is rock 'n' roll dying, or is it already dead?
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Forum Name: General Music Discussions
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94273
Printed Date: June 05 2025 at 18:48
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Topic: is rock 'n' roll dying, or is it already dead?
Posted By: sherrynoland
Subject: is rock 'n' roll dying, or is it already dead?
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 16:36
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I'm curious as to how many active members there are on progaqrchives.com. I know they cite something like 40,000 members, but when I look at the forum board, there are usually only a few viewers if any at all on any one forum. I'd also like to know from anyone who's willing to say, how many CDs and concert tickets did you purchase in the last year? I ask partly because I'm really very surprised at the lack of response here to the news I've been posting about the return of prog pioneers Flash. They were a seminal prog band and one of few to actually have charted with both an album and a single. Their albums have been reissued over the years numerous times and their singles included on many compilations celebrating that era. They've always enjoyed critical acclaim and airplay all over the world for their music including their new CD, even in these tough days in the music industry. And some of the Flash songs on youtube have tens of thousands of views. These guys are gold.,,the real thing beyond dispute. They are veterans, rich with history and experience, contemporaries and collaborators with many of the musicians lionized today from that era. They were at the heart of, and instrumental to the birth of the music we all say we love. When I told Flash lead guitarist/bassist/singer/writer, Ray Bennett, that Wishbone Ash (who Flash toured with) and Nektar drew only 50 people at a venue last week, he wondered whether there is the same kind of enthusiasm for real quality rock music today that there was in the 60's and 70's when they were coming of age and rock 'n' roll was still so new? People were hungry for it and turned out en mass to hear it. People complain about the shallowness of pop music today, but when something better is offered, who supports it? It can't survive without us. http://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter ------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Replies:
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:00
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Rock 'n Roll is very much alive and well. It has moved out of the mainstream. That is all. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:02
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Maybe it's just that nobody cares about Flash and people don't like being advertised at.
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:09
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thellama73 wrote:Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:22
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You two are clean ignorant.
I care about Flash.
Great band.
You dont care about Flash? Then prepare to be saddled with the consequences: you are ignorant of good music, Jimmehs.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:23
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I never considered Flash a 'seminal' prog band but did like their early lp's.
As far as rock being dead....in a word no. Their are new good rock and prog rock bands all the time. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:44
| There is a difference between being interested in a band (I'm interested in lot's of bands) and willing to shell out money and time to go see them in our busy lives---as opposed to just watching them on YouTube---I love prog but there are only a handful of groups that I will take the time and go see live--usually just the one's I'm obsessed with---and they usually have someone in the band that I'm a fan boy for---but that's just me. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:49
Yeah, ignorant like a fox! -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:51
This is what Sherry is asking.
------------- What? |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 18:07
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Prog Masterman here.
Not Jimmeh Nobody.
Prog Masterman.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 18:33
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... so that's a "no" to all four questions then. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 18:46
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as to the OP's questions - Not sure how many active members; a good number compared to almost any other music forum. A few viewers in any one forum is normal, the total number on a weekend or other high-volume time is fairly respectable. I don't go to nearly as many live shows as I used to but I'm 46 and put in my concert time; waiting in two-day lines for tickets, cramming up front at sweltering summer shows, roadcrewing for local bands, snagging banners, flyers and set-lists. Saw well over a hundred shows in my day. I don't really need to see Greg Lake taking oxygen between numbers or Neil Peart's standard drum solo for the fifth time. Flash? Good authentic prog band, as the OP states. I love me some oldtime prog, In the Can didn't quite impress me as much as say Morgan's Nova Solis or Iceberg's Coses Nostres or Yezda Urfa's Sacred Baboon, but I still appreciate them and what they stand for. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 19:31
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To answer your questions, I buy between 100 & 150 cd's a year split pretty much 50:50 between old & new stuff. I go to two festival a year and around 10 to 12 other concerts, everything between 10 and 2000 people. Flash aren't really my thing, I checked out their material but it ain't for me. I'm doing what I can to support the music but that doesn't include people overly forcefully pushing bands I'm not into. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 20:12
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Neil Young and I agree that Rock and Roll will never die. Like Ian I feel I do my part although not this year because of financial problems.  Flash aren't my bag either but then we all have different tastes. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 20:46
