Prog World Cup-Final: Frank Zappa- Yes
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=116688
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Topic: Prog World Cup-Final: Frank Zappa- Yes
Posted By: Morningrise
Subject: Prog World Cup-Final: Frank Zappa- Yes
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 02:47
| Pick your favourite |
Replies:
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 03:33
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Besides 2-3 albums by Zappa who I considered excellent, in rest I've never got into his music, Yes for me by far |
Posted By: Libor10
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 03:35
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Yes get my vote. Only Genesis or King Crimson could be their rivals in my case... ------------- 
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 03:48
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Ridiculous final pairing...zappa isn't in the same class as the yes men...Howe a far superior string-smith for a start off... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 03:56
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Yep ------------- 
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Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 04:33
| Yes, I vote for Zappa. Who else ? |
Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 04:34
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Yes! Very few other artists would stand a chance of beating them in my assessment. Zappa isn't one of them ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 05:08
| None of these are among my personal favorites but I do enjoy most of their classics - but I think Zappa has more of them.... more classics I mean |
Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 05:28
Agreed. That's why Zappa gets my vote... ------------- He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore |
M27Barney wrote:Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 05:33
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Oui Si Ja Da |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 05:44
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Yes gets the nod. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 06:13
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Zappa just to be ornery ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 06:53
Haha. Touché. While I enjoy several Yes albums, Zappa also gets my vote. Yes' Fragile was one of the most important Prog albums to me in my teens, but hearing "Peaches en Regalia" on classic rock radio (what was called The Electric Lunch) was one of those experiences that led me to explore a lot of interesting music and played a part in me finding my way here years later (I found it so joyous). While Zappa is hit or miss for me, I posted this in another thread, and this is a good example of what I love about certain music by Zappa (generally I prefer his instrumentals). As for the pairing being ridiculous, I disagree (but I try to keep an open mind as I could be convinced to change my mind with the right arguments -- I'm no musicologist). While I would have loved to see Can make it to the end, for this World Cup with one band/artist per country, I think having Zappa up against Yes is a very sensible pairing (that said, King Crimson would have been my choice for the British representative,or maybe Pink Floyd even if not so quintessentially Prog). Zappa is a legend in rock, has been very culturally significant I would argue, and I would think Zappa to be more historically significant to 20th Century music overall than Yes, and his contributions to progressive rock forms are very significant. I also would have thought that Zappa would have had the best chance of the choices to give Yes a run for its money. I can't think of a better one from outside the UK to pair against Yes in the finals than Zappa. Out of curiosity, what would be the last (EDIT, I mean LEAST, not last) ridiculous pairing for the finals in people's minds where they think that the non-UK choice could potentially give the UK choice some decent competition (noting that only one of the finalists could come from the UK)? Some have said that Rush vs. Yes would have made the most sense, but I don't think that Rush would fare that well. Perhaps some other non-UK bands included in prog categories could be paired against Yes, and the one that does the best against Yes wins. By the way, here's a BBC Radio 4 documentary available on BBC Sounds: Freak Out! The Frank Zappa Story: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00770gq" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00770gq Listened to another the other day there on Kraftwerk: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00899w2" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00899w2 Not sure if they have one on Yes there. |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 07:21
I dunno man, many consider Frank one of the greatest of all-time; I certainly do. That being said I prefer Yes slightly more overall, as I think they're more consistent. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 07:25
| not surprised by the final poll, seeing the bands throughout the polls, it's kinda predictable |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 07:35
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love some Zappa but Yes ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 08:11
According to Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitarists Howe is at 69 & Zappa is at 22. Not that I rate RS for anything but to dismiss Zappa's playing in such an offhand way is remarkable. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 08:13
| The classic 70's period YES was at the top, after that, Drama an on, not so much (in fact, 80's Yes is quite simplistic and boring sometimes). Zappa was always more consistent, though others might disagree, and his output was amazing, so ZAPPA gets my vote. |
Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 08:53
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Lost all faith in all polls post Brexit, but surely Zappa is in a totally different class to the Accrington milkman and his mates from Yes. Based on this I am sure Yes will win by a landslide...ho hum! ------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005 |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 09:04
That list is a joke. Right? I would concede that Hendrix was probably no 1 on innovation alone. But after that? All bets are off... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 09:11
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All Rolling Stone's lists are a joke, that's their main purpose, they are clickbait. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 10:22
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Zappa.World class composer and ran the finishing school for a huge number of greatest individual musicians in the world. Re: Yes. I still listen to Yessongs, but the classic era studio albums just sound too boxed in and sterile. And even if I held that era in higher regard, the last 25years of albums and the general disregard that it appears the band members have treated each other is a complete turn off. Don't get me wrong, before I was exposed to the wide world of prog and only knew of the big label bands, Yes was way up there for me. Saw the Union tour 3 times and it was amazing. But there has been nothing that I find remotely interesting or listenable about them since. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 10:34
I'm not a guitarist (well, a very amateur player at best), nor have I done diligent research to come to a conclusion, but I would have thought that Howe was a considerably better guitarist from a technical ability-to-play passages perspective (though Zappa's skills on the guitar by the mid-70s at least were very accomplished). Zappa's strength was an ability to improvise and experiment on guitar (not sure how good Howe was with improvisation). That said, for me Zappa's strength is not so much as a guitarist, but as a bandleader and composer, and he certainly worked with many highly skilled musicians (the guitar is not what originally attracted me to Zappa's music). He definitely had a good sense of rhythm and became well versed in music theory. I would posit that, at least when it comes to classical guitar, John Williams (not the film composer) was better than Howe, but that doesn't mean that I think that his band http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1134" rel="nofollow - Sky was better than Yes by any means. A fun poll might be to compare Howe's 1975 album Beginnings with Zappa's 1975 album One Size Fits All. Or Howe's album "Guitar Player" vs. Zappa's "Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar" (Zappa really shredded on that one). Anyway, Howe and Zappa strike me as different enough kinds of musicians/ artists and so are not ones that I would normally readily compare. EDIT to add: Some interesting comparisons can be made with their forays into "classical music", and one can find other musical similarities beyond that they both played guitar. |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 10:41
| Love Frank but Yes gets my vote. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 11:36
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FZ. Yes had one amazing decade where they lead the prog world in the breaking of new musical ground and their trilogy of CTTE, TFTO & Relayer could be the greatest 3 studio album run in prog history...but...Zappa routinely broke musical ground over the 60's, 70's, 80's & 90's in rock, prog, jazz fusion, musique concrete, modern classical, avant garde, etc all the while being a training ground for some of the most skilled musicians of our day. The only possible opponent that would have caused me to not give this final vote to FZ would have been Crimson. In many ways, Fripp and FZ are very similar. Both were clearly the leaders of their respective bands, both ventured into many forms in and outside 'rock', both re-invented their musical directions many times breaking new ground. Yes is an amazing band. FZ was an amazing composer and I believe his music will live far beyond that of Yes. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 12:50
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YES. Frank's brilliant, but the fact is I don't enjoy as many of his albums as I do Yes'... ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 13:05
 ------------- He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 14:13
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Franky ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 14:28
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Yes, Yes and thrice Yes! ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: Dopeydoc
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 14:44
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In one Time and one Word: YES |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 16:01
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This was a very tough one. I absolutely love Yes(they are the first 3 letters of my username for a reason). They are my favorite 'classic 70's' prog band and I feel that's how it should be. But 62 albums and most of it high quality.. for me that beats anyone. The matter gets further complicated by the fact that I'm sometimes/often turned off by Zappa's lyrics, whereas Yes often has beautiful ones. Went with Zappa cause he needed the vote more. My head hurts lol. |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 17:24
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I do love Frank Zappa, but I love Yes more consistently across their albums. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 17:51
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Yes, for sure. When it comes to prog world cups, only a top british band can beat a top british band. [Football joke removed]  ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 18:56
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Creamcheese ------------- |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 21:16
| Yes, very easily, for me. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 21:18
I guess the ones with the best chances to give some battle to the British giants would be Zappa himself, indeed, Rush, and PFM. I really can't think of another one. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 05 2018 at 23:52
Interesting final matchup. Both Yes and Uncle Frank are worthy of each other. FZ is an artist I admire more than I enjoy - his innovation is only matched by King Crimson (now that would have been a contest). Yes, however, is one of my favorite bands ever, so I had to vote for them.  ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 05:04
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What is the point of voting if you think A is better than B but vote B BECAUSE IT HAS LESS VOTES! hahaha ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 05:06
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Isn't that how Trump got in? ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 05:58
| As a long time big Yes fan this is kind of a no brainer for me. Nothing against Uncle Frank since I think he was great but still no match for the little band that wouldn't take no for an answer. :D |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 07:09
Nope - that was people not voting. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 07:19
  ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 07:59
Neat idea. I wish there were no secret votes and one could see the usernames of everyone who voted in these polls. Even when I vote in elections, I make a point of announcing who I am voting for near the ballot box in not so subtle conversation which may be taken as inappropriate. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 08:05
I think Can and Univers Zero also of those that went into the competition might have done reasonably well. EDIT: Forgot to mention Magma. Zappa is not getting as many votes in this poll as I expected. |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 09:00
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I voted for the first Prog Rock musician, the most innovative musician, the best guitarist, the first to use a wah wah pedal, the one to whom Jazz-Rock Fusion can be partly be attributed to, the one who has composed music for orchestras several times over, the one that is unparalleled in metrical complexity in both composed pieces and improvised guitar work, and the one who had sh*tload of milestone albums. The only advantage I would Steve Howe’s playing over Frank Zappa’s playing is that Howe was cleaner. That, however, is what people like about Zappa’s playing; technical difficulty but with feeling and a fair amount of grit. And I say all this, by the way, as someone who plays guitar quite well. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 14:52
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love Yes but for personal reasons voting Zappa haha perhaps I can get back on Uncle Ian's good side... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 15:53
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This one is a proper draw. Frank wins on orginality and adventure but the best Yes material moves me in a way that Frank hardly ever achieved. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 21:40
Oh yes, Magma too. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 23:32
| ^ I'm curious to how Miles Davis would have done up against one of the British giants. I have a feeling the bigger the contrast the better he'd do. As many who's into electric Miles will have King Crimson (+Can, Zappa and Magma) as their favorite "UK giant" - and some would have a hard time choosing. While most people won't have to think too hard about voting for either Genesis or Miles. So I guess more polarized options would work in his favor. |
Posted By: Morningrise
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 01:34
| Poll's over. Yes wins the competition. Final score: 40-22 |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 11:56
Yeah, I was wondering the very same thing. Miles Davis might have fared better due to more polarisation *cue comments such as "WTF does Kind of Blue have to do with Prog?"* ;) While Davis would get my vote most certainly for his electric Miles period, I suspect that Yes would still very easily take it in a Prog World Cup, and such a poll would get quite a few complaints, especially from those who are not familiar with his most relevant to JRF albums and those who think such Fusion does not have a strong-enough relation to Prog. Such a poll would be an interesting experiment. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 02:18
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Two of my absolute faves, but I have to give it to Yes. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 16:33
| How could I not vote for Yes ?? |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 19:48
What? I thought you were a true Zappa fan. No I understand man, kinda feel the same way myself.
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 20:06
Nice tournament, thanks for running. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 01:59
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 08:38
| Forever YES!!! |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 12:18
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Poll's over.....? Good thing I voted for Yes before it closed. :) Love me some Zappa (and I have many of his lp's either on vinyl or cd...)....but this is Yes we are talking about and even though Yes stopped making good tunes early on in my opinion....the Yes album, Fragile, CTTE, and Relayer are iconic progressive rock...period....and imo this is about progressive rock. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: April 18 2020 at 11:52
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YES......Yes ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: April 18 2020 at 13:17
| Yes |
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: April 18 2020 at 13:46
| I've really been into Yes lately, but I'm a total Zappa fanboy so that's what I voted for. |
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: April 18 2020 at 16:30
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Zappa. Especially for his early work. |