BS Never Say Die VS LZ In Through The Out Door
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98218
Printed Date: May 02 2024 at 01:28
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Topic: BS Never Say Die VS LZ In Through The Out Door
Posted By: Kentucky_Hawkwindage
Subject: BS Never Say Die VS LZ In Through The Out Door
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 16:02
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Well since Led Zeppelin Presence trounced Black Sabbath Technical Ecstasy in my last poll i'm interested in seeing how Never Say Die will hold up to In Through The Out Door.Again 2 albums by rock giants Black Sabbath & Led Zeppelin with mixed reviews. ------------- "Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal" Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me |
Replies:
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 16:04
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Never heard either. Not a real fan of either band though.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 16:20
| the Sabbs, all the way. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 16:29
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In Through the Out Door has some great tracks, especially Carouselambra, but it also has a couple of stinkers. I reckon in a good album overall. Never Say Die is perhaps Sabbath's most adventurous album. It does not always work but it never fails to intrigue, entertain, or rock. Sabbath it is. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 16:33
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Never Say Die! ITTOD has lost much of its luster for me. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 17:39
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I'm still very new to Never Say Die, but I do like it, actually better than any of the Dio stuff. I'm a huge Led Zeppelin nut from way way back, and it'd be hard to vote against em. I'm sick to death of Fool in the Rain, but the rest of the album is awesome. Voting Zeppelin. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 17:59
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never heard the BS album here, but its the opposite for LZ so that gets my vote, especially for In the Evening, Fool in the Rain, Carouselambra, and All My Love (my personal favorite from the album) ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 18:07
Led Zep by miles 
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Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 18:41
Exactly. I'm not crazy about the LZ album, but I absolutely can't stand Never Say Die. I like Sabbath's first 5 albums and their new one, and that's about it. Listened to plenty of the other albums and can't say I liked any of them. ------------- PROGMATIC |
Xonty wrote:Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 19:15
| Never Say Die by miles. Even if the title song is a variation of Lizzy's 'The Boys Are Back In Town' (listen to the similarity) , it's got Junior's Eyes, Johnny Blade and Air Dance - which are way better for me than Carouselambra or In The Rain........ |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 19:19
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What are Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin even doing in the progressive side of the forum to begin with? They're not prog rock. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 19:23
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In Through The Out Door, it's a very underrated LP, methinks. And pretty much prog. Never Say Die has a couple of interesting tracks though. ------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: May 10 2014 at 21:38
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I quite liked In Through the Out Door. It would have been interesting to hear more Led Zep if they had had the opportunity to record more lps using more synths. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: May 11 2014 at 00:59
| I love every inch of Led Zappelin but it's Black Sabbath for sure. |
Posted By: Kentucky_Hawkwindage
Date Posted: May 11 2014 at 05:02
According to the Prog Archives Prog Rock Guide both bands are Prog-Related.Therefore are both Bands not in the guide lines for a Prog Poll?So am i yet in trouble again on here for making a wrongful Poll or Post? Was my poll supposed to in another catagory to be progaliticaly correct? Jeez.... i feel like leaving this place(i assure you i'm not the only one that feels this way),but i'll just hang around to find out what Man With Hat is eating or drinking if nothing else.  ------------- "Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal" Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me |
Posted By: dedokras
Date Posted: May 11 2014 at 16:25
Both albums are more progressive than anything Yes, Genesis and ELP did circa 78-79... I do find Never Say Die excellent, In Through The Outdoor is brilliant though  ------------- http://mlyk.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 12 2014 at 01:16
And remember, you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave  ......
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Posted By: Kentucky_Hawkwindage
Date Posted: May 12 2014 at 04:59
Yeah Tom O your probaly correct.It would be hard to actually leave for good.Though i might get banned sooner or later.In my twisted mind i saw the late 70's BS & LZ as being more progressive.So as pointed out i was progaliticaly incorrect in where i placed my Poll.Point taken from everyone.I shall endeavor to more accurate from hence forward.I might actually just stop making polls or being an OP that way i might keep out of trouble more.I shall just post what i'm listening to or post what Star Trek episode i'm watching from now on,maybe i can stay out of trouble that way. ------------- "Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal" Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 12 2014 at 15:06
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The ability to make polls in the Proto-Prog and Prog Related lounge was disabled for some reason, but no worries, I can move this there as easy as custard pie (wrong Zep album, I know). I think that both bands were excellent additions to Prog Related, and for me they both have music that I would place under the greater progressive rock umbrella. I don't have that Black Sabbath album, so I won't vote, but I have fond memories of Zep's homage to anal sex album, and Carouselambra remains one of my favourite Led Zeppelin tracks. All those who think otherwise can bugger off. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Kentucky_Hawkwindage
Date Posted: May 12 2014 at 16:22
Hey Logan-thanks for moving it to the proper forum,so now no one should be offended.I actually looked at making the poll here but didn't see the option to make a poll at that time.I thought what the hell i'll put in the prog poll,its just a poll,probaly not interesting to anyone other than myself.Why am i even explaining myself?...I see though one needs to be very proper about the post he or she makes now.I might survive here-its in hands of the prog Gods though. I really meant no offense to anyone.I'd surely hate to miss out on what Man With Hat is up to-he's my hero.I'll shut up now..... ------------- "Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal" Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 05:44