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As long as people are listening to it and bands are playing it, whether the music is new or not, Rock is not dead. That is not to say it is in the mainstream of popularity. We live in strange musical times. Many of us remember when Rock was the height of popularity and when several Prog bands were extremely popular. The music listening public is fickle, however, and the unwashed masses are content to hear only what amuses them at the moment. There is more music now that is more widely available than ever before. I am not that familiar with the music of Flash, but it is good to hear that they are still active. Right now, I am listening to Todd Rundgren's Utopia, which I just bought (and he just released a new album). I have acquired several dozen albums this year so far, mostly through purchase but also through trading with some buddies of mine. Little of that is brand new, however. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 21:34
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Thank you, Sherry! I've pondered this question myself, having tried to help quite a few bands from the 1970's (Captain Beyond, Brand X etc.) come back in the 1990's and beyond. First, I'd like to say that the musical product of many of these bands usually is as good as it was at their peak. I recently saw Andy Powell's "Wishbone Ash" at a large bar in Illinois, the place was packed and music fantastic. However, it wasn't nearly as large of a crowd as when they played at the Chicago Auditorium in 1973, when Flash opened the show for Wishbone Ash. In some ways, it is a "best of both worlds" for musicians and fans, as the musicians get to play in more acoustic-friendly venues, and fans get to see their favorites up close, even meeting with them. I've done this with many bands....Cheap Trick, Peter Frampton, Jon Anderson, Brand X, Gong, Return to Forever etc. all seem to be playing smaller venues. Some bands still can pack large venues....The 35th Anniversary show for Yes in Chicago was at an immense venue (Allstate Arena), and it was sold out, just like Yes used to do in its hey-day. That was a very special tour, and lately the reformulated Yes, featuring a substitute for Jon Anderson on vocals, struggles to fill theaters at gambling casinos. So, it depends upon the product and fan base, they can smell a fake a mile away. Bands who have recently packed the larger halls in Chicago include Rush, Dream Theater and The Police. Several smaller prog-friendly venues are opening in Chicago and its suburbs, such as the Arcada Theater in St. Charles. Carl Palmer Band recently played there, and Steve Hackett will play this fall. http://www.oshows.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.oshows.com/ Returning 70's bands throughout the Midwest USA have found enthusiastic and receptive audiences at many summertime festivals. I've seen Blue Oyster Cult, Savoy Brown and many other mainstays of the 1970s at events such as Naperville Ribfest. Daryl Struermer played several local fairs last season. So no, rock isn't dying or dead, but it is changing. The bad news is that the very large venues of yesterday don't hold nearly so many shows as they used to, and marijuana use is very much clamped down at these, unlike the "good old days" when you could barely see the stages!! The good news is that the equipment is better, the venues are more intimate, and a good time can still be had by everyone. Concerts are less dangerous, more fan-friendly and the quality of the music and performance is emphasized vs. doing a lot of drugs and getting wasted. I'm happy with how things are evolving. Flash are welcome anytime they want to visit Chicago!! Take care, best to Ray and Colin!
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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 21:51
qft ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 08:57
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Honestly, it's music. We classify it as rock'n'roll, but it does not classify itself. Even if our classifications die, the music will not. |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 16:48
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------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 16:50
------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 17:49
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I am not familiar with Flash, I don't know if I have ever heard their music before. I go to as many concerts as I can...not living in L.A. or NY or UK, here in Seattle we don't get that many prog artists our way...but when they come I go. I don't buy that many CD's anymore, I listen to vinyl pretty much, so I find quite a bit of the older stuff, as well as many new releases. Rock n roll will never die, but its not at the front of the music industry anymore. Jr High kids do not want to listen to Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes or Flash........They want rap, hip hop and boy band pop music, some electronic stuff too, its what is in fashion nowadays. Its music and at least they are listening to something...whether you like it or not is another topic of conversation. -------------   
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Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 18:09
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You have to wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg—is it fashion or a corporate force-fed industry? Any genre can be distorted and exploited out of all proportion by the "sausage factory." That's why so much sounds alike. The most vital stuff is probably grass roots, most of which doesn't get heard outside our own community. Music lovers running the music biz used to have the power and the desire to pluck an exciting band from obscurity, and lose money until they took off because they loved the music. That was happening a lot in the 60's and allowed prog to flourish. Today, the corporate committee makes their own bands, hires people who look/play/dance/sing just like their last big hit. Or performers do it to themselves to try to get noticed by these puppet masters. That's always been the way "mainstream" operates, and where the BIG money is, but it seems worse than ever right now. And both the biz and the "artists" are responsible. Rock is an attitude and a lifestyle. It's always been a revolt from all that. And in the beginning prog was part of the "anything goes" revolt. I trust it will get better again! I think, as with everything else, humanity is evolving towards more PERSONAL responsibility. Now that we're in a digital age and can find and share music so easily, and also steal it, we have to decide one person at a time whether we will, or not. One way or another, music will go on...
