Terry Kath vs Frank Zappa
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=127356
Printed Date: April 29 2025 at 11:12
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Topic: Terry Kath vs Frank Zappa
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Subject: Terry Kath vs Frank Zappa
Date Posted: September 22 2021 at 22:57
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Which of these American jazz-rock-psych fusion players do you prefer. Strictly on their guitar playing, not on their singing or songwriting or which artist you prefer overall. I think it's Kath for me. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Replies:
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: September 22 2021 at 23:15
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FZ, easy. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: September 22 2021 at 23:59
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Zappa without any hesitasion. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 00:48
| Voted for Kath because he may need some help against one of the greats of music! (and not just prog) |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 01:04
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Zappa easily. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 04:22
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As much as I like Frank's playing this one goes to Terry Kath, easily. Both sound like they have similar playing styles. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 04:37
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Where's the option for six of one or a half dozen of the other? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 04:44
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FZ ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: SuperMetro
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 07:15
| Frank for me, because I think that his music sounds more intricate. I like what Zappa does better than Kath. Both of them are still excellent at their instruments though. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 07:33
If You Leave Me Now with just two choices, then Chicago wins easily. After all, they're a Hard Habit to Break. 
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 07:41
Cetera wrote both songs you mentioned there. Poll's about Terry Kath. At least make a judgement on songs Kath wrote...
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Psychedelic Paul wrote:Posted By: yogev
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 07:56
| Terry Kath without even thinking, One of the coolest guitar players. Zappa have very similar guitar playing, but for me he's a little less interesting (I'm talking just about the playing). |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 08:18
Baby, What a Big Surprise that you don't like my poll choice, but It's Hard to Say I'm Sorry.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 08:30
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 09:27
I never said anything about your choice, your comment made no sense.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 09:31
How am I insulting Paul? Are you serious? We cannot disagree to what someone says anymore? Me, self-righteous? Thank you for the insult. If you really have a problem with me, please PM me, we can work things out. |
Posted By: SuperMetro
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 09:37
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[/QUOTE]Are you the poll police? So instead of voting, you choose to insult Paul AGAIN? Get a grip man. Your self-righteousness irritates me so please stop. [/QUOTE]
Well, all he said was that Kath did not write those songs, but maybe that user is talking about his guitar work in those songs.
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Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:16
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As much as I respect Terry Kath (especially in the early years of Chicago, up to Chicago XI), I have to say it is hard for anyone to beat FZ as both guitarist and all around musician, at least in my book. People use the word genius a bit too liberally, but if anyone deserved to be called a musical genius, it is Zappa. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:34
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Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 11:53
The answer is yes to both questions and you can see it on the album "Hot Rats". the year 1969 was very important for rock history, like King Crimson and Miles Davis, on the album "Hot Rats" Frank Zappa generates a paradigmatic musical work, this album (together with "In A Silent Way") generated the fussion between jazz and rock and the influence it generated from this work in the musical field is immense, it´s a journey full of emotions condensed in 38 minutes. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 12:47
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Most of the time when Kath's name is mentioned it's usually for his solo on '25 or 6 to 4'. As solos go it's almost as good as it gets but I prefer his solo on 'Sing a Mean Tune, Kid' (Chicago III). It's a long song so if you want to skip to where he starts playing guitar go to 4:20. Her plays from there to the end. |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 14:34
I agree with you about "Hot Rats", but it is just one of the many examples of FZ's improvisational and compositional skills. If you haven't heard his jazz or classical compositions, then you are missing out on a lot of what Frank was all about. His improv skills probably stand out the most in his work, but his compositional skills really shine in the London Symphony albums, in "Boulez Conducts Zappa: The Perfect Stranger", in "Civilization Phaze III", "Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison", "Dance Me This", and so on. Any one with ties to music history, theory or composition will be able to hear this, and anyone that really knows his music will also know this and his love of music by Varèse Recommended site if you want to know more about Frank's serious side: https://www.zappa-analysis.com/index.html" rel="nofollow - Frank Zappa's musical language (zappa-analysis.com) Here are two versions of Dupree's Paradise: With orchestra: With his band: ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 15:13
I can only wholeheartedly agree with this. For me FZ is maybe the Salvador Dali of music: not necessarily the best but definitely a genius in his art. ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 16:52
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Re T Cat: Yes I've listened to my share of Frank, and I also own a lot of albums by Boulez and Varese, and really those two go a little deeper. As for knowing my theory and composition, thats what my graduate degree is in and thats how I make my living, teaching theory and such. If you like Frank, thats cool, there are some things I like here and there too. |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 17:14
I disagree and here's why. Parker couldn't compose anything like Mozart, and similarly Mozart couldn't improvise anything like Parker. To be a genius you don't have to be able to do everything, and certainly you shouldn't be expected to better the masters of the styles that preceded yours. Parker could compose, yes, but he composed like himself. Confirmation doesn't sound like anything Mozart would've written. Also, Mozart could improvise, but I would be absolutely astonished if his improv sounded anything like Charlie Parker soloing on Now's The Time. Yet history looks at both of them as geniuses, so clearly you don't have to be able to do everything every genius who came before or after you did to earn the title. I share the opinion that Zappa was a musical genius, and he proved it in the way many rock and roll geniuses proved it: masterfully pushing the boundaries of the music he played. He didn't have to improvise as well as John Coltrane (and honestly, who can?) because he was Frank Zappa and he had his own inimitable approach. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 21:15
| ^ Actually Mozart was known to be an extremely talented improviser. |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: September 23 2021 at 21:30
That's not what I'm disputing. He didn't play how Charlie Parker played. He played like himself. If Mozart's improv sounded anything close to be bop or ever involved a blues lick or a swung feel I will be fully flabbergasted. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: September 24 2021 at 00:11
| Terry Kath as a guitar player but in every other department Frank Zappa. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: September 24 2021 at 08:34
| Frank Zappa, one of the best guitarist I’ve known. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 24 2021 at 13:06
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Kath for his spur-of-the-moment fluidity. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 25 2021 at 11:49
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As a guitar player, it's Zappa. But I prefer to listen to Chicago, mostly their earlier music. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: September 27 2021 at 21:54
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I'm happy this wasn't a total blowout. I know the answer would be Zappa every time in a strictly Chicago vs. Zappa poll, but Kath vs. Zappa just on the merits of their guitar playing I had hope might be a fairer fight, and it seems I was right. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: September 27 2021 at 21:56
This is an excellent description of Kath's playing. I also love his rhythm work, because it's just so forceful. He creates an amount of thrust just strumming chords that usually only drummers can provide. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |