Pink Floyd: Roger Waters' Peak Singing Voice
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Topic: Pink Floyd: Roger Waters' Peak Singing Voice
Posted By: ReactioninG
Subject: Pink Floyd: Roger Waters' Peak Singing Voice
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 05:02
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I have always found Roger Waters singing voice to be incredibly powerful and moving. However, there is a time period of his career, about 1979-1984, give or take a few years, where he just seemed to suddenly reach a new level of singing prowess. I would recommend the live Wall album "Is There Anybody Out There?" The Earl's Court concerts in 80-81. Roger sounds like he has a larger range and fiercer vocal than earlier on in his career. This is also reflected on the albums of the time. I always found his singing on Final Cut to be perhaps an unrivaled success in terms of what he was trying to accomplish emotionally. I also would venture to say that ONE of the reasons that Roger Waters began singing on the majority of tracks from Animals-Final Cut could be that at least he thought he was the best singer in the group, particularly for the material he was writing. I personally think that. I absolutely WOULDN'T want more Gilmour on any of those three albums. Moreover, I would say that in these years Waters surpassed Gilmour for most Pink Floyd purposes, even if he didn't have a prettier voice. I wish he had rerecorded Have A Cigar with his own vocal! Anyone think I'm dead wrong and Gilmour's voice "going missing" was a big tragedy? Of course, then there's Rick, who I think was a good singer but not for PF material after Dark Side. I just don't see it. Some have lamented his absence as well.
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Replies:
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 05:20
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Im thinking The Final Cut / Pros & Cons Of Hitchhiking. The right amount of aggression/emotion for the concept/topic, and the music. OR..........Set The Controls for the Heart of the Sun. Oh, 20 milliseconds later, Its A Miracle (the best piece of music in Rogers entire life........).......for me. |
Posted By: ReactioninG
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 06:03
Appreciate the reference to It's a Miracle. Amused to Death is one heavy hitter after another. The title track usually makes me tear up. It's the kind of album he was building up to. And only Roger Waters could sing such songs convincingly.
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Tom Ozric wrote:Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 06:10
| Incidentally, Roger is the reason I picked up a bass in the first place way back in 86 (thanks to the Live In Pompeii video). Totally righteous. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 06:41
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I've always thought of Waters as Floyd's best singer, TBH (yes including Syd) Though it seems that it's the tracks where Gilmour sings that get more airplay (except for Brick). I've found that Gilmour over-reaches himself much quicker than Waters does;despite probably having a wider range.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 06:52
I'll disagree with much of what you say in this paragraph. At one point, I guess Roger & Dave went the way Roger and Rick (Hodgson & Davies) went.Each sings their song, though Waters had Gilmour sing lead on a few of his tracks on The Wall and Let Dave sing Dogs (co-written). That would be reason #1 why David sang less, IMHO. On top of it, Dave's voice was best coupled with Wright doublinf (Echoes, Us & Them), and Wright wrote next t nothing from Animals onwards (both him & Dave having kept their better ideas for their respective solo albums) However, I think TFC would probably be much more popular with Floyd fans if Roger had convinced David to sing at least a couple more of tracks on it.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 08:24
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This is one of those threads where I think we're not listening to the same music or the same singer. I definitely would put Gilmour above Waters, with Wright a close second to Gilmour. Come on, Waters doesn't sing, he talks. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 11:19
I agree. But I think what made Floyd great at their eight was the dichotomy between Waters' manic and Gilmour's mild voice. If you listen to the tone and timber of such songs as "Hey You", "Comfortably Numb" and "Dogs", the tenor of the song changes dramatically from one vocalist to the other and is an important aspect of the overall presentation. The duality is what made those songs interesting. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 12:32
You lidsten to too much rap  |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 12:37
Gilmour offers much more variation vocally. Waters tends to rave, and as Steve inferred, when he is trying to sing softly, it's much more spoken word rather than actual singing. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 13:06
| Always loved Waters` screaming part in Careful with that axe. I think itīs really great there has been those three quite different vocalists in Floyd, love them all. Of course Syd was also great. |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 14:20
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I think The Pros And Cons Of Hitch-hiking was the last consistent Roger vocal work. But here and there, "The Last Refugee" from his last album was the best vocal he'd done for some albums. Plus "Wait For Her". |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 15:16
