Led Zeppelin - Kashmir vs Achilles' Last Stand
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86961
Printed Date: May 02 2024 at 07:58
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir vs Achilles' Last Stand
Posted By: ColonelClaypool
Subject: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir vs Achilles' Last Stand
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 08:54
|
I did a forum search but didn't find a similar poll so I thought I'd make one myself.
Which do you prefer of these two songs, arguably Led Zep's two greatest epics?
Personally, I'd say Achilles by a mile, I'm not fond of Kashmir at all. ------------- With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince. With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with. |
Replies:
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:00
|
Achilles for me to, but I prefer Stairway to both of these actually. -------------  
|
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:21
|
Love both, but Achilles Last Stand gets the vote fairly easily here. It's one of their most 'exciting' songs. I love the drive of it, and Bonhams drumming is magnificent. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:59
|
The mighty Achilles over the mighty Kashmir. ------------- |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 10:03
|
Two of their finest pieces. For a long time, Achilles was my favorite Zep song overall, but I think I overplayed it so I'm a little tired of it now. And Kashmir is just a mindblowing piece, even if it's a little overexposed. It's very close, but in a pinch I have to say Kashmir is the superior piece.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 10:45
|
Achilles' Last Stand by far. Kashmir is a 4 minute song, and then, it's entirely repeated for another 4 minute song. I hate Kashmir. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
|
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:06
|
Achilles! ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:27
| Achilles Last Stand might be their best song (although stuck on one of their worst albums), and I prefer it over the also great Kashmir. Saying that Kashmir is overlong isn't the whole story. Achilles is also a normal-length song drawn out into an "epic". The real question is: Why doesn't Achilles feel overlong despite being overlong? |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:34
|
It's a much more well written song than Kashmir. Also, Kasmir is slower, so that may add to the overlong feeling. Kashmir literally repeats the first 4 minutes, whereas Achilles' does not do something so blatant. There are different things that happen. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
|
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:51
|
For me, Kashmir is the best tune what Led Zep ever made.. |
Posted By: dreadpirateroberts
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 12:06
|
Achilles' Last Stand - action packed, the layered approach that JP was so good at is on full display here. ------------- We are men of action. Lies do not become us. http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - JazzMusicArchives. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 18 2012 at 12:18
|
Kashmir. The Zeps going Mid-Eastern? And it works? Cool ! Achilles' Last Stand? I must say that the intro to the song is legenwait for it .... ... dary. But the main body of the song is really tedious. They run a very limited set of ideas across the span of 10 minutes. Christ. But the foreign power of Kashmir just barely gets tiresome compared to Achilles. Voted for Kashmir.
|
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 00:34
In fact it's less than that - it's a 20 seconds bit that keeps being repeated. Page himself said this in an interview bit I streamed years ago on their official website, and he plays the the on the acoustic guitar to prove his point. Kashmir has though Plant's best lyrics (or my favourite, at least), and it's very evocative. But I would still go for Achilles'. |
darkshade wrote:Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 00:52
| ^ 20 seconds is a bit of a stretch ... or, should I say, a bit of a compression. There have to be at least four different musical ideas on it, ... and Achilles suffers the same problem. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 01:32
| ^ of course. But most musicians will narrow it down to the main theme when they're asked what a certain piece essentially is. On Kashmir they do build a bit on it, but much less than what they normally did - which makes it so special in the Zepp cannon, too (IMO). |
Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 11:52
|
Achilles by far. Kashmir bores me most of the time. Achilles is an exciting, daring, epic piece of music - one of my favourites from Zep.
------------- 
|
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 17:15
|
Kashmir. I love both songs, but I think Kashmir has more of a sweep and grandeur. Great drums on Achilles though. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:11
| Two of my favourite Zeppeling songs, along with Stairway to Heaven, and No Quarter. Somehow I feel like voting for Achilles, but I could just as well have voted the other way. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:14
Perhaps it would be interesting for you to hear the live version presented by Jimmy Page and Robert Plant on their "Unledded, No Quarter" album (some sort of "Unplugged"), that one doesn't repeat the main melody so much. As a matter of fact, it begins very quietley for a few minutes, only with the vocals and soft instruments, and then starts with the main melody, and so on. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:41
|
What's amazing is that they actually played ALS in concert almost every night on the '77 tour (and again in '79 for Knebworth I think). Though it often was a mess, they had the balls to perform such a difficult, physically demanding (I worked the piece out and performed it once with a band, it's a killer) and lengthy piece in front of huge audiences is a testament to their courage and skill as a band. Hard choice, it's a matter of musical taste. I'll vote with Achilles. |
Posted By: deafmoon
Date Posted: May 23 2012 at 08:10
|
The real beauty of Kashmir is that Jimmy wrote the Morroccan influenced song in an odd time sig of 5/4...but Bonham plays the tune in 4/4. A bombastic drive that repeats back to one every 5th grouping. It is really odd to break it down when counting it, but works beatifully to listen to in it's entirety. That said though, Achilles is a monster all it's own and I have to say I am partial to it. ------------- Deafmoon |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: May 23 2012 at 09:35
| It's 6/4 over 4/4, not 5/4 over 4/4. |
Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: May 27 2012 at 00:58
| Kashmir by a long way for me, it's so clever, un-Zep like! |
Posted By: bloodsucker
Date Posted: May 30 2012 at 13:11
|
'Kashmir' sounds more mysterious but 'Achilles' has that nice galloping bass line and excessive guitar parts, really powerful drums. Still have to go with 'Kashmir'. Love the orchestral feel and down-tempo beat. Still can't vote in polls though! |
Posted By: nima1024
Date Posted: May 30 2012 at 14:33
| Both are nice track, but I will go for Kashmir. |
Posted By: clarkpegasus4001
Date Posted: May 31 2012 at 00:48
|
Achilles is my fave Zep track so i've gone for that, however when I watched them at Knebworth 79, Kashmir was my fave track on the day.
