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What did you think "progressive rock" meant?

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Topic: What did you think "progressive rock" meant?
Posted By: paganinio
Subject: What did you think "progressive rock" meant?
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 15:24
What did you think "progressive rock" meant, when you first saw or heard of the term?

At this point in your life you probably never listened to any prog rock music yet. Even if you did listen to it (massive hits such as Comfortably Numb), you're unlikely to notice or identify the genre. Technically you can't identify the genre because you don't know about the term "progressive rock" yet.


So, at this point of your life, what did you think "progressive rock" refer to?  What kind of music did you think it was?




For me, the answer was really really laughable.  I thought it meant "rock music with a marching, pounding rhythm". For example an acoustic guitar track would not be progressive rock, but a song with a "boom boom boom" drum sound would be the typical progressive rock. LOL Completely wrong, obviously.


There's also the possible confusion with progressive house: Progressive House is so called as it is slow initially but builds up the tempo later on.


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Replies:
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 15:35
Nothing, really.

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obscurum per obscurius


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 15:59
Hi,

I think one of my reasons for not taking "progressive music" as seriously as I should, is NOT AN ISSUE with the music at all ... it is the an issue with fans that don't like music (in general) and can only listen to their favorites (in general), and then think that "porkessive music" is great, but "neo-pork" is much better, and should have much better representation by folks.

Essentially, I was there listening to the stuff from 1965 on, and my collection is a show of originality and creativity, and not just a favorite band ... although yeah ... I do have a heck of a lot of TD, KS, Gong and their family and so on, but all in all ... the worst part is the description of the music by non-musicians, that think they can write/create better music with a DAW than anyone else! And with no mistakes, of course!

You either listen to MUSIC or you don't ... and if you think you will be married to a style the rest of your life, in the end, you will forget the whole thing and maybe remember one band, and think about that one date you had with some blonde  yesteryear! 

I was there BEFORE anyone even thought of it all as "progressive", though some things were thought to be "art rock" and some were given a lot of credit for some nifty variations on classical music ... the one thing that "progressive music" folks do not have, btw ... !!! Fandom alone, would condemn that disease!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 16:10
I don't remember what I thought it meant when I first heard the term. Honestly, I probably read the term first in a music mag back in the 70's. I am sure it was in the context of reading about Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd.....

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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 17:35
I'm not sure. I just remember it being this term that meant rock music that was a bit weird and that you didn't really hear much on the radio. In more recent years it's become a bit of a buzzword though.

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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 17:36
Yes, Genesis, ELP and Pink Floyd, that was pretty much it for the first few years.

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 19:36
Never heard the term until the 90's, yet was listening to Zappa, Kansas, National Health, in the 70's. Then, it was labeled rock.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 20:24
I was searching for a type of music I could identify with, and a Friend told me about a band named "Jethro Tull." He said it was considered to be progressive rock because it pushed the boundaries of rock, taking influences from many different genres. It sounded interesting and I gave it a try. I was hooked. After that, I searched for bands that would do the same, and I discovered King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Genesis, Pink Floyd, etc.


Posted By: Hugh Manatee
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 21:41
I wasn't familiar with the term "progressive rock" when I first started listening to what would be considered "progressive rock" in the fullness of time. When I did contemplate the classification initially I thought it was just a song that broke the 3 minute time barrier, and later I considered it to be a genre that contained elements of all other genres, particularly jazz and classical, and then I thought it was an interdimensional donkey walking backwards through a cloud of tapioca and then I just stopped thinking about it and enjoyed what I was listening to...or not.


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I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 22:21
OP: bands of serious musicians making what was to them serious music with little concern for AM radio play--using jazz and classical sales and marketing norms as their standards. They were taking advantage of a small window of time in which record labels were willing to back the unexpected run in popularity of "experimental music" and their sales (DSOTM, Fragile, Houses of the HolyCrime of the Century, etc.) And then came stadium filling concerts . . .



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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 04 2022 at 22:57
These were my introduction to "progressive music."  Back then, I never once heard the term used in the US.  It was called "art rock" or "theater rock" if anything.  Prog as a term is ever worse.  Peter Banks hated that word.

September 22, 1972:  Yes with The Eagles, Arie Crown Theater, Chicago

October 10, 1972 - Wild Turkey & Jethro Tull, Stadium

April 20, 1973 - Peter Frampton & King Crimson, Kinetic Playground

August 1973 - Flash & Wishbone Ash, Auditorium Theater



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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 02:12
I heard it in the late 90s from a colleague. I told him the names of my favorite artists and he said, "so you like progressive only..."


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 02:58
To be honest, most of my school friends were into Yes, Genesis and ELP around 1973 but I don't remember what we called it. I'm really not sure when I first heard the term "progressive rock" but I'm pretty sure I always knew what it was once I'd heard it.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 05:52
I have no recollection of what I thought 47 years ago.

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Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 07:09
I was listening to the music before it got labelled!! 

Then again, I'm rapidly approaching 70!!


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 08:51
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Never heard the term until the 90's, yet was listening to Zappa, Kansas, National Health, in the 70's. Then, it was labeled rock.

I knew that kind of music as Art Rock and Jazz Rock until the mid-90's, once I realized some called it prog rock


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prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 09:10
we have this famous book from 1973; the term "progressive rock" is not used in it. the term "future rock" is used instead



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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 09:42
I thought it was a more forward-thinking type of rock, as opposed to metamorphic, igneous, and sedimentary.

