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Topic Closedis rock 'n' roll dying, or is it already dead?

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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: is rock 'n' roll dying, or is it already dead?
    Posted: June 30 2013 at 16:36
I'm curious as to how many active members there are on progaqrchives.com.  I know they cite something like 40,000 members, but when I look at the forum board, there are usually only a few viewers if any at all on any one forum.

I'd also like to know from anyone who's willing to say, how many CDs and concert tickets did you purchase in the last year?

I ask partly because I'm really very surprised at the lack of response here to the news I've been posting about the return of prog pioneers Flash.  They were a seminal prog band and one of few to actually have charted with both an album and a single.  Their albums have been reissued over the years numerous times and their singles included on many compilations celebrating that era.  They've always enjoyed critical acclaim and airplay all over the world for their music including their new CD, even in these tough days in the music industry.  And some of the Flash songs on youtube have tens of thousands of views.

These guys are gold.,,the real thing beyond dispute.  They are veterans, rich with history and experience, contemporaries and collaborators with many of the musicians lionized today from that era.  They were at the heart of, and instrumental to the birth of the music we all say we love.

When I told Flash lead guitarist/bassist/singer/writer, Ray Bennett, that Wishbone Ash (who Flash toured with) and Nektar drew only 50 people at a venue last week, he wondered whether there is the same kind of enthusiasm for real quality rock music today that there was in the 60's and 70's when they were coming of age and rock 'n' roll was still so new?  People were hungry for it and turned out en mass to hear it.  

People complain about the shallowness of pop music today, but when something better is offered, who supports it?  It can't survive without us.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:00
Rock 'n Roll is very much alive and well.  It has moved out of the mainstream.  That is all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:02
Maybe it's just that nobody cares about Flash and people don't like being advertised at.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:09
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Maybe it's just that nobody cares about Flash and people don't like being advertised at.
thisWink
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Knobby View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:22
You two are clean ignorant.
 
I care about Flash.
 
Great band.
 
You dont care about Flash? Then prepare to be saddled with the consequences: you are ignorant of good music, Jimmehs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:23
I never considered Flash a 'seminal' prog band but did like their early lp's.
As far as rock being dead....in a word no. Their are new good rock and prog rock bands all the time.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:44
There is a difference between being interested in a band (I'm interested in lot's of bands) and willing to shell out money and time to go see them in our busy lives---as opposed to just watching them on YouTube---I love prog but there are only a handful of groups that I will take the time and go see live--usually just the one's I'm obsessed with---and they usually have someone in the band that I'm a fan boy for---but that's just me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:49
Originally posted by Knobby Knobby wrote:

You two are clean ignorant.
 
I care about Flash.
 
Great band.
 
You dont care about Flash? Then prepare to be saddled with the consequences: you are ignorant of good music, Jimmehs.


Yeah, ignorant like a fox!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:51
Originally posted by Knobby Knobby wrote:

You two are clean ignorant.
 
I care about Flash.
 
Great band.
 
You dont care about Flash? Then prepare to be saddled with the consequences: you are ignorant of good music, Jimmehs.
Have you their latest album? Have you reviewed it? Have you commented upon it in the forum? Do you even know they've released an album this year?
 
This is what Sherry is asking.
 
What?
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Knobby View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 18:07
Prog Masterman here.
Not Jimmeh Nobody.
Prog Masterman.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 18:33
... so that's a "no" to all four questions then.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 18:46
as to the OP's questions -

Not sure how many active members; a good number compared to almost any other music forum.  A few viewers in any one forum is normal, the total number on a weekend or other high-volume time is fairly respectable.

I don't go to nearly as many live shows as I used to but I'm 46 and put in my concert time; waiting in two-day lines for tickets, cramming up front at sweltering summer shows, roadcrewing for local bands, snagging banners, flyers and set-lists.    Saw well over a hundred shows in my day.   I don't really need to see Greg Lake taking oxygen between numbers or Neil Peart's standard drum solo for the fifth time.

Flash?   Good authentic prog band, as the OP states.   I love me some oldtime prog, In the Can didn't quite impress me as much as say Morgan's Nova Solis or Iceberg's Coses Nostres or Yezda Urfa's Sacred Baboon, but I still appreciate them and what they stand for.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 19:31
To answer your questions, I buy between 100 & 150 cd's a year split pretty much 50:50 between old & new stuff. I go to two festival a year and around 10 to 12 other concerts, everything between 10 and 2000 people.

Flash aren't really my thing, I checked out their material but it ain't for me. 

I'm doing what I can to support the music but that doesn't include people overly forcefully pushing bands I'm not into.


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - June 30 2013 at 19:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 20:12
Neil Young and I agree that Rock and Roll will never die.
Like Ian I feel I do my part although not this year because of financial problems.Unhappy
Flash aren't my bag either but then we all have different tastes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 20:46
As long as people are listening to it and bands are playing it, whether the music is new or not, Rock is not dead.  That is not to say it is in the mainstream of popularity.  We live in strange musical times.  Many of us remember when Rock was the height of popularity and when several Prog bands were extremely popular.  The music listening public is fickle, however, and the unwashed masses are content to hear only what amuses them at the moment.  There is more music now that is more widely available than ever before.  I am not that familiar with the music of Flash, but it is good to hear that they are still active.  Right now, I am listening to Todd Rundgren's Utopia, which I just bought (and he just released a new album).  I have acquired several dozen albums this year so far, mostly through purchase but also through trading with some buddies of mine.  Little of that is brand new, however.
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 21:34
Thank you, Sherry!  I've pondered this question myself, having tried to help quite a few bands from the 1970's (Captain Beyond, Brand X etc.) come back in the 1990's and beyond. 

First, I'd like to say that the musical product of many of these bands usually is as good as it was at their peak.  I recently saw Andy Powell's "Wishbone Ash" at a large bar in Illinois, the place was packed and music fantastic.  

However, it wasn't nearly as large of a crowd as when they played at the Chicago Auditorium in 1973, when Flash opened the show for Wishbone Ash.  

In some ways, it is a "best of both worlds" for musicians and fans, as the musicians get to play in more acoustic-friendly venues, and fans get to see their favorites up close, even meeting with them.  I've done this with many bands....Cheap Trick, Peter Frampton, Jon Anderson, Brand X, Gong, Return to Forever etc. all seem to be playing smaller venues.  

Some bands still can pack large venues....The 35th Anniversary show for Yes in Chicago was at an immense venue (Allstate Arena), and it was sold out, just like Yes used to do in its hey-day.  That was a very special tour, and lately the reformulated Yes, featuring a substitute for Jon Anderson on vocals, struggles to fill theaters at gambling casinos.  So, it depends upon the product and fan base, they can smell a fake a mile away. 

Bands who have recently packed the larger halls in Chicago include Rush, Dream Theater and The Police.  Several smaller prog-friendly venues are opening in Chicago and its suburbs, such as the Arcada Theater in St. Charles. Carl Palmer Band recently played there, and Steve Hackett will play this fall.  http://www.oshows.com/

Returning 70's bands throughout the Midwest USA have found enthusiastic and receptive audiences at many summertime festivals.  I've seen Blue Oyster Cult, Savoy Brown and many other mainstays of the 1970s at events such as Naperville Ribfest.  Daryl Struermer played several local fairs last season. 

So no, rock isn't dying or dead, but it is changing.   The bad news is that the very large venues of yesterday don't hold nearly so many shows as they used to, and marijuana use is very much clamped down at these, unlike the "good old days" when you could barely see the stages!!  

The good news is that the equipment is better, the venues are more intimate, and a good time can still be had by everyone.   Concerts are less dangerous, more fan-friendly and the quality of the music and performance is emphasized vs. doing a lot of drugs and getting wasted.  I'm happy with how things are evolving.

Flash are welcome anytime they want to visit Chicago!!  

Take care, best to Ray and Colin!  Clap


Edited by cstack3 - June 30 2013 at 21:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2013 at 21:51
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Rock 'n Roll is very much alive and well.  It has moved out of the mainstream.  That is all.

qft
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2013 at 08:57
Honestly, it's music. We classify it as rock'n'roll, but it does not classify itself. Even if our classifications die, the music will not.
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2013 at 16:48



Edited by sherrynoland - July 01 2013 at 19:41
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2013 at 16:50
Music will never die.  I don't think we could, or would want to live on this planet without it.  It's unimaginable.  I'm pretty sure the vibrations keep our hearts pumping, and they would harden and crumble without it. Big smile

And all I have to do is listen to Ray alone in his studio to know rock is alive and well.  But he, and the late great Peter Banks who received an explosion of appreciation all over the world when he died—even at The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame ceremony this year—had to have a great deal of benevolent financial support over the years to continue to be artists rather than hacks.  And the world would have heard a lot more of their music if the music industry still nurtured art.

This is a generalization, but the industry (which always leaned towards the mercenary like the rest of our culture), has been taken out of the hands of a few creative, music-loving individuals (CEOs, DJs, promoters, etc.) and turned over to corporations with no heart at all.  In spite of what the SCOTUS said, corps. are not people.  They're obviously GROUPS of people who hide from having to individually express themselves—be free and take responsibility for their choices, win or lose—within the group. That's what has to change.  Art doesn't function that way.  It takes the divine inspiration and action of individuals.

Put all this into the digital age and people aren't buying music just as some of you said.  They listen for free.  And where does that leave the artist?  I know you've heard all this before.  But it's a self-fulfilling prophesy.  You get what you pay for.  I found it astounding when the Flash CD was released, that they were in the top 20 ranking in their category on amazon all the first week—#1 at one point—and only sold 106 CDs!

Music may not be dead, but it's on life support.  We've returned to an age of patronage.  Those of us who love it enough to support it ourselves if we can, have to step up to do what we can.  I'm proud to say, I helped produce the new Flash CD.  I love the music.  I love the musicians.  I've watched them maintain their integrity through difficult times over the years up close and personal.  So forgive me if I've been pushy.  Ray says that about me, too.  He told me, when I met with silence or what seemed to me unfriendly administrators, that I should stop posting here; that I was wasting my time.  I was obviously annoying people.   

But I didn't want to believe that at a site dedicated to the love of prog music there weren't enough apparently "silent" fans who would respect Flash's contribution and be excited, or at least curious about their new music to make it worthwhile to continue.  That's what prompted this post—How many of us are there?

I have faith that this will all work out in the end, that Flash will be able to carry on and the world will get to see—just like the old days—that they're even better live than in the studio.  It's dazzling, and uplifting to see—even without lights "flash"-ing and dancing girls and boys—this caliber of musicianship with your own two eyes.  Nothing like it.

So, I'll pipe down about it all and refer anyone who might be interested to their facebook page.  http://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter  

I appreciate what you all had to say.  Thanks.
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