------------- Tony C. |
Posted By: Lord Anon
Date Posted: June 07 2012 at 16:50
|
both great songs, however my fav is: "   ------------- JOHN 15:18 : Jesus said: -"if the world hates you, remember that it hated me first." 
|
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 08 2012 at 01:08
|
Posted By: Glucose
Date Posted: June 20 2012 at 13:51
|
In the Light is so beautiful :) Achilles for me better, it has a specias atmosphere. ------------- Under the rocks and stones, there is water underground 
|
Posted By: deliriumofthethrush
Date Posted: June 20 2012 at 17:07
Glad someone said it already! This is definitely Zeppelin at their finest when it comes to epics. Kashmir definitely comes last for me - you can just hear it Bonham, the simple beat is completely unlike him. Yes, it works, but he's bored and not compelled to fill the song out with unheard catchy grooves like he normally would. |
Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: July 01 2012 at 04:29
| Achilles', easy |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: July 01 2012 at 09:40
|
Gonna go with "Kashmir", despite its being overplayed. *hides from thrown bricks* I remember reading somewhere once that Page considered "Stairway To Heaven", "Ten Years Gone" and "Achilles Last Stand" a trilogy - had more to do with chord progressions than lyrical content. Can anyone confirm or am I full of it? ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: August 14 2012 at 20:47
|
"Kashmir", hands down. Very modern sounding for 1975. Not that "Achilles" is a bad song. I love the drive of the main section and that eerie guitar work at the beginning and end. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: Meta
Date Posted: August 26 2012 at 01:01
|
Kashmir is awesome, probably Zep's best song overall. Monster riffs, monster drums, great atmosphere. ------------- http://www.heavymeta.net" rel="nofollow - Meta's Official Website |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: August 26 2012 at 05:23
|
The one in my username, but Achilles is excellent as well. Both are among my favourite songs (by one of my favourite bands) ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: Daysbetween
Date Posted: August 26 2012 at 05:58
| Like them both a great deal and neither feel overly long to me. Achille's Last Stand just by a nose gets my vote. |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: August 26 2012 at 22:21
|
Achilles' Last Stand by a 100 mile stretch. I'm not a big fan of Zeppelin, but Achilles' always was a favorite and I still like Stairway To Heaven as well. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: cqc19_genesis
Date Posted: August 28 2012 at 12:30
|
mmm... difficult... but i choose KASHMIR! epic arabic sound!
-------------  
|
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 16 2012 at 15:20
In terms of radio, in those days, Kashmir wins hands down ... Achilles' never really took off in the FM radio, and I think that it was too harsh and not caring enough in terms of Robert expressing himself. Achilles was much more about Jimmy than anyone else. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Kentucky_Hawkwindage
Date Posted: April 16 2014 at 04:50
|
Once again i have revived an old Poll,hopefully the PA police won't nab me,but i wanted to get in one this one & vote for Achilles Last Stand! ------------- "Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal" Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: April 16 2014 at 10:59
|
Love both, chose Achilles
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: April 16 2014 at 14:25
|
Both are classic Zeppelin, But its the Achillies` last stand. for me. I`ve pre-ordered the first three album`s on vinyl that's 7 lp`s of the greatest rock `n` roll band............ as they are best listened too on VINYL.........................   ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 17 2014 at 00:16
| Kashmir is Middle-Eastern flavoured and choc-full of Mellotron, but I can't resist the crunching rhythms of Achilles. Gotta go with the masses here. |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: April 22 2014 at 16:23
| Achilles' Last Stand is my favorite Zeppelin track, hands (and heels) down! |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 02 2015 at 06:33
|
Achilles' Last Stand one of my favorite Led Zep songs; I do like Kashmir as well, but ALS is so much better IMO. |
Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: February 02 2015 at 06:40
|
Achilles. Probably be my fav Led Zep track
------------- "Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl." |
Posted By: addictedtoprog
Date Posted: February 02 2015 at 07:28
| Achilles Last Stand over Kashmir. |
Posted By: Wakeman's Birotron
Date Posted: February 02 2015 at 12:36
| Achilles Last Stand is definitely my all time favorite Led Zep track, easy choice. |
Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: February 02 2015 at 13:49
| Had to pick Achilles' |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 02 2015 at 14:20
|
Going against the voting trend here and picking Kashmir.........there's something about Achilles that always annoyed me. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The Son of Gorp
Date Posted: February 02 2015 at 14:27
|
The end of Achilles always makes me stop whatever I'm doing and just listen. Lovely song. ------------- When Da Zeuhl Wortz Mekanik, you just know. |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: February 03 2015 at 07:28
|
Achilles is the last stand of Led Zep....they squeezed the formula one last time before they turned it over to the "new music" on the next LP. Presence is a terribly overlooked album....and with the circumstances of recording the thing, it's a wonder it's as good as it is. I'm really glad it's out there. Kashmir is another great Pagey riff among an album of great Pagey riffs. Achilles put a stamp on Presence that covers the whole record. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: February 12 2015 at 08:21
|
I think that Achilles' Last Stand is a much better epic, but I'm pretty sure Page or Plant said that Kashmir was the song that 'defined' LZ as a band and if he were asked what song made the band, he would answer thus. ------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: February 12 2015 at 12:05
|
I love both immensely, two great songs from their two best albums imo. I'm going to have to go with Achilles though.
|
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 06:43
both are indeed F ING EPIC and rank as 2 of their best, but i chose Achilles for this one.------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 11:58
|
Even though Achilles is the best track on Presence, nothing on that album does much to hold my attention. Kashmir ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |