Close to the Edge vs. Supper's Ready
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Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
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Topic: Close to the Edge vs. Supper's Ready
Posted By: WatcherOfTheSkies88
Subject: Close to the Edge vs. Supper's Ready
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 22:35
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Which one of these Prog classics do you like better? "Close to the Edge" by Yes, or "Supper's Ready" by Genesis? Hands down, my vote goes to CTTE. Even though I love Genesis more, I have to admit that "Supper's Ready" is inferior to CTTE for the following reasons: 1. CTTE just has more memorable sections and better melodies. Supper's Ready can get kind of boring and some of the melodies aren't that interesting. 2. CTTE feels like one long song... the different sections flow together really well and the lyrics from the different sections are all related to eachother. Meanwhile, "Supper's Ready" just feels like a bunch of different songs put into one long track. Some of the sections seem out of place (like Willow Farm). I really wouldn't consider "Supper's Ready" as being a song... it's more like a suite/mini-rock opera. Also, I think the first part of CTTE, with that intense dramatic rock section, is maybe Yes's finest musical moment. Raises the hair on my neck when I hear it. "Supper's Ready" doesn't have even one section that comes close to the brilliance in that part. Honestly, I can't really understand why so many people love "Supper's Ready". It's not even in my top 15 for favorite Genesis songs. So many other songs of theirs are much much better: The Knife, The Musical Box, Watcher of the Skies, Return of the Giant Hogweed, White Mountain, Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, Firth of Fifth, Fountain of Salmacis, Looking For Someone, Get Em Out by Friday, etc. |
Replies:
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 22:46
| Siberian Khatru > CTTE |
Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 22:48
| I'd agree with you completely. Close to the Edge takes precedence over Supper's Ready 9 times out of 10 in my book. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 22:54
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Nothing in Close to the Edge compares remotely to Apocalypse in 9/), specially because it's a work of all the band, Hackett, Banks, Rutherford and Collins give one of the most memorable moments in Prog. If this wasn't enough, the vocal section in Lover's Leap is just perfect
While the CttE solo by Wakeman is spectacular, it's a solo work, while Supper's Ready is a complete team work and simply breathtaking.
So Supper's Ready takes precedence over Close to the Edge, 10 out of 10 times in my book.
 Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Isa
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 22:54
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The classic battle that never ends: CttE vs. SR After a couple years of classical training and music history in college, I still regard Close to the Edge as among the finest achievements in all of twentieth century music, along with Stravinsky's Rite of Spring and John Coltrane's A Love Supreme. Foxtrot is just a really F-ing good album. ------------- The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities. |
Posted By: m2thek
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 23:10
| I think CttE is more exciting, but Supper is better composed. CttE has really loud, and really soft sections, but Supper just kind of flows throughout (with the exception of Willow Farm) |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 23:13
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In my humble opinion, Supper's Ready by a mile. To be honest, I never really "got" Close to the Edge. I always thought it was a fairly repetitive and uninteresting song. Supper's Ready, on the other hand, I find extremely powerful, beautiful and engaging. Merely my opinion, of course; perhaps I'm just missing something.  ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: soundsweird
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 23:49
| The lyrics of Supper's Ready are sublime. Just ask Bill Bruford about the lyrics of Close to the Edge. What was the exact quote? Something about when he heard the words "total mass retain", he decided it was time to quit... Hate to say it, but I haven't listened to that track in many years. |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 23:51
| Supper's Ready easily. I used to skip the entire album just for that song. I can't say I've done the same for CttE, in fact I have skipped it more than once. |
Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 00:48
Actually, from what I've heard Apocalypse was just kind of a jam between Tony, Mike and Phil that they laid to track. Peter then worked the vocals in around it and Steve came in and doubled Mike's part. It's a tough call. Overall, I love Supper's Ready, but I find parts 2 and 3 of it to be rather forgettable. I am a huge fan of Steve but I've got to say that his solo (and really his playing on the song overall, apart from that bit between Willow Farm and Apocalypse) was pretty lackluster. Not his shining moment. On the other hand, CTTE is strong all the way through, from the ripping intensity of the intro through to the ethereal power of I Get Up, there's a lot in there. I love how both songs have very excellent and subtle examples of polyrhythmic playing. They don't beat people over the head with the contrasting time signatures the way some tech metal bands seem to. It actually took me a lot of listens before I realized that in Apocalypse, Tony was playing in 4/4 against the band's 9/8 (granted, I would've been around 12 or 13 when I first heard it and wouldn't have even known what polyrhythms were, but still). The mixed time signatures in CTTE took me by surprise too. My stomach still kind of churns if I listen to them too hard. |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 00:50
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I prefer the greater sense of unity that comes with Close to the Edge. Supper's Ready, great as it is, is kind of a patchwork. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 01:02
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I regard Suppers Ready as the best prog track ever recorded. The Apocalypse section is amazing (Marillions' pale imititation Grendel was once described famously as apocalypse in four four) but also emotionally involving which is a rarity in prog. Almost brings me to tears.The whole work is really a build up to this section (based loosely on the Book of Revelations).
Close To The Edge I regard as the best out and out prog album ever. No one peice(or musician) dominates and a superb example of ensemble prog.
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Posted By: bsms810
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:50
------------- 'when was the last time you had a girlfriend?' 'I dont look at it as when, I look at it as who...and why' - David Brent |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 03:31
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Really difficult to pick one when the choice is among 2 of the finest pieces of prog ever, I love them both but if forced to choose I would pick SR.
CTTE is more rock-based while SR fits more the definition of symphonic prog as combining elements from classical music. The acoustic guitars parts of SR are wonderfully crafted and have no replica in CTTE, even if Steve's guitar work is amazing, but in a clearly more rock-jazz style.
The flute is SR also contributes to giving it a more classical sound.
I agree tough that SR is not one of Steve's best works with the electric guitar.
Rick's solo in CTTE is very spectacular but it is musically less intersting than Tony's one in Apocalypse.
On the other hand, while the bass of Mike in SR is great, it pales next to the stunning work of Chris in CTTE.
Both pieces have great use of polyrythms, great building to climax and excellent endings, although in my opinion As Sure as Eggs is Eggs does a better job at wrapping up the theme than Seasons of Man does.
In the area of lyrics there's no discussion possible, SR is the winner by miles, but as performance of the singers I think we have a draw, with both Peter and Jon singing wonderfully, and CTTE has better backing vocals by Chris than SR does by Phil.
Regarding drumming both are excellent but the more rocking nature of CTTE gives more room to shine, and Bill's drumming is more exciting than Phil's.
All in all I think SR fits more the bill for my taste but I absolutely love CTTE as well !
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Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 07:12
| Close to the Edge, but not by much. Although I feel that Peter is a better overall lyricist than Jon, I guess the music on the Yes track moves me more. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 07:33
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The funny thing about these two is other than being LP side length songs they really couldn't be more different. I like Supper's Ready better for it's drama and being jam packed with changes.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 10:12
| I think both are perfect three star albums, Close to the Edge perhaps four if it had been recorded properly. I never understood the fuzz about these albums, it seems to me people like it so much because everybody else does. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 10:12
Jamming?
Apocalypse in 9/8 is one ofthe best structured sections, trying something unusual in Genesis. Tony does an complex semi solo, in 4/4 while the rest of the band ytakes the place of an extended rhythm section with Steve playing the parts of the bass, it's wonderful for those who say that Tony never made solos, but even then, the solo is supported by a strong work of the band.
That's where my problem is, I can't stand Jon's acute voice, it's like a drill destroting my eardrums, but it's even worst whe he gets into his mystical eytasis, it's simply disgusting FOR ME
I like Close to the Edge complex INSTRUMENTAL entrance and Wakeman's solo, but the rest is too acute for me, while I enjoy Apocalypse in 9/8 from start to end.
