TFTO vs TLLDOB: excess vs excess
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50631
Printed Date: May 19 2024 at 04:38
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Topic: TFTO vs TLLDOB: excess vs excess
Posted By: The T
Subject: TFTO vs TLLDOB: excess vs excess
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 14:12
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A recent poll put together "Close to The Edge" and "Foxtrot", which in my view are each band's best albums (with FX beating CTTE in my opinion).... Now let's compare albums that have been called "pretentious" or "excess".
I choose The Lamb by 498374938 miles. Even though it's too-long and lacks some of the magic found on other GENESIS albums, it's still a flawed masterpiece. TFTO (which I just heard again), on the other hand, is terribly boring and borders on atrocity at times.... For me, one is an excess... the second is an excessive amount of ego put on a record....
Vote. Or fade. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 14:29
I actually agree with The T. 
The difference between the two is that The Lamb is a substantial album
done to excess, making it somewhat less enjoyable than it could/should
be, but not bad at all. Tales, on the other hand, is pure excess with
little or no substance.
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 14:32
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Tales is one of my favorite albums and the Lamb is pretty awesome too.. I will vote for Tales  |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 14:39
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The T wrote:Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 14:53
I like reading posts backwards. And from this, I figured you were talking Dream Theater. Anyway, I enjoy each album about equally. Some of the respective band's best work to be found on each, even the underrated second LP of The Lamb. I prefer the first LP on each, but they're still good and I don't consider either to be excessive really, it's much easier for me to sit through these two albums than some longer contemporary albums where I drift off halfway through. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 15:21
no comment ...none needed... this has been done 3 times already Teo.. *wags finger in direction of* http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45683&KW=Lamb http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39747&KW=Lamb http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23026&KW=Lamb ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 15:25
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I agree with the T ! ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 15:53
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I'll be short, though I could come up with more: Don't find excess in The Lamb. TFTO, on the other hand, is flawed. Not disastrous, though truly excessive, but anyway flawed. Some moments are masterful, others hurt bad.
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 16:13
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I'm with Ricochet and Pnoom! ,well you know what i mean. I'll have the Lamb please. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: bruin69
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 17:38
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The Lamb for me; I never considered it that excessive (maybe because I grew up listening to excessive prog!) though a little overlong. Very few duff tracks, just a little filler, and maybe 'It' is a little anticlimactic - a good track but not the powerhouse ending it should have been. TfTO on the other hand, is the only Yes album I can't bring myself to enjoy - admire, in parts, but not enjoy. ------------- A dog is for lunch and not just for breakfast |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 17:52
| tales is kinda boring.. lamb is one of the best concept albums ever and has a few boring trax, so lamb i guess, |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 18:22
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Tales all the way!!!! Proficiency in prog. |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 18:33
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 19:34
Oh well? I don't particularly care micky. Sometimes logic is a little...absent..here on PA. One of these days maybe I should bribe John Myung to tackle YOU instead of just Labrie Oh and I'm voting for TFTO. The Lamb Got Lost in Broadway is ok, but not my favorite Genesis album by far. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 19:42
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The Lamb hands down, the definitive conceptual album IMO.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 20:06
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Lambs concept is really good, while the music while not being bad it's not as great and awsome as in the previous albums. While Tales is much more interesting in the musical aspect.4 gigantic tracks, one of them being completely boring, I must admit, but the other 3 are one of Yes' best tracks ever composed, IMHO. I rate both albums 4 stars of excellent albums, but my taste goes to Tales. |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 20:08
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What's wrong with TFTO??? are we on a prog site here or is it the hillbillies? ''The Revealing Science..'' is as good , as majestic as any other great YESepic, the same goes for ''Ritual''.
''The Remembering'' has very nice moments, but sure could have been shortened, ''The Ancient'' is more of an acquired taste, but at least YES showed they could outside of their comfort zone and be adventurous.
So long live TFTO!!
 About ''The lost Lamb....''' never got into it back then in 74, tried hard many times, recently again with the CD version........No, nope, nada, closed, a hermetic wall between me and the lamb, can't go through and Gabriel vocals REALLY annoys my poor ears! Sorry!
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 21:21
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Man, aren´talready like two or three polls including both of this albums? Oh and The T.. I thought you said you´ll never change your avatar... whats up with that? If I cant trust in The T anymore... how can I have faith in this world? ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 21:43
Didn't see those polls.. anyway... it's that time of the year....
And my avatar... it was time. That old pic was, well, old. -------------
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 02 2008 at 04:19
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Love both, but the Lamb a litle bit more. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 02 2008 at 05:37
sometimes? hahahha.. yeah I guess you could say that. oohhhh... I'd love a crack at Myung... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: August 02 2008 at 08:15
I really like The Lamb, too, but otherwise I agree, so long live TFTO.  |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: August 02 2008 at 12:46
| I'm in the minority on this one. I love Lamb and for me at times it is not long enough. I wish that I had the sense in my younger days than to have seen Genesis when they toured for Lamb. That is my loss. I only got to see the Philesis version of the band and Peter in his solo glory. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: August 02 2008 at 13:13
I always feel that Supper's Ready isn't long enough, that's surely because the very notable divided sections(parts), and it makes the song feel shorter or at least go faster 
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Posted By: Philip
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 12:51
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The more "excessive" for me is Tales, althought I like it very much.
"The Lamb" is a bit less excessive, and my prefered from these two.
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 12:54
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I got sunshine in my stomach ! ------------- omri |
Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 13:11
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As I often say Tales is too much and gets me so far away that's why I love it but The lamb is strong too and very moving ------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world of searchers with the help from crimson king |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 13:14
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Tales is Yes' finest moment, not "boring" in the least. ------------- |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 14:02
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The Lamb for me... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 16:50
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YES issue 80 minutes of stellar prog, stretching their own already vast vision even further, and get criticised for it. I can understand 'music critics' being critical - after all, their job depends on being able to apprehend an album on first listen - but why on earth would prog rock fans use the word 'excess' to describe the album? Forgive me for being coarse, but it's kind of like a patient asking his doctor to reduce the length of his orgasms. 'I'm having too much fun, doc. Can you knock it back a bit?' Funny thing, 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' being blamed in some quarters for the decline of prog. Collins-era GENESIS get blamed for the same thing. 'Tales' is more complex, 'A Trick of the Tail' is less. So what was it? Did we get too complex or too simple? Or was it neither? (Having 'tail/tale in the title, perhaps?) I vote we stop listening to the critics and start listening to the music. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 16:57
I know this may shock and disturb you, but not all prog fans like Yes! And that doesn't make them hillbillies! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 17:03
I take your point, but I don't know that it has anything to do with 'like' or 'dislike'. I rather think people can tell if something is excessive or not regardless of whether they like it. Unless, of course, we simply consider 'more of what we don't like' as excessive. |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 17:15
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To amplify this thought, I'm imagining a pie-eating contest. Someone
wolfs down 30 pies in a minute and everyone applauds. Then another
contestant eats 40 pies and the crowd shriek 'that's excessive!' I don't like 'Lamb', but that's because I find it disjointed, sacrificing music for the concept. I don't consider it excessive, just poor. I sometimes wonder how any prog album - the musical equivalent of a pie-eating contest - could ever be considered excessive by those participating or watching. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 21:10
Basically, maybe I picked the wrong word... Or maybe not. The thing is, reading your points literally, prog was only about length... So, if we have a good 18 minute song, why don't we prefer a 22? Or, if we have one album with 40 minutes of prog, why don't we prefer double that?
In the end, my point, which can be reflected in the review I just wrote of TFTO, is that both albums are a little "excessive" not because they're long but for actual artistic reasons... Both have obscure concepts (Genesis' at least sounds coherent.. YES' sounds like.... words....), both are IMO too-long... and my biggest complaint about YES' TFTO is that is just plain boring and bad.
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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 21:27
What's wrong with TFTO is that it's a long, meandering, aimless mess of an album that very rarely approaches the level of "listenable." And for the record, I like Yes. A lot. |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 22:37
If I implied prog was only (or even primarily) about length, I apologise. But length is implicit in most of the criticism of TFTO: things aren't usually boring, for example, if they're short. I'm arguing that things aren't automatically boring if they're long. Like you - and Pnoom! - I think it's about the quality of the music. And You And I differ on that, which I respect. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 03 2008 at 22:41
Not as much as I do, apparently. Maybe you can apply that to the second track, "The Remembering", but I don't find this to be the case at all with the others. |
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: August 04 2008 at 03:50
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As has been said, there are a few polls like this at the moment. In fact, I posted one of them!! It's a really tough one, as I think both are brilliant studio albums. I don't find either too long. It's a toss of a coin for me. I vote The Lamb this time, but it could be Tales if I am asked next week, it's that close. |