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Roger Waters has always been a lyricist rather than a vocalist. I think his peak was The Final Cut: his voice was already deteriorating at the time, but he could put a dose of venom in his singing which gave it some added value. Gilmour is the better vocalist and his voice is not affected by advancing age. ------------- 
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 15:53
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Gotta go with the Gilmour crowd here....much more pleasant voice. Waters' singing is perhaps my least favorite thing about Floyd. He's a fine lyricist but a very mediocre singer who as several have already pointed out tends to talk-sing his songs....though he does bring emotion to his words.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 21:45
| I do love Waters singing, and I have never understood why he is so underrated. And he is one of the most emotional singers around. Though still I think I might give the edge to Gilmour, I think Waters singing was more distinctive and special. Yet, Floyd were at their best when they sang together the parts that worked better for each one. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: July 01 2018 at 00:01
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 01 2018 at 04:26
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Walters v Gilmour Lennon v McCartney Gabriel v Collins DiAnno v Dickinson Apples v Oranges
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 01 2018 at 06:29
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I don't think it makes sense to talk about them as better or worse singer. In the first place, Roger is a very unique and special singer. He does certain things in a way nobody else could, and where this makes sense he is a class on his own. But I can totally see how his singing can annoy people and it can annoy me, too. Dave is OK and pleasant and a much safer bet but by far not as interesting as a singer as Roger. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 02 2018 at 01:54
I dont think the O.P. was asking Waters vs. Gilmour.......  My understanding was Waters most effective and glowing vocal........ .......Chain Of Life perhaps 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 02 2018 at 05:57
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Not really related to this topic, but I was re-listening to Roger's latest album for the first time in six months, and it still sounds phenomenally good (even in the car) I can understand those that say that often Waters talks more than he sings, but you also have to keep in mind what he's singing about: it's usually not love sogs or getting drink & wasted lyrics ... Sooooo it's not like Waters can sing like Withney or Shakira about Trump being a nincompoop either. He's gotta sound angry or derisive for a minimum credibility, right? Since his texts are so important, he's bound to articulate more every word than gluing gooey-sickly love words. Furthermore, for Waters' naysayers, consider Leonard Cohen's singing and how many similitudes there is between their respective styles. Nobody ever criticizes LH for his singing.
Hodgson vs Davies
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 02 2018 at 12:49
 ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 02 2018 at 13:18
That's definitely a dubious statement to make. Gilmour's vocals are effortless in "Numb" and the highlight of the song. That, and his lead of course. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 02 2018 at 14:01
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Someone mentioned Leonard Cohen above......I'm betting he would say he was not a good singer (if he was still alive...) and I'm also betting Waters would also say he himself is not a very good vocalist/singer but both men do justice to their lyrics and music in their presentations. Regarding hearing and listening to the same music...I concur in that it seems like people are definitely hearing different things sometimes.....or maybe their hearing needs checking. ;)
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: ReactioninG
Date Posted: July 03 2018 at 17:20
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Don't get me wrong, Gilmour is a great singer, especially if you were to give him any old song versus Waters trying it. I think Waters in his peak singing years was more effective at relaying the message of PF songs at that point. No way Gilmour should have had more vocals on Final Cut. Roger is the only person who could sing that material and his OWN material that he was writing at the time were vastly inferior. They ended up on About Face... Final Cut fit too well together to tag on any of that stuff, even as backing tracks. Could have even have cut his vocals in half on the Wall and it would have worked fine (though I don't think it would be necessarily better, and Comfortably Numb is almost unthinkable without Gilmour, remember, though, for stuff like Young Lust, the band actually tried out Roger's Sexual Revolution, and he had a lot more of that in the cache). I agree them sharing vocals was often effective. They contrast nicely. All in all, I think Animals-Final Cut period exhibited a very special vocal presence at the peak of his powers and that was Waters. |
Posted By: ReactioninG
Date Posted: July 03 2018 at 17:30
The thing is with this we do have apples and oranges with PF, and the Beatles as well (especially the Beatles), but Genesis there is one guy completely displacing another and singing the former guy's songs for him in concert. That's a tough debate, with pros and cons. I don't think Gabriel could do great on a lot of Collins tracks. Collins packs a lot of heartfelt emotions into the later Genesis tracks, and eventually got better than Gabriel, IMO *controversy*. Worth a separate thread. With Hodgson vs Davies... my god.... how I hate Hodgson and love Davies.... why in the world wasn't Davies just singing all their songs from day 1? My favorite album from them is Brother Where You Bound.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 03 2018 at 21:39
| I do like Collins singing better than Gabriel's. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 02:29
mmmhhh!!!.. Should it be noted that the grand/mainstream public doesn't seem to have the slightest problem with Waters (or Cohen's >> it was me that mentioned him) vocals....  It seems that only in the Gilmour-Waters 80's feud, the Daviders complained about Roger's taking over the Floyd reigns, but that opinion only happened after the would-be break-up and ensuing battle
of course Gilmour's a great singer  As for the rivalries, I'd say that both the Gabe/Collins and Waters/Gilmour were fan-only stuff. FTM, I'd guess that in the other two cases (Lennon/Maca and Hodgson/Davies the songs they wrote separately determined who sings it. This may be difficult to grasp since John & Paul signed together, whereas it was more obvious in Supertramp, especially from Crime onwards (though School was written by both). The Supertramp situation was a bit more complicated prior to Crime, because David-Palmer James also sang on the debut, and Rick Davies almost not. I'm not even sure there was an issue before Roger left the band, but he complained that the band kept doing his songs, which were too personal for him to hear sung by someone else. However, how can one hate Hodgson's singing, though??
 Sure, Roger sang some of the silliest ditties like Dreamer, Lady, Give a Little, BiA (the track), Raining Again, all of them using what I call "w**ker melodies", but Roger also sang and wrote most of Supertramp's proggiest tracks. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 03:54
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Somewhere around Careful With That Axe Eugene. Not really a fan of his shout-singing, but it does work well in between Gilmour and Wright's angelic vocals. On his own it just gets too much for me. Sorta like micing up an old grumpy man. ------------- The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 05:00
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Posted By: ReactioninG
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 06:38
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I think the most angered I ever got was when I read two interviews around the same time from Rick and Gilmour where they said they didn't "get" Roger's lyrics, the same ones they sang every night in the 80s and 90s and later. Millions (Billions?) of PF fans "get" PF lyrics and how important they are, yet Gilmour and Wright claim they don't. Either just trying to anger Waters or they are idiots without a hint of attachment to MEANING in music. I think its probably they were trying to get to Waters. |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 07:47
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Waters not only wrote 97% of the lyrics, but he wrote most of the music, and would hand the song over to David to sing (which I thought was a good idea).. As time went by, Roger sang more and more. To reply to a few comments about Roger's talking, he plays characters/roles (Doctor, Judge, etc)... I think Waters/Gilmour was the best/most complementary duo in music.. I also think their best work ended with "The Wall", though I like a few songs here and there, especially "Pros and Cons" and for Gilmour, "On An Island"... I think Waters was more important to the band, but think Gilmour always made it better with his fantastic vocals/guitar.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 11:25
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 21:24
I still don't agree with the idea that Waters wrote most of the music in Floyd... at least not before The Wall. He did indeed write some of the great songs from the band, but many others were written by Wright and Gilmour. Echoes was a collaboration, and as I read onces, the main structure was written by Wright. Time was a collaboration too, The Great Gig in the Sky is all Wright, Us and Them is written by Wright (with lyrics by Waters, of course, and that's what I understand makes it look like he might have written more music than he actually did), Shine on was a collaboration, Wish you were Here was written by Gilmour, as far as I understand, as well as Dogs (perhaps the best song on Animals, and taking nearly half of the album). And even on The Wall there's Comfortably Numb, one of the favourite Floyd songs, and mostly written by Gilmour. Of course, I do love Brain Damage / Eclipse, Welcome to the Machine, Pigs, Sheep, just to name a few, a lot too. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 21:37
I remember reading about Gilmour having similar feelings. I think he would say he didn't understand how they could make so much money by being a rock bands, while other people with as I would understand it, more merits (like his own parents, being scientists) had more modest income. Also, Gilmour has done his own share of donations, I particularly remember him selling a house (as I understand it a rather expensive one, I guess in London) in benefit of the homeless, since he said he didn't need it. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: July 04 2018 at 21:59
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 05 2018 at 01:22
I don't know where you get this idea from, but it's the first time I hear of Waters writing 97% of Floyd material pre-TFC. even in The Wall, he doesn't get to those numbers.
Well, about Roger's lyrics, obviously Rick & Dave were of awfully bad faith in the 80's & 90'zs, since unlike some, Waters' texts are easily understood by most, though the album's concept might escape a lot of mainstreamers . As for not understanding why Waters was not living the rich life, I guess Waters' communist upbringing escaped them. AQs for Polly's lyrics, they're not laughable per se, but totally forgettable and, in 90% of the cases, pointless, but not laughable. I guess it was part of the war or words.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: July 05 2018 at 05:08
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Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: July 05 2018 at 06:51
Name the 3 songs Gilmour wrote lyrics for when they were together... "Fat Old Sun" "The Narrow Way" (which he asked Roger to finish, but it wasn't part of the Ummagumma theme).. and "Childhood's End".
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 06 2018 at 01:45
Well, it's not like communism didn't exist in the UK (far from it), but having one of them in a prog middle class/public school origined band is kind of rare. But inside Floyd, outside Mason's race car collection, I wouldn't say that anyone played the extravagant superstar, which is maybe why some called them faceless.
Wouldn't Echoes be one of them?? Unless, of course, it's Rick Wright's lyrics... But we've seen in his two solo albums that his lyrics were no better than Dave's. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: July 06 2018 at 05:09
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Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: July 06 2018 at 09:04
Those are all Roger's lyrics on "Echoes".. Credits include music and lyrics. Rick contributed the Cm-Gm. For a guy with a huge ego, he gave most of the best songs for David to sing. I always thought "the one who sings is the one who wrote" until I became involved with publishing... Roger was pretty generous, with all the other 3 doing solo albums/tour while Rog saved his best for the entire band, even giving Nick Mason a free credit on "Speak To Me" (which turned out to equal millions of $$ for Nick, who did nothing on the track) and the entire band for "Time" when it was Roger who came in with the F#m-A-E-F#m.. I know Roger is making the ticking sound by plucking the high frets of his bass while muted, as well as coming into the verse too soon on purpose, because of the song's theme. Maybe Nick Mason was credited for roto-toms. I'd be very curious to know who did what on my favorite song of all-time.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 09 2018 at 09:46
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While David claimed not understanding Roger's lyrics and concepts, he was participating to Rick Davies' no less complicated Brother Where You Bound, which Waters could've easily written as well |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 09 2018 at 10:21
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"Gilmour yells his lyrics in Comfortably Numb? What did I just say about not listening to the same music?" I know.  I was like, what did I just read! Other than that intentional AHHH yelling (which is supposedly Waters), there is no yelling by anybody on that song and definitely not Gilmour. It's like these folks don't want guys to sing in a high register, like at all. And it isn't even that high. It's nice, pleasant, melodic singing.  But I seem to recall Bruce Dickinson being dubbed a screamer on here so it's par for the course. Actually, with exceptions like Don't Leave Me Now, Waters is better off not singing and resorting to that mean sounding speakeasy. When he does try to sing full out like The Trial, it's annoying (at least for me). I can put up with him on Nobody Home but even there when he goes Ooh Babe towards the end, it sounds whiny because he has a very weak high register. While Waters sang the second half (including last verse) of Dogs in the studio with gusto, Gilmour frequently sang the whole thing live. Gilmour has sung most of the Floyd repertoire from at least Meddle through to Wall many times live. One song where Gilmour did maybe pull too much chest is Time. If you take the recent Pompeii performance, he is having to holler it out because he never learnt to sing with a mixed voice. Off topic, but I would rate Gabriel and Collins both as better singers than either of them. |