------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 18:59
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 19:07
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1. What came first was the egg factory. Mass produced popular music was all there was - tin pan alley was a mass-market music machine - back in the early 20th century the business was to sell sheet-music, the "pop" stars were merely the advertising barkers there to popularise a song so the publishing companies could sell the printed score. That's why copyright law is so archic and tied to "song lyrics", that's why royalties were originally for the composer of the melody and lyricist (not the drummer or the bass player or the rhtymn section) because they were the names on the sheet-music - who played it (performance royalties) were not even considered until later. Remember non-mainstream music is a modern invention, yet let's not kid ourselves that that the music we listen to is high-brow escoteric "art" - it's still "mainstream", it's still "popular" music.
2. If your advances meet with a wall of indifference, don't blame the wall. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 19:45
I wouldn't say that non-mainstream music is just modern; I think it's more accurate to say that non-mainstream pop/rock music has only become accessible to the general population with the internet age. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 19:50
Yes, evolution isn't a straight line, it's a spiral and sometimes we seem to be going backward. However successfully, some musicians strive to produce art; that is, they discipline themselves, learn their craft, and give everything they've got to step out of the way of the muse, and be honest and pure of heart in what they do. That's art, baby. And pop music CAN be art. The Beatles should have proved that for everyone once and for all. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 19:53
Tell that to all the artists of the world, and they'll tell you you don't know what you're talking about. Tell it to all the artists who died paupers, like Mozart and Van Gogh. The status quo has always resisted art. Thank god, artists who are met with indifference don't give up. The world would be a poor place indeed. However, if you're talking about me on this site, I'VE LEARNED MY LESSON. I'm not functioning in artist mode here. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 20:01
Yes, there is good music in every genre, whether pop or anything else; Dean's point is important because we like to bemoan the state of the pop music industry today but popular music has always been market-driven: from Tin Pan Alley to rock 'n roll to rap and hip-hop, and there have been certain eras where better quality music has been produced because of the state of the industry, but in the end it's up to individual artists and groups to make their own quality music; there's good and bad music in every style. Like you pointed out, there's good stuff that comes out of the mainstream pop industry (from the Beatles to Adele). What we need to get rid of is the illusion that "high art" made without regard to audience is somehow superior to "pop art"; I've heard this a lot (not as much here as in other circles) and it's ridiculous, most of the stuff people consider "high art" was music made by people looking to earn a living and please a wealthy patron. In the end, labels like "mainstream" and "popular" and "high-brow" often obscure the truth; they might be necessary for practical purposes but in the end, all there is is music - and that music must be judged on it's own merits. Darn, I'm starting to sound like Pedro  ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 20:04
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Well said, Hurricane! ------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 20:07
(And Mozart didn't die a pauper, he wasn't wealthy but he was popular and was earning a living when he died) ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 20:16
I mean "modern" from my prespective as an old fart looking at the entire history of popular music, not yours as a young whippersnapper - "modern" as in anything from the mid-20th century onwwards - way before the interwebs was discovered. ------------- What? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 20:20
Music is sound. You can't own sound, therefore you can't steal sound. I don't download music because I like owning a physical object like a CD or a record, and because I like to support the artist, but I don't think making a copy of a file I own is stealing any more than making a copy of key I own is. But I digress... -------------
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 20:31
So you don't think people made non mainstream music in the 1800's? That seems a bit unrealistic to me. Of course we would have little record of such music, seeing as there was no way to record it (and once recording technology came around, it would have been too expensive for most people in its early days) and it probably wouldn't have been written down in a way that it would have survived into the present day. But that doesn't mean it didn't exist - if human nature was the same back then as it was now, then there's no way people didn't make their own music, play it for people in houses and on street corners, well outside of the mainstream but still alive and real. And even the early forms of popular music came from this kind of music - what we would today consider "folk" music was the foundation on which popular music was built, Tin Pan Alley businessmen didn't just invent new types of music on their own. Again, I would say that non-mainstream music is not a modern invention - instead, it has been around for ages but has only been made accessible through technology. "Whippersnapper" is a cool word, by the way. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 20:32
There's nothing illegal about making a copy of the file you own. The illegal part is stealing the file in the first place. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 20:56
Mozart was having to beg friends for money at the end of his life. But there are endless other examples of the point I'm making and I think you know it. As for spamming, that's bullsh*t. Back in the beginning, not knowing any betterI put a post on every forum that I thought pertained to the material. I accepted that that wasn't necessary, when I was told that people would see it if I only posted on one, because they look at all the forums. Then when there was something new to post, like the record company's press release for the new CD on the Prog News and Press Release forum, these posts were moved within other threads about other subjects, like a two-yr-old post about the reunion. All they had in common was that they were both about Flash. Meantime, I was seeing lots of threads about other bands. Didn't seem fair to me and when I said so, the messages I got WERE hostile—very unfriendly—just as your comments are now. I was here for only one purpose—not to have discussions like this thread, but to impart all the latest news about Flash. Is there anything wrong with that? Imparting info instead of discussing? I didn't know that wasn't allowed either. After being clued in to how the site works, I didn't repeat myself unless it seemed appropriate in response to a comment. it's certainly not spamming. Look up the definition. I'll gladly leave now. Carry on. I'll leave you with this comment from one of many on the Flash facebook page. The music is what it's all about. Either you like it, or you don't... https://www.facebook.com/erik.endresen.1" rel="nofollow - Erik Endresen OMG! Fantastic cd. This new release towers over your other three releases. The music is at times over the top intense and man the bass guitar is incredible. I have not heard bass like that since the release of Beck, Bogart Appice. Excellent production... Keep it up- after all of these 40 years! I want more! ------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 21:37
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^ Mozart had to beg friends for money the same way Ozzy probably had to between Sabbath and having hit solo records. That doesn't mean he was a pauper. Hendrix was working and selling a respectable amount of wax but was often cash-poor due all kinds of things as bad management, drug addiction, thievery, unwise contractual agreements. John Lennon understood the realities of having to find "Money for dope", and not just for working class heroes. It is romantic and simplistic to think popular artists are - or are not, for that matter - in need of cash. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 21:51
Trying to shill product while denying that you are shilling product is still shilling product. And shilling while you make your dramatic exit is the apotheosis of shilling. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 22:14
What if I then give that copy to friend? If I own it, I should be able to give it away, right? What if I make a thousand copies and give them to a thousand friends? -------------
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 22:23
I say that if you buy a CD or download an album, you own it; but you bought one copy. What other formats you want to convert it to is your own choice, but once you start giving it away you not only presume to own the copy of the record but to own the intellectual property to the music itself. I see this as not only illegal, but just plain unethical. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 22:28
I don't see how you can own a sound or a thought. I also don't see how something can be stealing if you don't deprive someone of something they own. If I copy your music, you still have it. You have lost nothing, so how can it be theft. You will likely answer that you have lost potential revenue from your music, but how can you claim ownership of something that is only potential? People deciding not to buy your music doesn't violate your rights. -------------
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 22:29
So in other words you don't believe in intellectual property? ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 22:48
Exactly. -------------
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 22:48
No he doesn't believe in paying for music and doesn't mind if it all goes away due to lack of funding. Apparently he doesn't believe there are any expenses that need to be recouped to record the music in the first place. It just 'happens'. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 22:50
Did I not say that I never download music because I want to support the artist? I believe I did. Please don't put words in my mouth. There is little evidence that art ceases to be made in the lack of IP law. For example, people make lots of money as fashion designers or chefs, even though there is no IP protection for recipes or designs. -------------
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 22:50
Well said sir, there's nothing worse that someone shilling a product getting the hump when people don't fawn over the product. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 23:18
I thiink I said something about......at least the kids are listening to music, whether you like it or not is another issue....regardless of genre. Bands like Nectar, Wishbone Ash may know they will not attract a large audience anymore, but 50 people is a bit unsettling, if true......maybe they are just not good anymore live. -------------
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 23:21
I do. I see where you're coming from, though, and I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree - 'cause I doubt either of us can prove whether intellectual property exists or not (though if you can, I'm willing to listen). ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 23:26
Maybe. I haven't heard them and was never a fan. But people who were there said they were great. Some said even better than ever. I was gratified to hear that their Chicago gig had a good turn-out, and the audience was loving it. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 23:33
Nah, that's okay. I can't prove anything, but I think the logic is sound. I only very recently came around to not believing in IP, so it's certainly a difficult issue. -------------
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Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 01 2013 at 23:50
Excuse me for interrupting the discussion about IP, but I want to respond to Dark Elk's comment. I'm not denying that I've been advertising product, or "shilling" as you call it. You're just plain wrong to accuse me of denying anything. I said that's what I was here for—to share info about Flash and to promote them. There's nothing wrong with that in my book. You don't like it? Fine. Some people do. Some people are actually thrilled with all the news they can get about new music from a veteran band. But, as I said, I was slow to accept that there aren't many here, so I've agreed to stop. I started this post to be sure of that. No matter how surprised I am, I'm not "getting the hump" over that, Nogbad. What I don't like is how unfriendly and impolite some of you are, like yourself. Flash has always been more popular with a free-thinking, non-judgmental, happy, pleasant crowd who appreciates that what they do IS art. Art makes you happy. Discussing it intellectually won't. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 00:11
Yeah, I can see both sides and they both make sense. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 01:30
------------- What? |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 02:08
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Well I used to go and watch bands at my local Art Centre on a regular basis (and this included Wishbone Ash, Mountain, Colosseum , Carl Palmer , Focus etc) with an audience of around 100-150 people (that is the rough capacity). However around 5 years ago the last gig I saw there was Steve Howe .. and it wasn't a sell out. The writing was on the wall. I think the economic downturn has a had a massive impact on classic bands although the very biggest will still get by. Be interesting to see how Yes get on next year without Anderson and Wakeman. BTW does anyone know whether The High Voltage Festival has bit the dust for good?
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 02:11
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Nothing dies, nothing lives. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 02:22
qft ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 02:23
------------- What? |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 02:38
Rock was big in the 60s and 70s. Never again will it be that big. There are still great rock bands, it's just they rarely make big money. Just let it go. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 02:41
------------- What? |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 02:50
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^Of course they did, and I have little doubt in hindsight our current time will be seen as a great time for all music because you can get it, whether disc or download. It is available like it never has been, new and old, popular and un-, and it may not be that way forever. Just saying. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 03:04
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^ exactly ------------- What? |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 05:39
True artists would be glad to just MAKE A LIVING. Nobody's asking to make BIG MONEY. Just a living to survive and go on making music, without being dependent on others would be nice. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 06:49
Here's hoping High Voltage returns next year,
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 06:59
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As far as Flash goes, i love their early sound, especially the debut, and In The Can, which have stood the test of time for me quite well.
As far as live concerts, prog or otherwise, i don't go to them anymore because i have permanent tinnitus in both ears. Rightly, or wrongly, (many would think wrongly!) I don't have much enthusiasm for the current music scene in terms of new releases. I'm so busy with the seventies, i guess. I have not heard the new Flash yet. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 08:40
How do you make a living from music without being dependent on others? You have to depend on others to buy your records and to buy tickets to your concerts don't you? -------------
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 09:05
Very true.....bands still need some assemblance of a "fan base" to make a couple bucks. I am probably wrong, but I remember reading about I think Echolyn, these guys have other FT jobs, I thinks some as teachers.....and the band thing is just something they enjoy doing. What I like is that they are making music because they want to, not because they have to, to put food on the table for their families.....I think this is where some of the bad feelings come from, when bands don't make enough money, they can get mad. In today's world if they want to make that kind of money they need to record rap/hip hop or simple plain jane pop music, something that will get played on the FM and maybe get them on a music show, TV show or awards show. -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 09:18
I bought one (three if you count the people who went with me). I went to see Kansas at the state fair. That's it. I don't know how many albums I bought. Not as many as I used to, I know that much.
Have you checked out the latest Epignosis album?  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 09:27
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 09:41
I think I'll have it done this summer. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 10:39
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"is rock 'n' roll dying or dead?" No of course not.
Here's some evidence, from a few weeks ago: ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 10:45
I don't know why some one would think rock is dying with all the bands out there making a decent living from it but am I the only one who thinks that 'sherry' is promoting Flash a little too fervently...?
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 10:59
It is this summer....hurry up already!  -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 16:07
I'm a rock star who sunlights as an English teacher.  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 17:10
Woohoo! ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 17:23
I have to disagree when you take a swipe at kids. Sure there will always be an element of commercialism that reeks and the recent Idol/The Voice type TV formats captures that commercialism but I think you may well be being derogatory at kids in general. In fact the kids I know and talk to are extremely well informed and believe it or not due to the digital age they have been born into have a vast knowledge of music today crossing a wide array of genres..." Rock N Roll" too if we like that tag. Music is more alive today than it ever was. Whether the category is indie/alt/prog/rock/RnB/Rap or Pop etc etc the amount of excellent artists out there is unbelievable and you would need a couple of lifetimes to discover it all. I recently watched a Van Morrison interview on You Tube following his recent Hollywood Bowl " Astral Weeks" performance a few years back and I watched in disbelief as he stated that he does not listen to any new music these days cos it has all been done already. Now I am a big admirer of VM but was saddened that he, with all his incredible experience and wisdom, could state such a flawed comment. Rock n Roll will never die and there is tons of good new music out there. Regarding Flash or Wishbone Ash, come on lets face it noone has the right to want these guys to hang up their guitar strings but after more than 40 years of performing you would need to have a small cult following in the main to keep money rolling in. Hence why so many bands have taken to the road again in recent years to keep earning some well earned bucks and sure feed their passion at the same time. Anyways I am rambling a bit but please do not underestimate kids and what music they like cos you may well be surprised what is out there beyond prog and rock n Roll ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 18:33
In other news, ... there's http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93641&KW=die" rel="nofollow - this .
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 19:22
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Ms Noland, I hope I didn't offend you in my brief response. I was, however, trying to imply something fuller, and if you don't mind, I'll expand on it. That no one seems interested in Flash's latest isn't indicative that rock and roll is perishing. Now I'm not really in the music business, mind you. I've played in several bands, taught guitar for years, and I do make an album from time to time. In four years I've made about $350 on my recordings. And you know what? That thought encourages me. It means there are people out there who will give me money for my music (and I once played a gig for beer- I'm sure they wish they would have just given me money...they might have come out cheaper). The point is that you cannot force people to listen to something, let alone buy it. The fact that Flash was so big in the 70s (I don't know- I wasn't there) and yet somehow now are not isn't the knell of rock music; instead, it's the sound of http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?syears=2012#list" rel="nofollow - newer prog rock bands who are kicking ass with amazing material people go out of their way to hear. And that's just 2012. The day you complain about not being able to support yourself as a musician is the very day you need to get a job. Flash has been around a lot longer than I have, is better known than me, and yet there is now more interest in this thread in my music than there was in Flash's. That was not my intention, but there's a few reasons for that happening. First, I am a part of this community. I didn't join this site to sell music. I joined because I share an interest with these people. I've been here since 2007, I write reviews, I help add bands, and I've made friends I may never see face to face. I'm here because I like being here. Second, "Here's what's better than pop music" isn't going to snag contemporary prog lovers. We don't care about what's better than pop- because we already know. The "kids" that you want don't listen to what the "industry" creates (we don't even know what that industry is because we never cared much about it). If getting kids who care about the industry is what you want, then you're barking up the wrong tree. My suggestion is that Flash should listen to some of the newer bands around and interact with them. Instead of this:
Imagine what it would be like for an up-and-coming prog band to have their record bought by Ray Bennett of Flash. "Holy crap, the bassist from Flash heard our album and says it's good stuff!" Or perhaps, "Ray Bennett heard our album. He says we have potential, but that we should limit the guitar solos to where they make sense." Get to know people. Even if you don't sell albums, you may make some new friends. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 02 2013 at 23:17
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 09:33
Mr Skeletor.....I understand, keep us posted on the new material, I know it will be good stuff! Regards -------------
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 09:52
Great post.....as an example I recall when District 97 first began, they joined PA and made some posts about their music and upcoming album. People here encouraged them and looked forward to their release, it was met with pretty good reviews, the second album also was good with good reviews too. The band also enjoyed support from the likes of John Wetton and they have even done some shows together playing D97 material and King Crimson stuff.....That probably exposed a lot of these "kids" to King Crimson, which is a good thing. -------------
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