Still the two albums deserve 5 stars.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 10:22
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I see Close to the Edge as the all-time prog masterpiece album. However, this one goes for the album, not for the individual tracks. Both Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready are masterpiece tracks with a memorable section in it (I Get Up, I Get Down vs. Apocalypse in 9/8), but if it comes to choosing, I have a slight preference for Supper's Ready. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 10:34
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Supper's Ready because of what Ivan has been saying, I never did see what all the hype was about with CttE. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: rod65
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 11:28
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A very tough call for me.
"Supper's Ready" was my introduction to understanging prog as such, and every epic I hear,whether I I want it to or not, gets compared to this wonderful song. It is dramatic in the extreme, mythologically rich, and emotionally gripping in a waythat few other pieces are, at least in my experience. On the down side, one of the band members--I think it might be Tony Banks--has commented that he has trouble listening to the original recording because the tempo in one part was off, and had to be fixed in the mix. I've listened for the glich, though, and my untrained ears cannot find it, and as long as the final release is good, Isuppose what happend in the studio is of secondary concern.
As for "CTTE," which I also love and is my other touchstone epic, it seems to me to be a little more complex,and perhaps more intellectually engaging. also, I've come to have a slight preference, where Yes is concerned, for "Gates of Delerium," which strikes me as a more mature work.
So my preference really varies with my mood. Ultimately, though, I would have to choose "Supper's Ready" for its drama, emotion, and mythic sweep.
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 12:14
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I find CTTE a more unified and "neater" composition. I think the playing of Messrs. Bruford-Squire-Howe far surpasses that of their equivalants in Genesis, and I much prefer Wakeman's Hammond organ solo to Banks's (far more pizazz).
On the other hand, CTTE just doesn't move me. Mind you, it USED to, app. thirty years ago, but now it has lost most of its lustre. Supper's Ready, on the other hand - well, the sense of mystery and ominous foreboding in those twelve-string accompanied passages will never fade for me. And that grand (vocal) climax has never been surpassed; it still makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck! |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 13:31
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This is a really difficult question which, I think, will always turn on personal taste, rather than musical or lyrical matters, simply because both are really so very different. I love both of them, and really would not choose a favourite, as such. Both have immense passion and meaning (if you can decipher Anderson's meanings, of course  ) and both, of course, show the musicianship of the era in a quality light.Suppers Ready is, to me, the more spontaneous of the two - Bruford has said many times how Squire tuning up endlessly would drive him round the bend, but, even so, it really is difficult to find any faults. Strangely, although I know many would disagree with me, I don't actually think that these two tracks or, indeed, albums represent the pinnacle of either bands career. For Genesis, my vote goes to Nursery Cryme every time, and especially Musical Box, whilst for Yes, I simply think that GFTO is unbeatable, with Turn of the Century & Awaken vying for top spot in the track department. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Nightshine
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 13:33
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CttE. |
Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 15:31
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The whole ambiance surrounding CTTE is superb. And Bill put it so nicely: 'that's the cookie! Done deal!' This was one of those special occasions when Steve and Rick communicated so nicely via their instruments. Not to mention Jon's layered vocals that seem to sound better than ever. An almost perfect composition. That being said, there is something about Supper's Ready that makes me want to give it my vote. I'm that type of person who adores Willow Farm, but it's not just that. It's whole package that makes this one of the greatest epics in prog: Willow Farm's explosion with those unforgettable live performances and PG's theatrics, Apocalypse in 9/8, the overall message, the keys sound amazing etc etc. And to think it took me several months to get into it... ------------- Property of Queen Productions... 
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Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 16:39
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Both are very astounding tracks, with Supper's Ready being one of the first epics that I had heard at the time. I love Close to the Edge, and when I first heard it, it was equally tantalizing/crazy/beautiful.. but I have to say that Supper's Ready really stands MY test of time. It's wonderfully cinematic and and it never bores me, where the super-instrumentation of CttE can sometimes seem overbearing. -------------  
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Posted By: Dr Clovenhoof
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 16:58
My friend you have just listed possibly the three most powerful pieces of music produced in the twentieth century in my opinion - I would have to add Miles Davis' Bitches Brew as a fourth. The question is, has the 21st century produced anything comparable its first decade? ------------- Existence is no advantage! |
Posted By: ProgBob
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 17:15
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Genesis was the first real prog band I got into round about 1980 and I quickly identified that I liked the PG era stuff much more than any of the PC era. Supper's Ready was key track in this and may well have been my favourite piece of music at one point. Some months later I heard AYAI on the radio. Next day I went into town and bought CttE. This was the first Yes album I owned and within days, if not hours, the title track was my favourite piece of music and my obsession with Yes began. Unfortunately for Genesis, it was largely at their expense and I pretty much lost interest in listening to them. After a bit more prog exploration, I more or less stopped listening to it at all for most of the rest of the 80s through to the mid 90s, when my interest began to be reawakened, mostly as a result of the advent of the Internet. Once again I became rather obsessed with Yes, and with other bands that I thought I had left behind or had not even known about before. But the interesting thing is that I still have not had the urge to rediscover Genesis. I have spun the odd track here or there and quite enjoyed them (still very familiar after so many years) but I find there is something about them that leaves me a bit cold. I realise that makes me a bit unusual in these parts, but I can't help it! Which is a long winded way to say that it is CttE for me any day! ------------- Bob |
Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 19:52
I'm close to Close To The Edge
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 20:04
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Supper's Ready...........mindboggling that after all these years, nothing rarely comes as close or better.
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 22:55
| Definitly CttE for me. Even though I do like SR a lot, there's something that I find lacking from the Gabriel era Genesis, I don't know if it's the mixing or what. And I just can't get into Gabriel's singing, while on the other hand I abolutly love Anderson's (though I understand many people will say the opposite). Perhaps hearing some live version of the song would help (I usually find more power in live versions of songs). CttE I find really powerful and beautiful, though I'm not sure if it would be my favourite Yes epic (they have so many). |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 23:16
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CTTE is my favorite prog epic. It's got everything I want from a song in one big cluster. Supper's Ready is better lyrically but musically CTTE speaks to me a lot more.
Supper's Ready is a great great epic, don't get me wrong, but I do think it's absurdly overrated, it's not my favorite song off of Foxtrot, it's not even in my top 10 Gabriel era Genesis songs, which includes some of the not too well liked songs like Time Table, I Know What I Like and It, so whatever, I'm just weird I guess, or not proggy enough.
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 19 2010 at 01:30
Foxtrot is a great album in fact but as I said before the thing that makes Suppers Ready so good (IMO) is the apocalypse section. So good that the whole track becomes a lead up to this magnificient finale.
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Posted By: The Wrinkler
Date Posted: May 19 2010 at 01:39
| Lately I've been seeing all the hype about CTTE, and I enjoy it a lot more now than I did months ago, but when I put on the Foxtrot album and Supper's Ready plays, I remember why I got into Prog in the first place. I agree with what Ivan said, and I LOVE As Sure as Eggs is Eggs (Aching Men's feet), it really brings the whole song to this epic climax that brings me to tears! |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 19 2010 at 01:50
Foxtrot is the most consistant Genesis album, I think all the other songs are as good as Supper's Ready if not better. Even if Supper's wasn't on the album I'd still rate it a 10.
Selling England is my favorite Genesis album though, shucks, I even like More Fool Me. Now granted THAT song isn't as good as Supper's Ready but whatever.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 19 2010 at 16:04
More Fool Me is short enough to be tolerable and not as bad as Collins eighties ballads
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 19 2010 at 22:05
| Just heard Supper's Ready again and ofcourse enjoyed it a lot. Still I prefer Close to the Edge. By the way, anyone's heard the version from the Yes Symphonic DVD (or CD)?. The orchestra really adds to the song, and blends into it. |
Posted By: Pilkenton
Date Posted: May 20 2010 at 00:07
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Close to the Edge for me. I love the early Genesis, but their studio albums can be boring at times. Genesis Live was their masterpiece to me. The concert footage on you tube is awesome, too. Yes albums usually has a clunker on every album, but CTTE was awesome from beginning to end. I usually like live albums better. I first heard CTTE on Yessongs. The studio version blew me away. It was far superior to the Yessongs version.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 20 2010 at 01:34
Great DVD
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Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: May 20 2010 at 03:38
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They're both good songs, they're both 20 minutes long, I like them both... but Tarkus is better =F= ------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: WatcherOfTheSkies88
Date Posted: May 20 2010 at 12:58
I agree... I like Tarkus better than CttE and SR... but in terms of 20 min epics, I think "Echoes" and "Atom Heart Mother" by Pink Floyd are great also. Not sure which is my favorite of them all. |
Posted By: AerosolKid74
Date Posted: May 20 2010 at 14:41
| I have to say Supper's Ready, although I'm a huge Yes fan there's no moment in any music that i think compares to Peter Gabriel singing the word jerusalem having built up so much tension throughout the course of the song and finally releasing it with an incredible combination of Peter's vocals and Steve's guitar accompanied by the Moog bass and Mellotron. |
Posted By: InfinityParadox
Date Posted: May 20 2010 at 19:53
| The opening 5 minutes of CttE is the greatest moment in progressive rock history (and, by extension, the greatest moment in rock history). |
Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: May 20 2010 at 21:01
| "Supper's Ready" gets my vote, even though I love "Close to the Edge" too. If you pitted it up against "The Gates of Delirium" though, it wouldn't be nearly as easy. |
Posted By: mapman
Date Posted: May 21 2010 at 12:07
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I tend to listen to SR way more than CTTE these days. used to be the other way around. Somebody explain to me what the heck "Total mass Retain" is about please? THough I am a big Yes fan, Jon Anderson's abstract philosophical lyrics and topics can leave me scratching my head on occasion. Total Mass Retain? OK sure, why not. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:32
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: May 21 2010 at 15:37
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Close To The Edge is more interesting to me. It brings me into an other world, while Supper's Ready seems more 'ambient'.
-------------  One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: May 21 2010 at 16:54
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I love both, and still listen to both, but for me it's Supper's Ready. The power and intensity from Apocalypse until the end is IMHO unmatched. The passion in Gabriel's voice in the end section is amazing. That said, I do agree with those who feel the instrumental at the beginning of CTTE is one of the great moments in music. Howe's playing in that section is unmatched.
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Posted By: esky
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 10:24
| Another case of comparing apples and oranges, I'm afraid. But if you're putting me to the test, it'll have to be Supper's Ready. A more interesting development through and through. CTTE is more of an aural workout that I can only take once in a blue, blue moon. |
Posted By: Drifter
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 11:19
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Tough call. Probably Supper's Ready but barely. |
Posted By: Tigereye
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 15:37
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The OP hits the nail right on the head for me with respect to Genesis' longer works sounding like a concatenated series of disparate musical ideas, whereas Yes's longer works worked as a coherent progression through a series of musical ideas pretty much from the beginning. For me, Genesis really didn't get that part of their composition working until Wind and Wuthering, although Trick of the Tail managed to be more coherent, probably because they seemed to stop trying to force the longer works by that stage.
------------- I worry that the person who thought up Muzak may be thinking up something else. ~Lily Tomlin |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 15:38
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CTTE is a much more unified and disciplined work.. Without a doubt its' a masterpiece. (And that is doubly impressive when you realize that And You and I is even better.
But Supper's Ready practically defines prog. It gets my vote. ------------- 
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Posted By: Norman Kiddie
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:44
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It took me ages to get into CTTE. At first I thought it was a load of overrated noise. Then one day a girlfriend of mine said she loves 'I Get Up, I Get Down`so I gave it another try and of course I became hooked. With Supper´s Ready it was an entirely different encounter. I love this epic adventure. To me Horizons is a part of it. No Horizons, no Supper´s Ready. For me this poll is a stale mate.
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Posted By: Norman Kiddie
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:45
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Stale mate
------------- Norm |