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to meet anyone nose at nose
the walls have hearsay
he go to four feet
take the moon with the teeth
he has a good beak
the stone as roll not heap up not foam


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 10:16
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I have no recollection of what I thought 47 years ago.

I have no recollection of what I thought 4.7 hours ago! Big smile


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 10:22
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I have no recollection of what I thought 47 years ago.

I have no recollection of what I thought 4.7 hours ago! Big smile
Yes, unfortunately, that's true too. LOL

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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 10:31
Progressive Rock = Great music that you won't see featured on any radio station playlist. Confused


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 10:52
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Progressive Rock = Great music that you won't see featured on any radio station playlist. Confused

Check this out -  https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/" rel="nofollow - https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/


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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 11:55
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Progressive Rock = Great music that you won't see featured on any radio station playlist. Confused

Check this out -  https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/" rel="nofollow - https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Nice. Clap

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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 13:54
I think I was annoyed because if I remember it correctly, I heard it in the early eighties used for bands I already loved, and they said something to the effect that this music is not cool and never was, and we had all been cheated. or whatever.


Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 14:15
All rocks are forward thinking-new ones are continuously being made, deformed, and recycled.
I remember art rock being used a lot in the early days, and the word progressive apparently became common around the time of ELP’s appearance at California Jam. It was definitely used most commonly in reference to Tull, Genesis, ELP, and Yes in those heady days.


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 16:34
I grew up in the 1970s in a small, Ontario, Canada town; it wasn't a hotbed for obscure or off the beaten track progressive rock, but I first heard and saw a "progressive rock" group in 1974 on tv-it was supergroup ELP. I remember kids at school using the term progressive rock at the time, and it kind of meant for me, rock music that was cerebral and complex and something beyond the regular music you would hear on the AM radio. Of course, it is really way more than just that, but I was a late bloomer when it came to serious listening to progressive rock. I was just superficially aware of it in the 1970s and did not collect and listen to it at that time; It wasn't until 1985, when a friend lent me an album called Illusions On A Double Dimple by a group called Triumvirat that was unknown to me, and right then when I heard it, I knew I had to delve much further into the genre, as that Triumvirat record instantly epitomised for me what was really progressive rock, and was definitely "underground" and "off the beaten track" in a very special way.
               


Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 18:02
I don’t remember, I don’t recall. I have no memory of anything at all.

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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 03:24
I think I first heard the term in a rock/metal magazine in the early 80's, around the time when Marillion had released Script.

I don't think the term meant much to me, beyond being used to define bands who wrote and performed longer songs than hard rock/metal bands, and invariably used keyboards.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 04:07
I can speak as one of those really old farts who first used the word "progressive" to describe music, though the term "progressive rock" maybe came later.
We described music as progressive if it eschewed the idea of the 3 minute single and was less commercially focussed, using more sophisticated and advanced levels of musicianship and developing complex ideas through longer songs. The main early bands we included in the category were Traffic, The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, King Crimson, Colosseum and Barclay James Harvest.


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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 06:40
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Progressive Rock = Great music that you won't see featured on any radio station playlist. Confused

Hi,

You'll have to excuse me this intrusion, but Guy Guden couldn't careless if it was progressive or porkgressive ... and played it all starting in 1974, in a COMMERCIAL RADIO STATION (FM) ... that ended up being the number one station in the area for a long time. AND, I have shows to prove it ... over the past year I sent Guy over 300 hours of his shows up to 1981 when I left the area. The listing alone in those is not only insane, makes PA look really poor for the awful listening habits we tend to preach about ... we don't even discuss music ... we discuss one small nothing element of it!

You won't see it today, that's for sure, mostly as those stations are OWNED by the corporate structure that America has become. The internet has a lot of podcasts, but in so many ways this is like listening to your public station in town and the music caters to a "style" a lot more than it does the music itself. 

I tried it here in Portland, and when I got there the first question the lady asked me, was "what kind of music are you going to play?" (despite an application that she obviously did not bother looking at!) ... and I looked at her, if you knew and cared about music you would never ask that question! And walked out! Today, 25 years later, the station does play a couple of "different things" but they are all buried under the awful cultural labels for everything. It's like the music doesn't matter ... the label does!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 07:04
In the late 60s to early 70s, late night FM DJs in Dallas would play album sides or really long songs that would blend into each other for 20 or 30 minutes of continuous music. Such music was called underground rock or progressive rock. The term progressive meant not geared toward top 40 playlists.


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 14:11
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I have no recollection of what I thought 47 years ago.

I have no recollection of what I thought 4.7 hours ago! Big smile
I can remember very well what I thought 55 years ago.
But I can go upstairs and 55 seconds later I can't remember why the hell I went up the stairs!


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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 08:30
I had used the term art rock up until then. "Progressive rock" snuck up on me, and I thought it a tad precious (and pompous). I knew what it meant, but it seemed as if someone had gone a little overboard in its inception. I use it, but warily.

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 08:55

When I first heard the term "Progressive Rock" I thought to myself, "That is probably a broad  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre" rel="nofollow - genre  of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMartin199871%E2%80%9375-8" rel="nofollow - [8]  that developed in the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom" rel="nofollow - United Kingdom  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States" rel="nofollow - United States  throughout the mid-to late 1960s, peaking in the early 1970s. Initially termed " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_pop" rel="nofollow - progressive pop ", the style was an outgrowth of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_music" rel="nofollow - psychedelic  bands who abandoned standard  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music" rel="nofollow - pop  traditions in favour of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentation_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - instrumentation  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - compositional  techniques more frequently associated with  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz ,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , or  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music" rel="nofollow - classical music . Additional elements contributed to its " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_music" rel="nofollow - progressive " label: lyrics were more poetic, technology was harnessed for new sounds, music approached the condition of " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_music" rel="nofollow - art ", and the studio, rather than the stage,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recording_studio_as_an_instrument" rel="nofollow - became the focus of musical activity , which often involved creating music for listening rather than dancing.

Progressive rock is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, involving a continuous move between  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formalism_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - formalism  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclecticism_in_music" rel="nofollow - eclecticism . Due to its historical reception, the scope of progressive rock is sometimes limited to a stereotype of long solos, long albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill. While the genre is often cited for its merging of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_culture" rel="nofollow - high culture  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_culture" rel="nofollow - low culture , few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree, and only a handful of groups, such as  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer" rel="nofollow - Emerson, Lake & Palmer , purposely emulated or referenced classical music.

The genre coincided with the mid-1960s economic boom that allowed record labels to allocate more creative control to their artists, as well as the new journalistic division between "pop" and "rock" that lent generic significance to both terms. It saw a high level of popularity in the early-to-mid-1970s, but faded soon after.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_wisdom" rel="nofollow - Conventional wisdom  holds that the rise of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock" rel="nofollow - punk rock  caused this, but several more factors contributed to the decline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHegartyHalliwell20111-9" rel="nofollow - [9]  Music critics, who often labelled the concepts as "pretentious" and the sounds as "pompous" and "overblown", tended to be hostile towards the genre or to completely ignore it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTELucky20007-10" rel="nofollow - [10]  After the late 1970s, progressive rock fragmented in numerous forms. Some bands achieved commercial success well into the 1980s (albeit with changed lineups and more compact song structures) or crossed into  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonic_pop" rel="nofollow - symphonic pop ,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_rock" rel="nofollow - arena rock , or  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_wave_music" rel="nofollow - new wave .

Early groups who exhibited progressive features are retroactively described as " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-prog" rel="nofollow - proto-prog ". The  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_scene" rel="nofollow - Canterbury scene , originating in the late 1960s, denotes a subset of progressive rock bands who emphasised the use of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_instrument" rel="nofollow - wind instruments , complex chord changes and long improvisations.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_in_Opposition" rel="nofollow - Rock in Opposition , from the late 1970s, was more  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-garde" rel="nofollow - avant-garde , and when combined with the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury" rel="nofollow - Canterbury  style, created  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-prog" rel="nofollow - avant-prog . In the 1980s, a new subgenre,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - neo-progressive rock , enjoyed some commercial success, although it was also accused of being derivative and lacking in innovation.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-progressive" rel="nofollow - Post-progressive  draws upon newer developments in popular music and the avant-garde since the mid-1970s."


But was just my first guess based on the name though.



Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 09:50
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

When I first heard the term "Progressive Rock" I though to myself, "That is probably a broad  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre" rel="nofollow - genre  of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMartin199871%E2%80%9375-8" rel="nofollow - [8]  that developed in the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom" rel="nofollow - United Kingdom  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States" rel="nofollow - United States  throughout the mid-to late 1960s, peaking in the early 1970s. Initially termed " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_pop" rel="nofollow - progressive pop ", the style was an outgrowth of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_music" rel="nofollow - psychedelic  bands who abandoned standard  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music" rel="nofollow - pop  traditions in favour of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentation_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - instrumentation  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - compositional  techniques more frequently associated with  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz ,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , or  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music" rel="nofollow - classical music . Additional elements contributed to its " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_music" rel="nofollow - progressive " label: lyrics were more poetic, technology was harnessed for new sounds, music approached the condition of " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_music" rel="nofollow - art ", and the studio, rather than the stage,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recording_studio_as_an_instrument" rel="nofollow - became the focus of musical activity , which often involved creating music for listening rather than dancing.

Progressive rock is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, involving a continuous move between  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formalism_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - formalism  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclecticism_in_music" rel="nofollow - eclecticism . Due to its historical reception, the scope of progressive rock is sometimes limited to a stereotype of long solos, long albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill. While the genre is often cited for its merging of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_culture" rel="nofollow - high culture  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_culture" rel="nofollow - low culture , few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree, and only a handful of groups, such as  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer" rel="nofollow - Emerson, Lake & Palmer , purposely emulated or referenced classical music.

The genre coincided with the mid-1960s economic boom that allowed record labels to allocate more creative control to their artists, as well as the new journalistic division between "pop" and "rock" that lent generic significance to both terms. It saw a high level of popularity in the early-to-mid-1970s, but faded soon after.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_wisdom" rel="nofollow - Conventional wisdom  holds that the rise of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock" rel="nofollow - punk rock  caused this, but several more factors contributed to the decline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHegartyHalliwell20111-9" rel="nofollow - [9]  Music critics, who often labelled the concepts as "pretentious" and the sounds as "pompous" and "overblown", tended to be hostile towards the genre or to completely ignore it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTELucky20007-10" rel="nofollow - [10]  After the late 1970s, progressive rock fragmented in numerous forms. Some bands achieved commercial success well into the 1980s (albeit with changed lineups and more compact song structures) or crossed into  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonic_pop" rel="nofollow - symphonic pop ,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_rock" rel="nofollow - arena rock , or  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_wave_music" rel="nofollow - new wave .

Early groups who exhibited progressive features are retroactively described as " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-prog" rel="nofollow - proto-prog ". The  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_scene" rel="nofollow - Canterbury scene , originating in the late 1960s, denotes a subset of progressive rock bands who emphasised the use of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_instrument" rel="nofollow - wind instruments , complex chord changes and long improvisations.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_in_Opposition" rel="nofollow - Rock in Opposition , from the late 1970s, was more  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-garde" rel="nofollow - avant-garde , and when combined with the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury" rel="nofollow - Canterbury  style, created  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-prog" rel="nofollow - avant-prog . In the 1980s, a new subgenre,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - neo-progressive rock , enjoyed some commercial success, although it was also accused of being derivative and lacking in innovation.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-progressive" rel="nofollow - Post-progressive  draws upon newer developments in popular music and the avant-garde since the mid-1970s."


But was just my first guess based on the name though.

Wow. I just thought it meant left wing political songs. Man, was I not thinking.

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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 10:19
Like most people I just don't remember. I know I liked ELP (for Keith Emerson mainly) and someone at school told me I should check out Yes . I wasn't all that impressed but to be fair Tormato was not the best starting point. I've said many times though that 'prog' didn't include as many bands then that we like to think it did now. It seemed that mainly ELP, Genesis and Yes were part of this. Floyd were far too big to be lumped in with anyone else and Rush were some sort of arty heavy rock metal but not 'Prog'. Tull not sure about and I don't remember anyone caring that much about the likes of Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator to label them anything. Hawkwind on the other hand were massively popular in that teenage age group but no one called them prog. 


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 10:39
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

...

of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentation_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - instrumentation  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - compositional  techniques more frequently associated with  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , or  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music" rel="nofollow - classical music . Additional elements contributed to its " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_music" rel="nofollow - progressive " label: lyrics were more poetic, technology was harnessed for new sounds, music approached the condition of " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_music" rel="nofollow - art ", and the studio, rather than the stage,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recording_studio_as_an_instrument" rel="nofollow - became the focus of musical activity , which often involved creating music for listening rather than dancing.

...


Hi,

(welcome btw, if you have not been welcomed!)


I think of this, a lot more, as a compliment to the arts in other areas, than I do "rock music" that continued its fascination (actually control by record companies) to a top this or that ... a process that is still used today, specially here on PA, where the few GODS stand up and everyone else pays for the churches!

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

...

Progressive rock is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, involving a continuous move between  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formalism_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - formalism  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclecticism_in_music" rel="nofollow - eclecticism . Due to its historical reception, the scope of progressive rock is sometimes limited to a stereotype of long solos, long albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill. While the genre is often cited for its merging of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_culture" rel="nofollow - high culture  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_culture" rel="nofollow - low culture , few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree, and only a handful of groups, such as  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer" rel="nofollow - Emerson, Lake & Palmer , purposely emulated or referenced classical music.

...

The sad side of all this, for me, was that as the 70's went on people started believing the media and when punk came around, it was like all this was worthless, and didn't mean anything. The very "literary" (for lack of a better term) ideas made the whole of the works a lot more interesting than the constantly repetitive formats all over the top this and that.

I also think that the appreciation for using other folks in other mediums like various poets, and then showcasing talent that was also more poetic, or literary, was something that helped the whole of "progressive" music, whereas today, the bad example is how many bands apply to be included because they are "progressive this or that" and not exactly because of the quality or the elevation of their music into an artistic design, something new, and not just like every other band out there, that supposedly sells to the public in general.

Today, visible here on PA, there is a lot of respect for Roy Harper (as an example) and many of the better known "poets" of the time, but even in those days, folks like Leonard Cohen, and many others were laughed at and thought of as pretentious. At least, you know they were HONEST about what they did and mattered to them and they ENDURED like many rock bands couldn't because they were not doing anything worth discussing as artistic matters ... it all was just a song ... not a poem, and not anything else.

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

...

The  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_scene" rel="nofollow - Canterbury scene , originating in the late 1960s, denotes a subset of progressive rock bands who emphasised the use of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_instrument" rel="nofollow - wind instruments , complex chord changes and long improvisations.

...

 

Don't forget how many of these came from various colleges and universities and how many of these folks are teaching today! "Canterbury" was an artistic scene, and had a lot of its start in the early days with Robert Wyatt, Kevin Ayers, Daevid Allen and several other folks living in a place that had Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Ginsberg coming and going and participating in various events that also included many folks involved in film, and other arts ... we can not forget that Canterbury, in many ways, was already apart from "rock music" and stuck to their artistic leanings. In many ways, both Daevid Allen and Gilly Smith became by very far some of the best "beat poets", specially when you hear her read in SF in 1999 of an endless ream of computer paper and making it rhyme for the longest time with a band behind her. Like Daevid, she was not afraid of making a poem out of "nothing".

I have always been one to say that "progressive music" needed to be "elevated" beyond just a song, into an art form ... but here, I am not sure that any one thinks of Ian Anderson and Jethro Tull as an "artist" ... just one of the greats and one of the top "progressive' choices, with not discussion as to what made it so whatsoever. It became a preference, and I'm not sure that a preference makes it an art form of the piece of work.



-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 15:39
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

(welcome btw, if you have not been welcomed!)

Thanks!

I do hope you realize I was jokingly copy-pasting the wikipedia description of Progressive Rock in that post Tongue



Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 16:17
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

I do hope you realize I was jokingly copy-pasting the wikipedia description of Progressive Rock in that post Tongue</span>

You asked for it, you got it.

-------------
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 18:12
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

(welcome btw, if you have not been welcomed!)

Thanks!

I do hope you realize I was jokingly copy-pasting the wikipedia description of Progressive Rock in that post Tongue


Hi,

I'm not a great fan of the Wiki stuff and (in general) too much of their material is not clean, and has no intelligence whatsoever, as if it was written by folks that only knew some rock music, never went to a theater, never went to see a film other than the generic top ten crap that is not even considered artistic, although the media advertising for it, makes it seem like the latest action cartoon is the best thing since sliced bread!

However, I come from a high level literary family, so it is very easy for me to see, and think that the artistic side is more important than a mere hit song ... although I would say that a lot of the academic stuff around it is just as bad as the "fandom" around the advertisements of the latest something or other ... and no one seems to realize how the media only talks about the things they support AND OWN ... in order to prevent the "independents" from making headway ... and in many ways this is the big was on the Internet, that I can only hope that the huge corporate cartels do not eventually buy everything for ten cents ... and turn the whole thing into just another TV set, or lousy radio station!

In this sense, we don't realize much what "progressive" really meant at the time, and how those people created so much work ... but without a place for it to live and be "seen" and "heard", it is rather difficult. 

I, originally, joined the PA folks because I thought this would be a great place for discussing new things ... and in the past many years it has gotten worse with too many threads about the top this or that, and yet another fan asking which guitarist is best of his list of 5 because he/she does not hear anything else! It is sad, in so many ways, and a total regression of what the term "progressive" really meant ... but I think that folks got too stoned, and drunk ... to even know the difference ... something stupid like that!


-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 19:26
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

(welcome btw, if you have not been welcomed!)

Thanks!

I do hope you realize I was jokingly copy-pasting the wikipedia description of Progressive Rock in that post Tongue


Hi,

I'm not a great fan of the Wiki stuff and (in general) too much of their material is not clean, and has no intelligence whatsoever, as if it was written by folks that only knew some rock music, never went to a theater, never went to see a film other than the generic top ten crap that is not even considered artistic, although the media advertising for it, makes it seem like the latest action cartoon is the best thing since sliced bread!

However, I come from a high level literary family, so it is very easy for me to see, and think that the artistic side is more important than a mere hit song ... although I would say that a lot of the academic stuff around it is just as bad as the "fandom" around the advertisements of the latest something or other ... and no one seems to realize how the media only talks about the things they support AND OWN ... in order to prevent the "independents" from making headway ... and in many ways this is the big was on the Internet, that I can only hope that the huge corporate cartels do not eventually buy everything for ten cents ... and turn the whole thing into just another TV set, or lousy radio station!

In this sense, we don't realize much what "progressive" really meant at the time, and how those people created so much work ... but without a place for it to live and be "seen" and "heard", it is rather difficult. 

I, originally, joined the PA folks because I thought this would be a great place for discussing new things ... and in the past many years it has gotten worse with too many threads about the top this or that, and yet another fan asking which guitarist is best of his list of 5 because he/she does not hear anything else! It is sad, in so many ways, and a total regression of what the term "progressive" really meant ... but I think that folks got too stoned, and drunk ... to even know the difference ... something stupid like that!
Sometimes, moshkito, I feel in some of your posts it is like you are talking down to some people around here, and you are up on your high horse.... I have been a wiki editor for a bit in the past-I wrote the wiki entry for musician/producer/engineer Dirk Steffens, and also contributed greatly to the wiki page for Helmut Koellen (it was just a stub until I expanded it) and I find your definition of a wiki writer to be insulting. Also, I kind of enjoy "Top 10 lists" of best guitarist or whomever around here, and I don't spend my time getting stoned and drunk, ever.....people get involved in those lists because they have something to say, not that they are sad cases.... again your tone is pretty insulting, and I don't like it!


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 01:38
As a kid at home in the early 70s we called it Symphonic Rock, or the earlier 60s stuff was called Psychedelic, Hippie or Underground music. I don't remember exactly when did I make the connection to the broader term Progressive Rock.

At any rate the term Progressive Music was already used in Spain back in 1970 to refer to music that went beyond the commercial 3 minutes pop songs.

Poster of the "1st Festival Permanente de la Música Progresiva", Barcelona 1970, lineup at the bottom





Poster of the "1st Festival Internacional de Música Progresiva", Granollers (Barcelona) 1971




Lineup of the same Festival Granollers 1971






Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 03:06
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


I'm not a great fan of the Wiki stuff and (in general) too much of their material is not clean, and has no intelligence whatsoever, as if it was written by folks that only knew some rock music, never went to a theater, never went to see a film other than the generic top ten crap that is not even considered artistic, although the media advertising for it, makes it seem like the latest action cartoon is the best thing since sliced bread!

However, I come from a high level literary family, so it is very easy for me to see, and think that the artistic side is more important than a mere hit song ... although I would say that a lot of the academic stuff around it is just as bad as the "fandom" around the advertisements of the latest something or other ... and no one seems to realize how the media only talks about the things they support AND OWN ... in order to prevent the "independents" from making headway ... and in many ways this is the big was on the Internet, that I can only hope that the huge corporate cartels do not eventually buy everything for ten cents ... and turn the whole thing into just another TV set, or lousy radio station!

Okay, but that has very little to do with whether someone is able to write a good encyclopedia-style summary page of something, which is ultimately what wikipedia does and does pretty well (for most big pages anyway). There are certainly problems with wikipedia, but most big pages have plenty of (credible) sources listed, so it doesn't matter if the people who wrote them is from a 'literary' family or only watches Marvel movies. That has no effect on whether someone is able to write wikipedia pages well.



Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 03:28
fun fact: I wrote the first Wikipedia entry for Hawkwind. absolutely nothing of my original entry is in today's entry for them


-------------


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 04:53
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


Hi,

I'm not a great fan of the Wiki stuff and (in general) too much of their material is not clean, and has no intelligence whatsoever, as if it was written by folks that only knew some rock music, never went to a theater, never went to see a film other than the generic top ten crap that is not even considered artistic, although the media advertising for it, makes it seem like the latest action cartoon is the best thing since sliced bread!

However, I come from a high level literary family, so it is very easy for me to see, and think that the artistic side is more important than a mere hit song ... although I would say that a lot of the academic stuff around it is just as bad as the "fandom" around the advertisements of the latest something or other ... and no one seems to realize how the media only talks about the things they support AND OWN ... in order to prevent the "independents" from making headway ... and in many ways this is the big was on the Internet, that I can only hope that the huge corporate cartels do not eventually buy everything for ten cents ... and turn the whole thing into just another TV set, or lousy radio station!

In this sense, we don't realize much what "progressive" really meant at the time, and how those people created so much work ... but without a place for it to live and be "seen" and "heard", it is rather difficult. 

I, originally, joined the PA folks because I thought this would be a great place for discussing new things ... and in the past many years it has gotten worse with too many threads about the top this or that, and yet another fan asking which guitarist is best of his list of 5 because he/she does not hear anything else! It is sad, in so many ways, and a total regression of what the term "progressive" really meant ... but I think that folks got too stoned, and drunk ... to even know the difference ... something stupid like that!

Patronizing much?

If you hate everyone here so much and value our opinions so little why the heck to you stay?

I'm off to create a top 10 poll of classic 70's prog guitarists! 


-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 04:57
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Sometimes, moshkito, I feel in some of your posts it is like you are talking down to some people around here, and you are up on your high horse....

Sometimes? LOL

-------------
obscurum per obscurius


Posted By: thief
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 05:38
Well, my pops listened to a ton of music those days, but referred to Yes/Genesis as "rock" iirc.

So first I heard the music, and then learnt there is "progressive rock" moniker. It made sense. VDGG, KC or Gentle Giant differed wildly from Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple for sure.

From that moment, there was either "hard rock" that ruled, "progressive rock" - that took skill and was beautiful and intriguing; and then there was regular, vanilla "rock", that didn't interest me at all.


-------------
TOP20 Songs
https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124211" rel="nofollow - Genesis
https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=125999" rel="nofollow - Rush


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 07:13
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
 Sometimes, moshkito, I feel in some of your posts it is like you are talking down to some people around here, and you are up on your high horse.... I have been a wiki editor for a bit in the past-I wrote the wiki entry for musician/producer/engineer Dirk Steffens, and also contributed greatly to the wiki page for Helmut Koellen (it was just a stub until I expanded it) and I find your definition of a wiki writer to be insulting.
...
Hi,

I think you are reading too much into it and not taking in consideration the very different upbringing that I went through to end up feeling like that.

My issue with "Wiki" is that it does not have, exactly, a quality control, and a process with which they allow someone to write on this and that and tomorrow, someone else's write up is removed by, or replaced, by something with very little artistic value ... as if the "reality" of the art itself, was not important, and within rock music, art is a joke, and just another song, which is sad in many ways, and I doubt that in my lifetime, many of those "song" folks will figure out how to respect their appreciation with a little more than a goddammed blue guitar, 6 strings, 8 strings, 10 strings, 12 strings, and a dancing keyboard, or some other kind of idiocy that has not as much to do with the music, as it did with the time that it came up in the first place. It was no coincidence that things were not "impressed" with 2001, and many other movies (for example) and that they had to show on stage that it was just as powerful ... and many bands did, and showed up, even if today we kinda look at it as too much, but the hundred million dollar horrible light show for the latest Genesis show is mentioned ... wow ... I'm impressed that I stayed home and did not waste a cent! For a "show" that had nothing to help define the music itself, beyond just another hit.

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
again your tone is pretty insulting, and I don't like it!

Right ... and you are nitpicking on me and ignoring some other things in Ukraine and the rest of the world. Reality, for many, is not insulting ... but for those that have an image, or a romantic idea of what they like, seeing a different reality is scary and (of course) ... insulting.

I'm fighting for an art form. Your comments are about screw the art form because of one person you happen to not like or enjoy reading for a reason or two. I'm not into creating lies and falsehoods, to get my comments out ... and I am a writer and published and don't need your opinion on anything I do or write. 

IF I DID, I would not be "progressive" and an "artist". Maybe you don't want to get this truth ... but that is another story.


-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 07:33
Gentlemen, gentlemen. ;-)

Seriously, "progressive rock" is just a label applied after the fact by the music industry. 

As a few people here have mentioned, we didn't have a name for it way back then. I have a big problem with "musical genres" being named - you end up with about 100 different subgenres of heavy metal (one genre is arguably too much there, but just personal opinion, folks.) 

What it's called doesn't really matter. 

-------------



Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 08:12
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
 Sometimes, moshkito, I feel in some of your posts it is like you are talking down to some people around here, and you are up on your high horse.... I have been a wiki editor for a bit in the past-I wrote the wiki entry for musician/producer/engineer Dirk Steffens, and also contributed greatly to the wiki page for Helmut Koellen (it was just a stub until I expanded it) and I find your definition of a wiki writer to be insulting.
...
Hi,

I think you are reading too much into it and not taking in consideration the very different upbringing that I went through to end up feeling like that.

My issue with "Wiki" is that it does not have, exactly, a quality control, and a process with which they allow someone to write on this and that and tomorrow, someone else's write up is removed by, or replaced, by something with very little artistic value ... as if the "reality" of the art itself, was not important, and within rock music, art is a joke, and just another song, which is sad in many ways, and I doubt that in my lifetime, many of those "song" folks will figure out how to respect their appreciation with a little more than a goddammed blue guitar, 6 strings, 8 strings, 10 strings, 12 strings, and a dancing keyboard, or some other kind of idiocy that has not as much to do with the music, as it did with the time that it came up in the first place. It was no coincidence that things were not "impressed" with 2001, and many other movies (for example) and that they had to show on stage that it was just as powerful ... and many bands did, and showed up, even if today we kinda look at it as too much, but the hundred million dollar horrible light show for the latest Genesis show is mentioned ... wow ... I'm impressed that I stayed home and did not waste a cent! For a "show" that had nothing to help define the music itself, beyond just another hit.

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
again your tone is pretty insulting, and I don't like it!

Right ... and you are nitpicking on me and ignoring some other things in Ukraine and the rest of the world. 

What the chuffing hell does Ukraine have to do with this? Is that your way of avoiding having to make an apology?


Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 08:16
art-worx-caution-mosh-pit-i13416165728892035283428

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obscurum per obscurius


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 08:40
Chances of Pedro making an apology - 0%
Chances of Pedro making another condescending rambling post about his history as a fine art connoisseur and the fact that the Neanderthals don't understand what progressive mean plus a bonus reference to Guy Guden's radio show - 100%  


-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 10:10
Don't look now, but the real problem is the OP posting this ridiculous thread! Sleepy

-------------
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 10:39
"Funny music by crazy guys" or "baroque" was how a fellow pupil described King Crimson's Islands when he presented it to me (we were mid-teenage). I found the music rather depressing and would esp call Sailor's Tale "music that tells the story of a shipwreck". Another comrade found Red and Discipline on a tape in the school library and introduced them to me so I became the more curious and got some info in bookshops where KC was called "progressive rock"... This made it simplier to describe from then on !

I was happy to have discovered what I'd thought were hidden musical gems (I'd realize later that they weren't that hidden... ). It was like a true sonic secret garden.


-------------
http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing !
https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 11:38
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
 Sometimes, moshkito, I feel in some of your posts it is like you are talking down to some people around here, and you are up on your high horse.... I have been a wiki editor for a bit in the past-I wrote the wiki entry for musician/producer/engineer Dirk Steffens, and also contributed greatly to the wiki page for Helmut Koellen (it was just a stub until I expanded it) and I find your definition of a wiki writer to be insulting.
...
Hi,

I think you are reading too much into it and not taking in consideration the very different upbringing that I went through to end up feeling like that.

My issue with "Wiki" is that it does not have, exactly, a quality control, and a process with which they allow someone to write on this and that and tomorrow, someone else's write up is removed by, or replaced, by something with very little artistic value ... as if the "reality" of the art itself, was not important, and within rock music, art is a joke, and just another song, which is sad in many ways, and I doubt that in my lifetime, many of those "song" folks will figure out how to respect their appreciation with a little more than a goddammed blue guitar, 6 strings, 8 strings, 10 strings, 12 strings, and a dancing keyboard, or some other kind of idiocy that has not as much to do with the music, as it did with the time that it came up in the first place. It was no coincidence that things were not "impressed" with 2001, and many other movies (for example) and that they had to show on stage that it was just as powerful ... and many bands did, and showed up, even if today we kinda look at it as too much, but the hundred million dollar horrible light show for the latest Genesis show is mentioned ... wow ... I'm impressed that I stayed home and did not waste a cent! For a "show" that had nothing to help define the music itself, beyond just another hit.

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
again your tone is pretty insulting, and I don't like it!

Right ... and you are nitpicking on me and ignoring some other things in Ukraine and the rest of the world. Reality, for many, is not insulting ... but for those that have an image, or a romantic idea of what they like, seeing a different reality is scary and (of course) ... insulting.

I'm fighting for an art form. Your comments are about screw the art form because of one person you happen to not like or enjoy reading for a reason or two. I'm not into creating lies and falsehoods, to get my comments out ... and I am a writer and published and don't need your opinion on anything I do or write. 

IF I DID, I would not be "progressive" and an "artist". Maybe you don't want to get this truth ... but that is another story.
And so all you are capable of doing is getting defensive and insulting me further! Despite the background you come from and go on and on about in your posts, you don't seem to have much of an understanding of how you come across to people. Yes, I am aware that wikipedia is a mixed blessing and not perfect, but you make sweeping generalisations about things sometimes and you don't get it when you are putting down someone and how that makes someone feel. I  don't understand you. I do not live under a rock, and am aware of what is happening in the world, like in Ukraine.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 12:02
Mosh, Mosh, Mosh. Where's old Dean when you need him? LOL

-------------
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 15:26
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

My issue with "Wiki" is that it does not have, exactly, a quality control, and a process with which they allow someone to write on this and that and tomorrow, someone else's write up is removed by, or replaced, by something with very little artistic value ... as if the "reality" of the art itself, was not important, and within rock music, art is a joke, and just another song, which is sad in many ways, and I doubt that in my lifetime, many of those "song" folks will figure out how to respect their appreciation with a little more than a goddammed blue guitar, 6 strings, 8 strings, 10 strings, 12 strings, and a dancing keyboard, or some other kind of idiocy that has not as much to do with the music, as it did with the time that it came up in the first place. It was no coincidence that things were not "impressed" with 2001, and many other movies (for example) and that they had to show on stage that it was just as powerful ... and many bands did, and showed up, even if today we kinda look at it as too much, but the hundred million dollar horrible light show for the latest Genesis show is mentioned ... wow ... I'm impressed that I stayed home and did not waste a cent! For a "show" that had nothing to help define the music itself, beyond just another hit.

Bar-built estuaries are found in a place where the deposition of sediment has kept pace with rising sea levels so that the estuaries are shallow and separated from the sea by sand spits or barrier islands. They are relatively common in tropical and subtropical locations. These estuaries are semi-isolated from ocean waters by barrier beaches (barrier islands and barrier spits). Formation of barrier beaches partially encloses the estuary, with only narrow inlets allowing contact with the ocean waters. Bar-built estuaries typically develop on gently sloping plains located along tectonically stable edges of continents and marginal sea coasts. They are extensive along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts of the U.S. in areas with active coastal deposition of sediments and where tidal ranges are less than 4 m (13 ft). The barrier beaches that enclose bar-built estuaries have been developed in several ways:
  • building up of offshore bars by wave action, in which sand from the seafloor is deposited in elongated bars parallel to the shoreline,
  • reworking of sediment discharge from rivers by a wave, current, and wind action into beaches, overwash flats, and dunes,
  • engulfment of mainland beach ridges (ridges developed from the erosion of coastal plain sediments around 5000 years ago) due to sea level rise and resulting in the breaching of the ridges and flooding of the coastal lowlands, forming shallow lagoons, and
  • elongation of barrier spits from the erosion of headlands due to the action of longshore currents, with the spits growing in the direction of the littoral drift.


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----------
to meet anyone nose at nose
the walls have hearsay
he go to four feet
take the moon with the teeth
he has a good beak
the stone as roll not heap up not foam


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 16:58
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Chances of Pedro making an apology - 0%
Chances of Pedro making another condescending rambling post about his history as a fine art connoisseur and the fact that the Neanderthals don't understand what progressive mean plus a bonus reference to Guy Guden's radio show - 100%  

Hi,  

You might add in how he was born talentless in a talented family but somehow thinks that because of parental proximity, and the fact he saw someone in a concert or saw a Broadway play that he somehow has some superior opinions that transcend everyone else's obviously pedestrian opinions because..."songs". 

STFU. 


-------------
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 10 2022 at 02:47
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Chances of Pedro making an apology - 0%
Chances of Pedro making another condescending rambling post about his history as a fine art connoisseur and the fact that the Neanderthals don't understand what progressive mean plus a bonus reference to Guy Guden's radio show - 100%  
LOL




Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: July 16 2022 at 10:57
I like the estuary discussion. The concept has continually evolved. A lot of early literature characterized estuaries as coastal areas with low salinity, which made the term rather nebulous with respect to depositional environment.

Since Exxon and the associated geological minions unleashed seismic and sequence stratigraphy on the world, estuaries had a crisped up conceptual framework built around marine flooding of incised river valleys.

It’s interesting how concepts of estuaries have evolved. Concepts of progressive rock have also evolved considerably. In the early days many would not have considered Pink Floyd and Zappa as progressive rock. Nowadays they seem so obviously to be core parts of progressive rock. Amazing what more than half a century of hindsight brings!


Posted By: Greenmist
Date Posted: July 20 2022 at 14:35
Very good question of a thread.

The first time i heard the word "progressive" as a pronoun for a music genre was "progressive metal", as i was a metal head first.   I thought it just meant that the songs would begin minimalisticlly, then gradually and slowley build up and build up to a big climatic ending, so i was totally mislead lol.

Progressive Rock and Progressive Metal is just one of those genres where you cant explain to someone with words what defines the genre and its traits,  you need to listen to a fair bit of it before you can grasp it.  One noticeable trait is that the songs are often long, lasting 7 mins or sometimes even 12 mins or 20 mins.   The commonly used synthesiser sounds and atomspherics are another giveaway trait.    

In the metal world, the same description and biography that can be used to define Progressive Metal could also be used to describe Avant Garde, but i would say what seperates those 2 genres from each other is their bases......Progressive Metal is Traditional Heavy Metal and Power Metal based, where as Avant Garde is Black Metal and or Thrash Metal based.

Progressive House (Leftfield, Faithless, York ect) ect is a totally different kettle of fish......the reason why electro genres have "progressive" as a prefix before them is simply because unlike radio friendly counterparts, they are usually long, have longish atmospheric intros and have longish breaks.


Posted By: DreamTechPlus
Date Posted: July 21 2022 at 03:51
My recollection was that it described less a sound and more "any sort of rock music with an artistic or eclectic edge". Now obviously that's not true or The Ex and The Fall and Fugazi would be "progressive rock".

I did hear "prog" first and thought it was short for "progressive big band" as I was really into jazz at the time. Though now that I think about it, why is "prog" just "progressive rock"? There are loads of genres with the "progressive" prefix.

Love, DreamTechPlus. 



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