King Crimson - Lizard (1970)
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121952
Printed Date: April 27 2025 at 21:00
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Topic: King Crimson - Lizard (1970)
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Subject: King Crimson - Lizard (1970)
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 01:18
 What a unique era; what are your thoughts on this one? Like it? Don't like it? Why?! My official review will be up soon. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Replies:
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 02:18
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if push comes to shove, then ultimately Lizard will be my fave Crimson album The only weaker points are Lady Of Dancing Waters, and the Big Top album recapitulative
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Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 02:24
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I love the first side. Second took a bit longer. But yes, a really solid album. Happy Family is my favourite. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 03:23
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my favorite KC album -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 03:45
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I wouldn't say it's my favourite KC album, but it's among the best, although I discovered it only very late. It's very fresh, original, playful, and unique, and I was delighted to see KC playing quite a bit of it live recently. I don't think there's any album of any band that sounds like it. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 04:11
| Not my favourite (Court is) but still one of my biggest KC favourites (I think only Court & Red comes over it, Wake is also very near). |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 05:58
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So different. So odd. So weird. So good. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 08:39
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The idiotic laughter at the end of indoor games is atrocious...even worse than the easy money one. ------------- |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 08:52
I saw the laugh as a pisstake of the hangers on backstage who talk loud, laugh atrociously like the end of Indoor Games, and when asked their favourite part of the gig? "Oh I didn't see the gig, I was chatting backstage!". My clues for thinking this is looking at the lyrics and smiling thinking "Yeah. I've met people like that!". |
Barbu wrote:Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 08:56
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^ I had a chat with vocalist Gordon Haskell at a club he played at. He said that he couldn't keep straight face while trying to pretend laugh and it really pissed Fripp off. He was glad it did and has disowned the album. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 09:14
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^^ Yeah, I read that Haskell didn't like the album. Lizard is pretty 'out there' even by KC standards, but I still enjoy the album. It's by no means my favourite, but I give it a spin every now and then. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 09:16
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Haskell is the definite low point of the album, he clearly sounds like a guy who wants to be elsewhere. The rest is awesome, especially Bolero, charming and splendid and one of the high points of the whole Crimson discography. ------------- |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 10:00
------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 10:13
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A solid album, nice 4 stars from me and a big improvement on wake ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 10:14
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I love both laughs. I also like Adrian Belew’s Laughing Man off the his Desire Caught by the Tail album. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 11:12
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Not my personal favorite by them...but imho...classic Crimson.....an eerie wonderful album. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 17:45
| I like it overall. Its peak to me is the opening number "Cirkus". Wonderful. It's low point is definitely "Happy Family". dreadful. "Lady of the Dancing Water", "Prince Rupert Awakes" and "Bolero" are all really good too. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 17:52
I love "Happy Family". quite a satirical song about the Beatles ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 18:01
my teenage self thought not of the equipment when I deliberately dragged the needle across the LP on that song. Maybe I should revisit it now? I did grow to like Indoor Games
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 18:30
exactly the same for me. Love the album. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 19:42
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I can understand why someone does not like "Happy Family", but how can someone not love "Lady of the Dancing Water"? a wonderfully melancholy song with beautiful instrumentation ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 22:51
| ^Well, I think it´s weakest track in Lizard, although fit very well in the end of a-side. It´s just so obvious, for example "I Talk to the Wind", "Cadence & Cascade" & "the Letters" are much more interesting melancholy songs with beautiful instrumentation. I really love "Happy Family". |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: January 10 2020 at 23:03
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It's confused and doesn't know what it wants to be. ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 01:21
Dude yes thank you glad I'm not the only one! That's the only bad part of the entire album for me! I can't believe they let that go on as long as they did. They could have cut that like 25 seconds sooner. Minor smudge. I love every track. Happy Family is super catchy with its melody. I had no clue it was about the Beatles! Happy family one hand clap, four went by and one came back... Indoor Games might be my favorite at the moment. "Walking through the parlor in nothing but your armor." RULES! As a fusion fan I lean towards this one a bit more. The free sax, flute, etc. reminds me of all the best parts of early VDGG on HtoHE, lots of Fusion-era Zappa noises (even though this was first); I hear lots of Waka/Jawaka-esque movements in here. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 02:21
I'm just not a fan of these ballad/ballad-y type songs. Every other song has a wonderful frantic energy, which resonates very strongly with me. (I realize this type of song isn't suppose to have frantic energy and I'm sure most people enjoy the slight break.) That said, I never skip it when listening to Lizard and do like it, but if it never existed I wouldn't be any worse off. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 03:21
Dude, VdGG's Jackson puts the Crimson players to shame ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 03:45
the Beatles even appear on the album cover, including Yoko Ono who appears as a ghost out of a bottle held by John Lennon  left to right: George Harrison alias Cousin Silas, Paul McCartney alias Brother Judas, Yoko Ono as ghost out of the bottle, John Lennon alias Nasty Jonah and Ringo Starr alias Uncle Rufus ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 05:12
This is amazing! I never noticed this! Now it can't be unseen. Thank you!  ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 09:24
 ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 10:06
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keep in mind that the album was released 1970 Dec 10th in the UK (about 3 weeks later in the US) and the Beatles broke up in 1970. all 4 members also released solo albums that year; they "blew their own canoes" (this is actually a double metaphor that also refers to their drug abuse). lots of other references to the Beatles in the lyrics, like for example "each to his revolving doors" (again a double metaphor referring to their split and their album "Revolver"), "BEAT the clock", "Sergeant mirror", "barber's win" (a reference to "Penny Lane"), "silver rolls from golden rock" (referring to their Rolls-Royces and their golden records) ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 10:19
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I find the lyrics very vague but I take your word for it. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 12:16
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The lyrics are a bit vague but the Beatles aspect on the cover art is well known and has been written about many times over the years. https://imgur.com/gallery/JgkDS" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/gallery/JgkDS ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 12:23
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I don't consider the lyrics to be vague. Don't forget they are by Pete
Sinfield, so you have to expect some odd metaphors. But the references
are obvious; Jean listed a few of them.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 12:27
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are they making fun of the Beatles or paying homage, or something in between? Or is it just clever commentary I just listened to the song and don't disdain it as much as I used to. It's very weird, but seems like a bit of a follow on from Cat Food as far as the jazzy piano, just crazier. I don't really care for the vocal melody or meter at all but it is out there, which I have more appreciation for than I used to
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 12:32
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I think it is something in between, with some mourning about their splitting-up added for good measure. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 22:36
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The thing with Lizard is that it starts out as a typical Crimson record, i.e., the tritones that open up Cirkus. And then it goes in so many directions. At the time I never cared much for Side 2...I appreciate it more now, some 40 years on, but Happy Family and Indoor Games and that initial blast that is Cirkus are pure bliss. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 01:11
I just had an awesome post and the site deleted it when I went to reply, lmao. I'll just write my review and get it all out then! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 01:13
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For real though - I can't believe it's taken me this long to get into this one, guys and gals! What a prog gem in every sense of the word. I love the smoky early 70's production (you know, where you can "taste" the snare drum), to the jazz cirkus from hell themes, to the almost Zappa/Beefheart like free-jazz sections. Whatever the hell Fripp was on, it was working LOL. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 01:25
| I just don't listen to it enough to have a strong opinion but Cirkus is certainly a great track. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 01:48
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Happy Family is incredibly catchy. The first time I heard it I immediately associated it with some description of an oriental family. Then I saw The Beatles info, LOL. "Taking aphrodisiac..." GOLD! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 04:53
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to BaldJean for great postings regarding the Beatles and to Frenetic Zetetic for the great choice of avatar! |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 13 2020 at 01:11
Yes thank you BaldJean for all that KC wisdom in such a short period - and thank you for noticing the avatar switch! My "gimmick" is to switch to the album I'm in the process of reviewing; it'll keep me on task to meet my goal of more PA reviews in 2020! It'll be posted in a day or two and I'll link from this thread so you all can read it   .------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 13 2020 at 04:06
"lots of other references to the Beatles in the lyrics, like for example "each to his revolving doors" (again a double metaphor referring to their split and their album "Revolver"), "BEAT the clock", "Sergeant mirror", "barber's win" (a reference to "Penny Lane"), "silver rolls from golden rock" (referring to their Rolls-Royces and their golden records)" ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 11:18
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I've been inspired by all of the many King Crimson appreciation threads here on PA to give King Crimson's "Lizard" album another listen for the first time in well over forty years, and amazingly, I'm beginning to rather like it too. I may even go out and buy it one day. Wonders never cease. One can only presume that I was too young to truly appreciate the complexities of the "Lizard" album back in the 1970's when I was still in my teens.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 11:39
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^ Changed your mind after 40 years of having heard it once. Will wonders never cease. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 12:10
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 15:19
Islands is much easer to get into.... because there is very little to dig & get into.   |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 15:37
I still need to pick up ITWoP and Islands 30th anniversary discs. Thanks for the reminder! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 15:38
To me Islands is something of a, for my money, too often buried treasure of King Crimson -- it doesn't tend to get near the recognition of other KC albums. I dig the Islands' not so buried treasures. Just beware the foul pirate booty of pirated copies as well as the booty shakin' DJ Blackbuns' Pirates of the Caribbean Islands Remix. ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 15:58
You never know, I might even grow to like Larks' Tongues in Aspic one day.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 16:04
I've been listening to the Islands album today, and I'm liking that album too. I'm choosing my favourite songs from each of eight King Crimson albums to post on the "Make Your Own King Crimson Album" thread, so it's given me a good excuse to listen to all of King Crimson's albums again for the first time in many many years.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 21:52
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 01:41
Hey pal, if you don't like LTIA, you can get the hell out!  Just playing! I'm amazed you're not into KC (I had no idea you were a little older than myself!) with some of your other posts, though! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 01:52
Islands is very short on ideas, considering te band was already on the road well before the recording sessions. There are two tracks that are recycled ideas, including one from the GG&F era and another dating from Poseidon or even Court (I believe)... The main attraction IMHO is the "Tippett Boys' interventions (Keith Tippet / piano - Robin Miller / oboe - Mark Charig / cornet - Harry Miller / double bass) and interactions with Collins' wind instruments on the opening & closing tracks (but then again, this was already the case in Lizrad, and much better therer). The only tracks that really tinkers my bell is the sizzling Letters. Formantera, Sailor and Islands are OK, but no more. Furthermore, Prelude is a bit of a bore (I liked it yesterdecades), and a
bit of a filler (I mean, it's ok - naive - but it's got nothing to do
on a Crimson album). Not to mention the US (North Am, really) original release's atrocious sleeve artwork
 (even as an innersleeve it sucks) |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 03:20
Edit: Just noticed it´s quite different in US pressing. Yes, you´re right, what a boring cover comparing to UK version.
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Posted By: Foxprog
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 03:33
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Ahh the classic Lizard. Never Will I get bored of this masterpiece. I felt instantly in love after hearing "Cirkus" for the first time. "Indoor Games" is the weakest track for me. Title track is a strong contender to surpass the legendary "Starless". Jon Anderson does fantastic job in the opening + it host's the best Bolero in this planet. And I think Island is a great album too. "Formentera Lady" + the title track belong to the highest class of Crimsonisque... |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 04:50
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I purchased and heard "Lizard" for first time just over a week ago. Starting from the late '70s until a few years ago, my only two King Crimson albums were "In the Court of the Crimson King" and "Beat". Some tracks are great, other tracks I could live without, and the albums overall did not appeal to me enough to seek any more King Crimson music. But since visiting PA, I felt the need to obtain more King Crimson albums for educational purposes. It started with "In the Wake of Poseidon" which seemed to me like an inferior clone of the debut. Then I got "Red", which I quite like and even prefer it to the debut, though I don't see it as a masterpiece like others here. Then I got "Discipline", which starts quite well even it does sound a bit like Talking Heads, but by the time it's finished I'm really quite sick of Fripp's guitar style. Then I got "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", an album whose appeal eludes me. At that stage, I considered that was enough King Crimson for me. But then I decided to get one more album: "Lizard". This album is more in the style of the debut than the last three albums I got, but is also quite different from the debut. Although I'm still not familiar enough with the album to come to any conclusions about the album, I think it may eventually become my favourite King Crimson album over "Red".
------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 23:50
| Perhaps you should check out some live King Crimson. For apreciating the Larks Tongues era, you might want to check out Collectlable King Crimson Vol 1, with better versions of Easy Money and Exiles (as well as having Larks Tongues part 2, and my very favourite version of Starless). Then for 80's Crimson, and the double trio album, there's Vroom Vroom... mostly all that I like from 80's Crimson is included, and in better versions (because of the double trio). And last, some new live Crimson from the recent tours, which have songs from all their eras. |