Bowie enters the Archives!
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49694
Printed Date: October 31 2024 at 18:02
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bowie enters the Archives!
Posted By: fighting sleep
Subject: Bowie enters the Archives!
Date Posted: June 24 2008 at 14:26
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Personally, I had been wondering for a while why he hasn't been here. He had some great material in his earlier years, as well as the Berlin trilogy. So I'm happy he's finally being included in the archives.
What does everyone else think about this?
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Replies:
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 24 2008 at 14:50
Dude were you asleep? He was added a couple of days ago...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 15:08
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He had his progressive moments but I hardly think of him as a prog artist. I don't think he belongs here.
It makes his work very difficult to properly rate. He has a number of easily 5 star albums, but I would certainly hesitate to call them essential to a prog collection. I'll probably avoid reviewing him. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 15:15
Neither does the archives, as he was placed in prog-related. |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 15:26
I don't particularly like the idea of that category in the first place, but I don't think having a slim few progressive tinged albums and songs really qualifies an artist for the inclusion. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 15:31
I'm not a huge fan myself, but that ship has sailed. As for your second part, I think determining prog-related artists can be more challenging than full-on prog, so I guess a variety of opinion on this artist is inevitable. Apparently the powers that be have a more favorable view on Bowie's output as it relates to prog. |
Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 15:42
| well, I'm ok with Bowie once we add Björk here too ¬¬ |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 16:00
On the bolded part I couldn't agree with you more which is one of the reasons I dislike the category. So much time and effort is spent of debating PR artists that the inclusion of prog artists seems to get swept aside. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 00:43
Very interesting point especially Bjork's albums post "Post"  ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 01:20
Not true at all. Since you have access to the Collab Zone, I'd recommend you have a look at the Genre Team threads, just to see how we do care about adding prog artists every single day of the week. I can understand having reservations about PP and PR (though it has been said thousands of times that they are here because the owners want them), but not putting down the work of people who genuinely care about enlarging this site's database. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 03:41
Personally, I'm celebrating to such an extent, I've put on my red shoes & am currently dancing the blues 
Seriously though, although I consider it to be high time he was added, I know the amount of work put in by the teams prior to approval/inclusion & applaud them for it - this was not an easy one  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 04:51
Serious moonlight, the serious moonlight?  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 11:36
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First of all he was included in prog-related. Second I think he made at least one full-fledged prog album ("Lodger") and three that were pretty close to being full-fledged ones ("Low", "Heroes", "Scary Monsters"). So I would not even have minded to have him put under prog.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 12:07
I understand that the higher ups wants the PR and PP here, and thats fine they own the site and they should run it how they want. I'm not complaining, just voicing my opinion. I'm not putting down the work you and other collabs do, I think you do a fine job and I certainly understand that you have other things to do besides sit around and debate inclusions. I'm just saying that time is spent debating PR artists, and that time I feel could be better spent on progressive ones. I mean there's been threads arguing for Bowie's inclusion since I first became a PR and I'm going to assume long before that. I'm not criticizing the collabs; I'm just expressing that I think the limited time available is better spent on prog artists. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 12:17
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I used to be aganst Bowie's inclusion, but his Psyche early works and the Ziggy Stardust era is at least Protoi Prog.
But BJORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She even embraced Dance, Trip Hop, Club Dance, Euro Pop, please, I know some people want to be considered "open minded", yes you can listen whatever you like, but she's not trascendental at all for Prog, not influential, not clearly influenced.,
That was my concern about Bowie, he has been added and before a week has passed, he's being used as a trampoline to add an even less related artist by the back door. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 12:24
If I had to bet on it, I'd say this site's probably safe from being bjorked, now Bork on the other hand...  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 12:32
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We have Sigur Ros already - if we had Bjork as well that would be the entire musical output of Iceland... -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 12:40
How dare you! There's tons of Icelandic greats besides those two, like Aniima and Ok well thats it I guess. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 12:42
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finally he is here, the UFO has landed! ------------- 
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 13:03
I wouldn't have a problem with Björk in prog-related either. It is not important whether the artist actually wants to produce music that can be categorized as prog, it is important what the music sounds like. Her excursions into Dance or Trip-Hop all have a twist to them that puts them somewhat outside of the genre. She is playfully using these genres to form something of her own artistic vision out of them, and I think that this is what truely characterizes a progressive artist. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 20:07
 ------------- 
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 22:13
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Yeah yeah, make a few decent (but revered) pop albums and a ton of decent pop singles, hang out with Fripp and Eno for a few years, next thing you know you're in. Time to go re-evaluate those Daryl Hall cuts on Exposure.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 06:40
that's a hell of a post Friede... I couldn't agree more.... and that will be be brought more into focus down the road   ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 07:57
While PP and PR is under the aegis of the Admins we will ensure that all health and safety procedures are in force when the trampoline is being used - this includes locking the back-door and placing crash-mats around the perimeter
 PP & PR additions can only be recommended to us by SCs, which adds a second level of 'protection' to the process that isn't present in any other sub - Admins blocking an SC's suggestion is rare, but it has been done and will probably happen again in the future. One further safeguard is that recommendations can be discussed in the SC zone before passing them on to us, so if we feel that a suggestion has not been given enough discussion then we will suggest to the proposer that further SCZ discussion is needed.
------------- What? |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 09:10
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Just something I noticed, don't know if it needs changing.
There is one small error in album titles. Outside is actually called 1. Outside (as it was the intend to create 5 albums, but the other four never got made)
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 09:22
^ fixed  ------------- What? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 10:55
I added that one, my bad. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 14:50
and let me add.... what is less related to some members.... can ..and sometimes is related.. or more related for others hahhah . That is why we have an inclusive and collaborative site. That is why I have such.. well.... not a great deal of respect for those who bitch about these kinds of things.. that smacks of a rigid and inflexible way of seeing things... and inabliity to recognize.. or even respect differing opinions. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 19:50
For some of us 'of a certain age', Bowie represented everything that was wrong with rock at the time (style over substance). Fortunately we had prog to turn to when we wanted to hear 'good' music. I have since that time softened my stance (hey, when you are a teenager and a musician you can be very opinionated about what is right with music and what is wrong).
I have no problem with his addition, regardless of my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments above. In fact now I'll have incentive to listen to and perhaps review the couple of Bowie albums I have.
Now about that XTC band...
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 21:30
look forward to what you have to say... personally I think that anyone who sees Bowie as a 'triumph of style over substance' misses the boat completely on him. The truly great ones can bring both to the table.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 22:31
In terms of style over substance, I'm only referring to Bowie's early years. There was a sense amongst some of us that glam was taking over (e.g., early Bowie, T. Rex, Slade, Alice Cooper and I am sure others who don't come directly to mind but if someone here mentions them I'm sure I'll all too sorrily remember). There was in a sense battle-lines being drawn (as there were at the time in many other ways...was a person a Young Republican Nixon-backer in favor of the war in Viet Nam, or not?).
But back to the music...
In 1971, which albums would I buy: Hunky Dory or perhaps The Yes Album, Tarkus, and Islands?
In 1972, which albums would i buy: Space Oddity and Ziggy, or perhaps Fragile, CTTE, and Trilogy?
In 1973, which albums would I buy: Aladdiin Sane, or perhaps Brain Salad and LTIA?
Looking back, well we can re-evaluate and I have. I find a lot of merit in those albums that I don't find in Slade or Alice Cooper, though man do I love Electric Warrior and Slider (Metal Guru!) However, at the time, there was no question what a fan of progressive music was listening to, and I can assure you Bowie was not in the mix.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 22:53
That wasn't the situation in the UK - Bowie was not dismissed by people who liked Prog, nor was Marc Bolan come to that, as most people remembered them before Glam Rock. Roxy Music and Queen formed the bridge between Prog and Glam that meant it was all right to like Bowie, just as long as you owned a copy of Tontos Expanding Head Band or 200 Motels to keep your credibility in tact. ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 22:57
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the more you you post on this.. the more curious I get to read your reviews.. with the benefit of a few miles on the odometer and one hell of a rear-view mirror. But being the curious cat that I am... I'll cut to the chase... I dig what you are saying about back in the day.. .but what about now... would you classify Bowie... a progressive artist.. a purveyor of progressive music. I think you answered that by saying that you didn't have a problem with his addition.. but still.. curious as to how you see him in a nutshell
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 23:05
| ^^Good to hear how it was elsewhere. In the good ol' USA Bowie and progressive were more or less mutually exclusive in the early '70s. I'm sure there were people who liked both, but I didn't meet any of them. (Could've been thecrowd I was hanging out with.) The first Bowie album I bought was Station to Station, by which point I thought he was making pretty good music without all the non-essential bells and whistles. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 23:38
Well we are tripping over each other's posts here.
With hindsight, I still don't consider Bowie progressive in the classic sense. But prog-related I'll buy that. Why not? Ever changing, making good if not challenging music along the way. Station to Station, Low, Heroes, Lodger...these are all fine albums (in no small part due to the company he chose to keep at the time, but that's the case with any musician). The earlier stuff, not so sure about the prog aspect. For me, Nirvana gave the earlier stuff some credibility in my book by the cover they did on the Unplugged album. Not saying Nirvana is the arbiter of what's good, but the fact that Kurt chose to cover Bowie says something about the timelessness of some of the early stuff, which frankly was lost on me prior to that. But it gives impetus to re-listen to those early albums, without the either/or prejudices, and though I'll still stick with my Zephyr or Joe Walsh or any number of other fine rockers of the era, I can appreciate it now.
I should mention I had the same problem with Eno back in the day and now that I'm ancient enough to not care whether these guys were wearing make-up and sporting platform shoes and and/or pumping out a stage act that featured more theatrics than music...well I can just listen to the music and I'm much more forgiving than I was at the time.
As I posted before on another thread, given that my mindset was substance over style, you can imagine my apoplexy when I saw ELP in concert and actually up there before my eyes witnessed the spinning grand piano. That's when I started listening to jazz and fusion. But I guess we're getting off the Bowie track here.
So long-winded post, Bowie will never be in my favorites. I suppose there's too much water under the bridge. But there are a few core Bowie albums that we should all be aware of -- as frequenters of this site. And I like ABBA as well.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 23:59
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excellent... though we do have differing opinions on that.. I think he is the classic sense.. but isn't in the modern sense.. where the focus is on those serialized benchmarks for the genre of prog.. complexity, instrumental acrabatics and crap like that... while in the classic sense.. he was as progressive as any one out there.. in the sense of bring together art and music..much like Battiato.. who never rested on a particular style. let me know when you toss off some Bowie reviews.. looking forward to reading them. .especially on that early stuff. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 00:38
Well I am slow to review...too much time on the forums here  but they shall come and we'd probably better consider a place for Mott the Hoople as well, given the All the Young Dudes connections. I know the drill...but that first album, particularly Half Moon Bay, has prog-related written all over it. Don't know how i'd justify Sonny Bono's (the other Bono, ha!) Laugh At Me, however...
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 05:25
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Bowie is in the archives. Let's dance !
My favourites albums : "Lodger" and "Low". Bowie is a "chameleon" and cannot be categorized. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 05:55
 is what I think ... its a sad day for prog archives
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 06:46
oh no.. you missed the poll some space cadet did...on whether Peter Gabriel was a f**king nut or something like that. Didn't see it.. but heard about it....that was a sad day. This was only an addition you don't agree with. Time for some perspective there buddy. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 12:53
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Bowie made lots of music, some of it progressive and some not, just like lots of folks on this site, prog related or otherwise (DP, ELP, Genesis, Yes etc). Thanks Michael for getting him on the site, some of his music is amazing, but usually in very subtle ways.
As far as substance and style go, often his substance is his deep knowledge of style and his ability to merge, subvert and deconstruct many styles at once, the man knows his music. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 15:34
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Just in time for tomorrow's Mail On Sunday Bowie Cd giveaway - very un-prog the Mail newspapers
------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 15:34
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I was just listening to Station to Station by him. As much as I like Bowie's music, I'm still very against the whole "prog-related" idea, but maybe it will lead to some prog fans giving him a second chance - his hits never did too much for me but all 4 albums I have by him (Ziggy, Aladdin Sane, Station to Station, and Heroes - need Low and Hunky Dory next) are awesome.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 15:43
Hmm, given away by them so far... Genesis, Peter Gabriel & J M Jarre, ...  Prince, Lenny Kravitts & Paul McCartney...  okay - you win ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 15:49
Smacks of either sale-out or over-popularity fort the Mail to be interested : and it can't be real prog if it is popular, surely....................  ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 15:56
It's not about selling newspapers to Mail-readers, they'll buy it regardless of what's stuck to the cover with supersnot - it's about attracting new readers who otherwise wouldn't have bought it.
When they gave away Prince's Planet Earth free, I bought it - the disc went in my pocket andf the paper went in the bin outside Tesco's Express. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 16:05
| What does Prince's new one sound like, he has an obvious appreciation for prog-rock and occaisonally has some nice prog/jazz instrumentals. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 16:08
| I remember that time in the early Eighties when the notorious British magazine Kerrang! put Prince on its cover, following the release of Purple Rain. Much uproar ensued, but I for one applauded them for their open-mindedness. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 16:11
Ah... only played it once - can't remember ------------- What? |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 29 2008 at 01:10
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Ch-ch-ch-changes! Besides that, I have no comment on this topic. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: June 29 2008 at 15:59
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Well. I'm not sure I consider Bowie to be prog...even prog-related. However, as he is one of my favorite artists, I can hardly complain too much about his inclusion, Actually, he did incorporate a lot of prog elements into some of his music...the long lyrical narrative of Cygnet Committee, the spacy parts of Low and Heroes, his concept albums, some jazz fusion here and there and some symphonic leanings from time to time. Whatever! Prog or not prog...a great musician and songwriter. In fact, I was listening to Outside earlier this evening, and in spite of its industrial leanings is a quite good album and has some proggy moments too, especially in the sleeve notes/story (that one could give the Lamb a run for its money in terms of sheer wierdness). It'll be fun to discuss him with other prog fans, and so good to have him on board. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: June 29 2008 at 17:25
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Well, he's in prog related so I can understand and support his inclusion. Of course, this opens the door for Boston who also should be in prog related. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 29 2008 at 17:33
love ya Ghosty.. and respect the hell out of you  ... but comparing Boston and David Bowie is comparing apples and oranges. by the way. now that I think of it.... I told you some time back that Rundgren was approved for addition... I can't remember.. were you interested in doing a bio since I know you are a fan of his. If not.. let me know.. I toss together a bio so he can be added. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 00:11
^ Actually it's comparing Boston to Bowie. 
Bowie is not one of my faves but he does belong in PR. No doubt about it. Early use of mellotron and concept albums.
Boston I don't agree. Tom Schulz was a great songwriter and he played one really great Hammond intro but I don't think they belong. People always compare them to Kansas but when I think of Boston later 70s' Journey, Foreigner and the like I think of taking Kansas vocals and watering down the music. Very radio friendly but no innovative or even technical. I hate very much that Kansas is always lumped in with these groups as well. These groups didn't take the subtle extremely technical guitar and keyboard work under the melodies like Kansas did. Early Journey prior to Steve Perry is an exception as well as Styx prior to 1977. If Boston happend in 1974 instead of 1977 maybe there is a case. ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 17:27
I know personally I've been of two minds about Boston.. and Ivan is always happy to point out my inconsistencies in a pinch Can they be here... yeah sure... Bowie was a bad comparison... but compare Boston to some others.. it does get sort of hazy .. and I know it's hard for some to see some groups here .. and not see others... but the point that sort of trumps all is .. not whether they are prog related because ..really... who wasn't in the 70's.... to some .. AOR was an offshoot of symphonic prog.. big stadium, multi-platinum American style. The real question is ...what makes the most 'sense' for the site.. that is why the admins handle it.. not even the SC's. That is how I see it at least. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 20:53
Ya know, Micky, you've hit the nail directly on the head. I'll leave Bowie out of the mix here as I've commented on him earlier in the thread. But realistically, Boston, Styx, Kansas, Foreigner, Blue Oyster Cult, Journey, Toto, etc. can all be shoe-horned in to the prog-related category if we keep our blinders on or look at specific albums as opposed to the band's entire output (but I guess we have to do that with the prog bands as well...Love Beach, anyone?)
But back to the point: these bands had big ambitions, were influenced by the prog bands in one way or another (and in Foreigner's case actually had one as a member), and produced music which was a step above the usual Top 40 garbage of the time (ahem...others may argue they WERE the garbage Top 40 of the time). They were not afraid of extended suites, synths, perhaps a violin player, and even the odd sorta-concept album.
BOC is already here. I'd say it's only a matter of time before we see some of the others showing up. As mentioned earlier, I don't care one way or another; I'm just not that emotionally invested whether or not Foreigner shows up here. Sad, I guess I'm no longer a purist.
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Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 21:09
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so much to say, so few who will listen. sigh. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 21:12
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This is what bothers me, Saturday we added the FANTASTIC Alex Carpani Band, 100% Progressive with an amazing debut album released 6 months ago and nobody has even cared to reply to the thread.
But David Bowie, a barely Prog Related artist that released his last proggy album 40 years ago is added and we have 65 replies.
We have a discussion about genres and two 100% Prog bands like TRICANTROPUS and URBAN TRAPEZE almost had no place because they don't fit in a genre, but Bowie is here.
The site promotes CONTRARIAN, another 100% Prog band, and we have people saying they shouldn't be promoted because they are Retro Prog Cheese, but David Bowie, not Prog with a lot of Pop Cheese (among some excellent albums) has 3 pages of replies.
Pathetic for a Prog site.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 21:19
| Maybe it's because a search for any of those bands on Amazon returns 0 results. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 21:21
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------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 21:47
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How sad if we rely on Amazon. instead of this site.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 21:59
our job is to give them the info... we can't put the music in their hands... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 22:17
*sigh*
Now I know how Micky and Raf felt about RPI.
-------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 22:18
How strange, I thought the main reason for PROG Archives was to promote PROG over non Prog artists?
Iván -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 22:20
and that is what we do.... what we've always done...  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 22:32
you poor Kansas fans... you all do have my respect for all the abuse you take.. that is the funny thing though... who outside of prog circles considers Kansas prog... they are lumped together with those other groups by about everyone else... in the public mind they are not a prog band.. but an AOR band. Yet it's funny how selective that logic can be... see... Kansas is not... forget the labels..you just have to listen to the music.. but ahhhh.. that does not apply to all does it.. Nope... a band was rejected here.. no names needed hahha.. because .. the main reason.. regardless of the music.. they were not thought of as a prog band. No wonder some people get so worked up... if people were consistent in their lines of thinking.. the prog world would be such a happy place hahhaha. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 23:19
And this is exactly my point. If I can't buy the CD, how can I listen to it and therefore comment on it or get excited about it?
My local independent CD retailer recently closed down (and I live in Seattle, I suppose nearly but not exactly a backwater). Said retailer might have been able to find one of these albums for me. But now on the local level I'm left with Best Buy, so if I want to get anything even somewhat out of the ordinary (and I'd say all modern prog save MV, Tool, etc. is out of the ordinary), I'm forced to go to Amazon. If they don't have it, I'm done.
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 23:20
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You said quite a lot in that paragraph Mick. In the end though the main problem is trying to define what prog is. So in that case a little knowledge is dangerous. In my mind even a group like Chicago would have some merit in the archives because their most proggy stuff very few people would have heard. I am sure to be crucified for that comment. As for Kansas itself well it is mostly a matter of perception with some history. Kansas were around a long time before Boston and the others even Styx. Most people only hear the radio hits that happened about the same time these other groups happpened. Even if people hear the progressive side people think oh yeah Kansas just ripped off Yes, Genesis Elp etc. without knowing that the real influences were early Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Frank Zappa (60's) Touch, The Nice and VDGG. Probably can throw in some Tower of Power, Jeff Beck, Cream, Free and Blood Sweat and Tears as well. Now that puts them into a different time line than people think. The band existed in form or another since 1969 and several songs that ended up on albums were written in that time perid of 69-73. They didn't get to record their first album until 1974 which was the first time they got their hands on a synth.
But all that requires some research and it is just easier to think Oh yeah Carry On 1976 and Dust in the Wind 1977 rather than Belexis, Myriad and Incomudro circa 1971-3. -------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 23:25
You can probably find them for download somewhere at a reasonable price. Maybe check out the bands website or myspace page. It does require a little effort but it can be found at least most things can be.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 23:31
| There's the problem for us old school people. I don't want a soft copy. |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 23:42
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Well I am old school jamman being 52 years old but I realize we are living in a different world.
Cost to much to drive to store now and I can dl one without the cost of shipping and tax.
Hell I even saw Liquid Tension Experiement and really enjoyed it so I think you can teach old dogs new tricks.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 23:57
You aren't quite as old school as me (I'm 54
 ) but regardless I don't care for dl route. I have several computers here at home and frankly I don't feel I should be required, as a listener, to manage a bunch of MP3's, much less have to listen to them strictly on my IPod. As an example of what a band can do, at the local county fair I saw a great band (Quiehua Mashis) which granted is not prog but is some Ecuadorian music and even they had CD's for sale onsite, one of which I bought. See their web site http://www.incasite.com - www.incasite.com (moderator feel free to delete link if that's not allowed) to see how easy it is for a band to set up a web site. It's only another minor step to set up sales instead of downloads. If they are doing downloads they have all the infrastructure in place to sell a CD.
I want to buy a CD. I can listen to it on the home stereo, copy to a computer, download it to my IPOD. I have an inherent distrust of non-hard formats. Disk drives go bad, eventually. Computers go bad, eventually.
We are getting obviously off the original topic (Bowie) here, but at least I can go back and listen to that without of a hardware failure.
And in case there's any question, I am not lobbying for inclusion of Kansas or Foreigner or anyone else (except XTC) on the site. I'm just saying I understand Micky's position that given a little elbow room a sufficiently devious stance, all of the bands I brought up could wend their way here.
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 00:17
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Should say "and that given a little elbow room...."
Micky, didn't mean to imply you were lobbying for or suggesting inclusion of Kansas, just reiterating the '70's point that many of these bands qualify as 'prog-related' whatever that is.
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 00:18
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I have had several CD's go bad as well. The key is backing up. Cheap hard drives are readily available. As to Kansas they are already here in symphonic where they belong. As to the rest Early Journey yes, Boston no, Toto maybe and Foreigner no
The first was a progressive rock group Toto did some things in that vien and the other two were mostly pop/rock groups that gave a slight nod to prog in a couple of their songs.
As for David Bowie he belongs and he was never one of my personal favorites. However I agree with Ivan we need to look at bands that aren't ashamed to carry the prog label.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 00:28
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Hmm that shows how much attention I pay to Kansas...
All I am saying is that yes many of us would gladly buy NEW progressive music if the quality is there but the bands need to find a way to make it available other than download only.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 01:31
That's why Prog Archives is here, just check the new added bands and most of them have a link towards the website,,it's simple, in the case of Alex Carpani for example, you just click on the website pointed here in Prog Archives:
Genre: http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=4 - Symphonic Prog
Origin: http://www.progarchives.com/Bands-country.asp?country=179 - Switzerland http://www.alexcarpani.com/ - Official website If you don't want to take risks, you can listen almost the whole album in live version plus MP3 http://www.alexcarpani.com/downloads/livedownl.html - http://www.alexcarpani.com/downloads/livedownl.html
If you like the samples, normally the web pages have a site where the album is sold http://www.alexcarpani.com/shop-waterline/shop-wat.html - http://www.alexcarpani.com/shop-waterline/shop-wat.html , in this case you can choose:
http://www.blackwidow.it/page.php?pg=distribution - http://www.blackwidow.it/page.php?pg=distribution
And http://store.cypherarts.com/servlet/Detail?no=67 - http://store.cypherarts.com/servlet/Detail?no=67
(U.S.A.) http://www.cosmosmusic.fr/nouveautes.html - http://www.cosmosmusic.fr/nouveautes.html (France) http://www.sonicbond.com/prodtype.asp?strPageHistory=cat&PT_ID=526 - http://www.sonicbond.com/prodtype.asp?strPageHistory=cat&PT_ID=526 (UK) http://freesonrock.com/en/index.html - http://freesonrock.com/en/index.html (Canada) http://www.artist-shop.com/clearlight/index.htm - http://www.artist-shop.com/clearlight/index.htm (U.S.A.) http://musea.musearecords.com/re_new_catselect.php?np=34795 - http://musea.musearecords.com/re_new_catselect.php?np=34795 (France) http://www.beyondrock.nl/ - http://www.beyondrock.nl (The Netherlands) http://www.kinesiscd.com/storeframe1.htm - http://www.kinesiscd.com/storeframe1.htm (U.S.A.) http://www.waysidemusic.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=C8M%20CYPHER%20008 - http://www.waysidemusic.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=C8M%20CYPHER%20008 (U.S.A.) http://217.128.227.4/boutique/anglais/index.php - http://217.128.227.4/boutique/anglais/index.php (France) http://www.marquee.co.jp/world_disque/back_number1.htm - http://www.marquee.co.jp/world_disque/back_number1.htm (Japan) http://synphonic.8m.com/synphonic_catalog.pdf - http://synphonic.8m.com/synphonic_catalog.pdf (U.S.A.) http://www.abraxas.home.pl/ - http://www.abraxas.home.pl/ (Poland) http://shop.proggies.ch/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=110&Itemid=26 - http://shop.proggies.ch/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=110&Itemid=26 (Switzerland) http://a.hatena.ne.jp/Kiev/ - http://a.hatena.ne.jp/Kiev/ (Japan) They will send you normally (90% of the cases of the bands we added) a brand new plastic CD, but if of course we keep caring of adding and endlesly debating non Prog artists as if it was the priority, we will never find it.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 09:02
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Hey, speaking of Kansas, Two For The Show comes out today and will probably be available at my local chain record store...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 12:44
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^ Oh yeah
although I preordered mine through Amazon (sorry Ivan). An entire full new bonus disc of the rest of the Point of Know Return Concert and the restoration of Closet Chronicles. Remasterd by Jeff Glixman. -------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 02:15
Hey, I also use Amazon, specially for common albums, but if you rely only in them, most surely will be loosing the best new bands.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 02:49
I agree with you Ivan. As much as I like some of what Bowie did he is a monster of pop music not really what I would call prog except for maybe Ziggy Stardust. He tends to stick in the minds of many because he was huge. The Beatles will never be a prog band to me either but here they are. To each their own I guess and it is what is.
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 08:15
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I wouldn't consider Ziggy to be even close to his most progressive album, that would probably go to Low, Heroes or Station to Station, or maybe that early collection that had Memories of a Free Festival on it.
I won't argue about whether he is progressive rock, to me he is more prog-related art rock, nothing like Boston or Kansas, but more somewhere in between the Beatles, Eno, Kevin Ayers and Roxy Music. He did go through a terrible pop phase with that Let's Dance album, I hate that album, that is some of the worst rock music ever, totally dull and lifeless. |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 12:53
Hey Ivan I was just teasing. I happen to agree with you 100%.
I don't like the fact that if you write a review there it becomes their property and they constantly hounding for reviews after you make purchases.
But they have cheap shipping compared to other sites that is why I use them for hard copies but now they have downloads as well that I grab as a convenience while I am looking for other things. -------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: NurseryCryme89
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 13:44
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Björk!!!!!!!!! what kind of f**ked up world are we living in!!!!!!! |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 20:20
Thanks for posting the links to some of the band sites. i can see I'm going to have to get a little more creative in seeking out some of this new stuff.
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