I'd say, for example, that dividing a long piece of music into multiple sections and just calling each "Part I", "Part II", "Part III", "Part IV", etc is a cliché. 

Having a melody that only appears at the beginning and the end but nowhere in between is another cliché.

 

Your suggestions are welcome.  Please try to avoid picking on bands you don't like, let's keep it general.

 - The use of the Mellotron, Hammond, and the (Mini-)Moog.

 - Someone mentioned a few months ago that combining experimentation, improvisation, and classical influences can really do the trick. (Not always the case, like with Popol Vuh's Hosianna Mantra.)

 

No, Prog is an exception among clichés - most other styles of popular song last about three minutes, and have a verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/verse/chorus structure, whether they're ballads or rockers, funky or folky.

 

To quote the man who turned down The Beatles in 1962 - "guitar bands are on the way out".  Now add another fifty years of guitar bands to that.

 

The world of prog is comparatively free of clichés, but this topic is about spotting those clichés that are particular to prog.

 - (Crappy, vague, universal-anthemic) philosophical lyrics.

 - Concepts (well-thought-out ... and the opposite).

 - Daring artwork (well-thought-out ... and the opposite).

 - Occasional instrumental filler.

- having different parts of a song series in different albums

- using church pipe organ sound in a rock context

- guitar solos inspired by David Gilmour's

- singing about cosmic universal love instead of a man&woman's love

(I'm not remotely a Dylan fan, by the way)

 

1965 - Jukebox companies lose their tight grip on how long a pop song can be, and Dylan writes "Like A Rolling Stone", the first six-minute pop song.

1966 - Dylan releases the first double album.

 

I'd say having the first long song and the first double album makes him a prime mover for making prog possible.

 

It's only one thread.  Not like a This band vs That band poll, of which there are hundreds

Pipe organ thrown in for dramatic effect

Lyrics involving a quest usually by a soldier who then learns the futility of war

Fast keyboard runs for the sake of it

and I have just described Glass Hammer who I love. Who cares about cliche? I don't

A cliche is a little more transient a thing compared to an influence which to me is broader - its a motif, structure, lyrical device, gimmick, solo, instrument use, etc that has been known to work in the past and so gets used over and over. The electric guitar solo is the biggest cliche in all of rock, IMHO. And when none is really called for and you still get one, I get especially irritated. 

But otherwise, I'm just glad that prog is still alive and well. Its established itself as a marketable genre with a solid fan base thats not going away. Put out new prog year after year and if it sounds too much like old prog, I'll move on. But at least the genre didn't die out completely. 

aldri7

It's kind of hard not to, when you are slinging one of these babies around!   Rotosound strings, Herco plectrum etc.    

This one is a 1973...

...yeah, I guess playing a Rick bass with a plectrum IS a prog cliche!  Squire, Rutherford, Bennett, Camp, Strater etc.!   Greg Lake couldn't stand Ricks, and they aren't for everyone's tastes!  But man, do they play great!  

 - Experimentation by spitting on tape, dipping it in acid and playing it, etc. 

 

 Back to the topic though, we need to distinguish cliches from characteristics.  Characteristics are defining, cliches are overused or elements used for their own sake.

Hahaha, Richard Ayoade and Matt Berry - I *love* those guys! I wish they'd make more IT Crowd episodes... or Garth Marenghi's Darkplace for that matter... (On the other hand, there's probably already more than enough Mighty Boosh for the world to handle... )

I can't think of many rock idioms that employed the onstage cape as much as prog!  This is a nice one....Steve Howe, "Solos Tour," 14 August, 1976, Hawthorne Park, Illinois....

I don't see how trying something new equates to running out of ideas. Shouldn't bands be free to take whatever direction they choose?

I think there is a natural ornery aging process.  But the question is, where is the best

new music being produced?   In that sense, I hear a lot of cliche's in some of the newer prog

that isn't going in a direction like Yes and Genesis did in their own way, or pleasant

classical like ELP and others, and seems to be cliche in the way that other modern

rock is going, that is, its kind of dark, negative, depressing, kind of like watching a horror

movie only it's music.   You see this in a lot of prog metal.  To some people, you have to do that to

be creative, but that's really sophmoric. It's like these people are being fed by TV culture.

They should spend more time a a library. 

interesting point

dark music is more important than cheerful music. Cheerful music is made by happy go lucky shallow people

I guess Yes are just that then.  And all the other positive hippies.

Wow--what a prog guitar god---that is more of a shawl than a cape---someone else int the band did the cape thing.

Something else I've noticed that is that the more modern 'positive prog' often connects with religion ie Glass Hammer, The Flower Kings and Neal Morse are the closest to Yes in that respect. Anderson's spiritualism was a major part of Yes music although that expression was not overtly religious in the lyrics. Not sure what point I'm making but just a thought.

 

You nailed this!

Yes, but those of us, like myself, who do feel extreme grief or anger at the human condition realizes

that staying there does nothing to change the situation.  In fact, it becomes "resisting evil with evil"

which we are told not to do (ok, by Christ), but resist evil with good" (prog).  Staying in my grief or

anger is physically damaging, and science proves that.  So, when all these people stay in negative

art, to me, it's not a sign of sophistication, it's like being anti-science.  That's a different type of

Pollyanna attitude.  

I was really amazed by that album actually.  It's phenomenal.  Miles ahead of their last last few.

Staying with, that is to say, suppressing and beating yourself down with anger is bad.  But venting it is good for yourself (maybe not for the neighbourhood ) and music is one way to.  I think an artist would one way or the other express his thoughts about subjects that disturb him.   But I don't disagree with your point; this sad/serious pose in itself has become a cliche.  It's as if anything that doesn't sound serious is inherently bad/pop whatever.

http://elephant-talk.com/wiki/Interview_with_John_Wetton_in_Big_Bang_Magazine" rel="nofollow - http://elephant-talk.com/wiki/Interview_with_John_Wetton_in_Big_Bang_Magazine

From having been on the new suggestions team, I did tend to end up in a lot of those... 

1973.  Yep.  I still act like I'm in high school sometimes.  Okay.  A lot of the time!   

The funny thing is, there are prog fans who think Wetton is pretentious and pompous for saying something so 'offensive'.  Yeah, nevermind if he played with KC and UK, you know more than Wetton about prog, that's the way it goes.

I doubt that Weton is well up on the current prog scene tbh. He has basically described Anglagard but I don't think a band like say Anathema are anything like what he describes. John does have his well voiced criticisms of prog not much unlike Steven Wilson has also received similar bashing. However at least Steven knows the prog scene now.

 

It's not a cliché the first time somebody does it.  It becomes a cliché after too many people do the same thing.  Playing guitar like Hendrix wasn't a cliché when Hendrix did it, but later became one.

something different than just an abbreviation of "progressive" rock

for those who care about such things.  

a new term for newer progressive rock that has some of the 

musical elements of prog but not the lyrical content. 

I don't see how you can carry on a tradition and not carry on the

thematic content in a literary sense.   That would not be true

in historical aesthetic movements, like Romanticism, Baroque, 

Impressionsism,  and so on. 

Isn't there a live 90's album with Wetton (Steve Hackett in Japan, or Asia in Japan, or something) where they play an old Genesis or Crimson song and after Wetton asks the audience, "Was that prog enough for you?"