything being in 24 bit / hybrid they make sure these "pop" records are still disposable products.

FYI classical fans I found a lovely 2 SACD of pianist Sviatoslav Richter performing studio Piano Concertos (Dvorak (Gm), Greig and Schumann (both Am). Utter heaven. Know hi-res - no vinyl.


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: March 25 2016 at 08:46
Originally posted by LakeGlade12 LakeGlade12 wrote:

So apparently Steven Wilson has recently (3rd March 2016) released a remaster of his 2008 solo debut Insurgentes. Yes you heard me right, a remaster (which SW apparently hates and as we all know prefers remixes) from the guy who is well know for making his albums sound crystal clear and virtually perfect. Well I have the original version and it sounds just about perfect to me, so why this is getting a remaster is a complete mystery to me. Confused    

Well it is possible it is being called a remaster because the original version is out of print, sure you can still find them new and used, but stock may be low. I suspect there is demand for more copies to be pressed. My KScope version from 2009 yea it's well done mixed album and the sound is impressive, I doubt I buy another version, its a great album but not that great to have two of them.


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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: March 26 2016 at 03:37
Ended up with both versions of Deadwing on DVD Audio because of content difference. Not sure I'll do that again. I mean I like the album, but this was getting silly. In this case one distribution outfit wanted different content to the other release - or some such nonsense.




Posted By: GreatBeyonder
Date Posted: March 26 2016 at 04:24
The quality of Remasters/Remixes really doesn't have anything to do with vinyl or CDs. It's strictly an issue of human judgment. Modern producers tend to intentionally screw with the dynamic range which couldn't be manipulated with earlier technology, for truly idiotic reasons. Check out Stevie Wonder's stuff, which sounds just as gorgeous as it did in the 70s. Jethro Tull albums are also well handled. Nick Davis would have had to INTENTIONALLY butcher the Genesis remasters for them to be so compressed and unlistenable, because it really is the easiest thing in the world to just leave the DRM in the double digits and preserve the music as performed.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: March 26 2016 at 08:15
New music > Music I already own in shinier version
 
Hell I've always got a list of new stuff and 'new to me' old stuff I want to get that's as long as my arm.
 
The only time I'm likely to make an exception is where the existing version I've got has such poor sound that I don't listen to it. The sh*tty production on Relayer makes me think about buying the S Wilson version, for instance, though I haven't actually sprung for it.
 
Bonus material, it depends. Maybe we should have a thread for reissues where the bonus material is really worthwhile, but that seems to be the exception.


Posted By: Vikingrat9966
Date Posted: March 26 2016 at 12:15
I am trying to control my impulse buying of stuff I have had already unless I hear something really noticeable in a new mix. I just hate buying the same cd over and over and to be honest in the case of Yes and Steve Hackett the bonus material can kill the pacing of the original album. If it's something that I know will be good like In The Land Of Pink And Grey I will buy the deluxe edition for the extras. 


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: April 13 2016 at 06:05
Originally posted by Vikingrat9966 Vikingrat9966 wrote:

I am trying to control my impulse buying of stuff I have had already unless I hear something really noticeable in a new mix. I just hate buying the same cd over and over and to be honest in the case of Yes and Steve Hackett the bonus material can kill the pacing of the original album. If it's something that I know will be good like In The Land Of Pink And Grey I will buy the deluxe edition for the extras. 


Here you go. This directly related thread.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=106270&PID=5314477&#5314477

I too hate the album experience to be diminished by additions; this is why say Bowie had his bonus cuts on one version of Ziggy Stardust on another CD.

A good Caravan album with bonus material is For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night and I know Cunning Stunts was improved with the bonus cuts.

It's the reissue of a reissue that I have to take issue with. Who Sell Out and Pictures At An Exhibition spring to mind as they have different bonus material. Pictures was reissued in what seemed like a week or two of it's first reissue.

Now if all bonus material could be compiled (hey, record companies a way of making more cash) this could be useful. E.g. the Yes reissues.


Posted By: lostrom
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 06:03
Since I discovered "the loudness war" and noise reduction, I've sold of about 500 remastrad CDs and replaced them with original, not remastered CDs, vinyls or new editions with flats transfers. It has taken me 8 years. Remixes I don't care for much and bonus tracks most often ruins the album.

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lostrom


Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 09:07
I'm in trouble.   I have more CD's then I can listen to.   I'm burned out on remasters, bonus material, and with remixes with a few exceptions like Aqualung. 

I figure I could commiserate with you guys.   I feel guilty, because I can't listen to everything I own.  I've promised myself to buy only new masterpieces and maybe 2 lost classics per year.  Otherwise I'm a collector, rushing thru listening sessions to make it to the next CD.  I remember listening to albums in the 70's till I wore out the grooves.  Not anymore.  What a waste.    I feel like an out of control music-holic! 

Sometimes I wonder about you guys.   How many hours a day do you listen to music?  How the hell do you listen to it all?  


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 09:54
I think one curious case of a remix has to be one Frank Zappa did with Hot Rats. There are some parts in both the original and 1987 remix that I liked.

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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 09:55
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I'm in trouble.   I have more CD's then I can listen to.   I'm burned out on remasters, bonus material, and with remixes with a few exceptions like Aqualung. 

I figure I could commiserate with you guys.   I feel guilty, because I can't listen to everything I own.  I've promised myself to buy only new masterpieces and maybe 2 lost classics per year.  Otherwise I'm a collector, rushing thru listening sessions to make it to the next CD.  I remember listening to albums in the 70's till I wore out the grooves.  Not anymore.  What a waste.    I feel like an out of control music-holic! 

Sometimes I wonder about you guys.   How many hours a day do you listen to music?  How the hell do you listen to it all?  

You are not alone.  I have struggled with "quality" listening over the past few years as I acquired so much music that sometimes I only give it 1 or 2 listens.  Unless I really hear something that grabs me quickly then I give it more time.  I miss the days of getting 1 album and just listening to it over and over while reading the album cover and growing familiar with it.  Back then it was more about money and availability of albums, now (like everything else these days) we are just overloaded with information and everything has to be instant, including music.

To keep to the topic, I find the bonus material of remixes, remasters, deluxe releases, etc... to be not much of a bonus.  I wish more would put bonus material on a separate CD and keep the original the way it was initially released.  I don't have enough remasters vs originals to know if they are done properly or better to my ears liking.


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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 09:57
I bought the original Chrysalis Records CD of Robin Trower's Bridge of Sighs and should never have given it up for the the remaster which was just awful sounding.

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: lostrom
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 12:46
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

I bought the original Chrysalis Records CD of Robin Trower's Bridge of Sighs and should never have given it up for the the remaster which was just awful sounding.
Like most remasters.


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lostrom


Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 16:02
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I'm in trouble.   I have more CD's then I can listen to. 

I feel guilty, because I can't listen to everything I own. 

Sometimes I wonder about you guys.   How many hours a day do you listen to music?  How the hell do you listen to it all?  

1) Give me your CDsBig smile
2) On average I listen to about five hours of music a day
3) I can because I don't have a wife or kidsEmbarrassed


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Magma America Great Make Again


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 16:57
^That's the key: don't have a nagging wife who has absolutely no appreciation for prog. I order something like Gentle Giant on Amazon, and she flips her lid when she gets the credit card statement. I don't even have a home stereo as she would definitely ask me to turn it off. Needless to say, all of my prog is heard in my vehicle (shucks).

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: June 01 2016 at 17:38
[[/QUOTE]

You are not alone.  I have struggled with "quality" listening over the past few years as I acquired so much music that sometimes I only give it 1 or 2 listens.  Unless I really hear something that grabs me quickly then I give it more time.  I miss the days of getting 1 album and just listening to it over and over while reading the album cover and growing familiar with it.  Back then it was more about money and availability of albums, now (like everything else these days) we are just overloaded with information and everything has to be instant, including music.

To keep to the topic, I find the bonus material of remixes, remasters, deluxe releases, etc... to be not much of a bonus.  I wish more would put bonus material on a separate CD and keep the original the way it was initially released.  I don't have enough remasters vs originals to know if they are done properly or better to my ears liking.
[/QUOTE]

I feel better already.  I'm not alone.   I have a wife, and she shares my posts and prog music.  Sometimes it's me, sometime it' her.   She's anti remaster for the most part, but she has around 20 Steven Wilson Remixes.   She's a Steven Wilson Fangirl.  


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: June 03 2016 at 08:04
I did spring for the Relayer remaster. Its quieter, more detailed and quite striking how buried music is now well, there.. there particularly in Gates. This is probably the best way to release this music, the Blu Ray (must connect my one up, it sets there...) has the new album, the  old one, all the bonus material, Soon single everything related, to it on there; how ideal. The CD has some bonus but not in a way to ruin the album experience which to me is quite important. There is a version with a DD rather than Blu Ray and  - I think -  one in box or book form ala Aqualung, Passion Play etc.

90125 has a lot of bonus tracks which all happen to be relevant to the album but might drag the album out to those used to the 1983 original.

But now we have bands making very long albums whereas in the olden days it took 30 to 40 minutes before it finally ended. Now album releases area huge time investment. Space is the place (Sun Ra)... after all.


Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: June 03 2016 at 10:03
Dynamic Range Database provides useful information:

http://dr.loudness-war.info/" rel="nofollow - http://dr.loudness-war.info/


Posted By: lostrom
Date Posted: June 03 2016 at 10:58
Originally posted by terramystic terramystic wrote:

Dynamic Range Database provides useful information:

http://dr.loudness-war.info/" rel="nofollow - http://dr.loudness-war.info/

True, but it doesn't always show right - the best is to open a file and look at it visually.


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lostrom


Posted By: RockHard
Date Posted: July 10 2016 at 14:44
I'd like to throw my hat in the ring here as a remastering guru. I believe I'm producing some of the best remasters on the planet. Pay a visit my site @ http://hotrockcentralpage.proboards.com/ I have a sample before & after of an mfsl clip & my remaster on the page to give you a taste of my ability. All members that join up are entitled to listen to my library on demand however those are just 160's mp3, if you want to hear any of them in lossless I have another arrangement for that. Would like to get some critical ears to judge my work & I'm not just doing reworks in a single audio style either, I have several audio landscapes to choose from for most of the songs I do. I cover rock & blues, early 60's to present. Hope to meet some good ears. cheers all


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 10 2016 at 21:01
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

...
A good Caravan album with bonus material is For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night and I know Cunning Stunts was improved with the bonus cuts.
...

The New Sinfonia .... in its redone state, complete instead of butchered by the LP, is a much more enjoyable piece and comes off even better than the LP ever did. It's a real shame that most fans of Caravan can not listen to this and realize how classically minded the work of Caravan really is, and how well if fits the orchestra medium, when some rock bands are not even worth the effort at all, as there is not enough variation in the music itself to help the music along.

Not all of the redo's are worth it ... KS's redones are worth it with the new stuff, only because a lot of that stuff was done on the private collections that almost all of us had never heard, and now the CD takes the limitation of length mostly away from these pieces. 

But in general, almost all of the rock albums I have heard "redone", are all ... not worth the effort for me, as the music is still better than the manipulation in the studio. And I think that is the problem. SW might have thought he made ITCOTCK better, as did Robert, but the feeling is not mutual ... the cleaning up of the recording is what made it OK, but the emotional content? Nothing new under the sun!

But, as a way to get a new audience to it, I'm OK with that, since just copying the old thing is a bit ... passe ... and likely to sound worse, so making a cleaner version would probably make sense. But if you ever heard the LP versions of the American and English pressings of Sgt Pepper, and all the way to DSOTM, you know right away that a remix/remaster is not necessary at all!

I kinda wonder if we can get Steven Wilson to remix/remaster Stravinsky does Stravinsky ... you think it might sound better than it already is? Heck, let's have Steven do Tebaldi and Nilsson and Leinsdorf in Turandot! Now, that would be an accomplishment!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: RockHard
Date Posted: July 14 2016 at 19:15
I have some of captain beyonds singles I remastered, you're welcome to request them. Visit my forum @ http://hotrockcentralpage.proboards.com/ & introduce yourself.


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: July 28 2016 at 20:53
Speaking of remixes and remasters I see there are now two different but the same box set versions of The Beach Boy's Pet Sounds.

Getting silly now?


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 28 2016 at 20:59
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Speaking of remixes and remasters I see there are now two different but the same box set versions of The Beach Boy's Pet Sounds.

Getting silly now?


I think so..

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