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Neither are any good- but Zeppelin ismy choice ------------- 
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Posted By: Kirillov
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 06:00
| I've always quite liked Never Say Die. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: June 02 2014 at 06:01
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Both albums demonstrating prog rock influences though the Zeppelin one is probably more varied. Both bands feeling certain internal pressures but came up trumps before going out fighting... Wouldn't want to let over exposure to a number to influence my opinion of the piece. Bonham's work on Fool In The Rain is masterful. Jimmy's new guitar synth cutting some rarely heard ground. Vote to Led Zeppelin but both albums are just fine if probably not what metals fans would immediately expect. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 20 2014 at 01:04
| Led Zeppelin - In Through The Out Door |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 20 2014 at 06:53
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I really liked the title track (and single) from Never Say Die (I mean it got Sabs on TOTP dammit!) but erm.. that's about it, the remainder mostly sucked and sounds as heartfelt as any association where the participants have forgotten they used to gladly do this for nowt but fun. I've never really warmed to Zep apart from a few individual songs here and there but I must be the only extant carbon based life-form who has an affection for Hotdog (because it don't sound remotely like LZ, Dunno?) Didn't vote as both albums are patchier than the output of a narcoleptic quilt-maker. ------------- 
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 20 2014 at 08:30
That works for me.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: June 20 2014 at 13:04
In Through The Out Door------------- When he rides, my fears subside. For darkness turns once more to light. Through the skies, his white horse flies. To find a land beyond the night. |
Posted By: thorny
Date Posted: June 23 2014 at 01:26
| Bought both these lps when they first came out.Sabbath came first and I thought it was great lp despite the title track ripping off Thin Lizzy and Hard Road sounding like Status Quo.I thought Juniors Eyes,Johnny Blade ,Air Dance and Over to You were great.Even I thought the dissonant brass on Break out was interesting then leading into Swinging the Chain though sounding unfinished and throwaway was still a thumper.When ITTOD came out I was initially disappointed.My favorites being Carouslambra and All My Love.In the Evening sounds a mess,Fool in the Rain never liked and Hot Dog a messy knees up.But I play the album a lot now and i am a huge zep fan but i am going for the under dog (Never Say Die) on this one,but only just. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 25 2014 at 07:48
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Zep ------------- |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 03:28
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I love both bands, and both albums. The final proper studio album from LZ. And the final studio album with the original lineup of the Sabs (until last year's reunion album). I never saw why either was so maligned. ITTOD contains possibly the proggiest track LZ ever recorded (Carouselambra), and lots of experimentation. They were diversifying their sound. Speaking of experimentation, Sabbath did tons of that on Never Say Die! If they put that LP out under another band's name, it would have won plaudits. People were expecting heavy doom and gloom from Sab. Instead, they got experiments like 'A Hard Road', 'Air Dance', 'Juniors Eyes' etc. NSD is a kick ass record , in my opinion. The title track is just badass! ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 04:25
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I don't care what anyone says, Out Door is a great album, one of their best. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 04:39
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I don't know Never Say Die that well apart from the title track. I can remember someone lending it to me at school but I didn't think a lot of it. Probably the most interesting thing apart from the title track was some keyboards from Don Airey. Great keys man. In Through The Out Door is Zep's prog album. A bit ELP ish in places dare I say and the closest musically the bands ever got. Both bands of course used to record at Advision studios but on different floors. Zep had the best parties although that would be no surprise to anyone!
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 02:09
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Never Say Die is planty of studio experimentation from Iommi while ITTOD is The JPJ led Zep. Both fine albums. I think with the conservatism in mainstream rock attitudes that anything other than typical expected and comfortable (Paranoid, II) means that anything different is not good. Brave attitudes and fine music especially considering both bands had certain difficulties at the time. Lucky for Zeppelin they had JPJ. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 13:35
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I need to relisten to ITTOD....but it never struck me as being that proggy nor interesting...and most of the Zep fans I know don't really care for it that much. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 13:41
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Never Say Die. If only for "Over To You". And I love the piano playing in the background of that track.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 19:27
amen brother.  |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: November 13 2014 at 13:34
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I guess Out Door gets a lot of shyte 'cause it was such a departure upon first release. The production was more slick, the riffage not as up front, the vocals seemed processed thru a "Robert Plant machine", and the synths stood out more than Page. It was a sell out in so many ways. The late 70s were a tough time for a lot of the prog world, and Zep felt the winds of change just like the rest. But I can say the same for Going for the One, Who Are You, Love Beach, Fripp's Exposure....albums that reflect the times more than the bands' classic sounds. Not bad albums, just not really what you would expect from your favorite band. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: November 13 2014 at 22:11
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Rather thought the first album refects the times as much as ITTOD well, really didn't. Not disco, punk new wave or metal of any sort, A C and W joke number, some prog, a sophisticated blues, soytern rock and latin music and a touch of heavy rock. I think the negative view of ITTOD and Never Say Die and so many late 70s albums says more aout the audience perceptions of their own poular culture environmental change than anything. To take another example ACDC put out the same album every time nad have millins of fans - very reassuring consistency to the rock and roll rebellious crowd. Bit like Tommy Vance (RIP) saying on a doco that Def Leppard will never change (spots?) and he said it as though it were a good thing. So really it's not so much about music quality as their vhicle for a dislike of changing times - getting old inside a world where they have to now play catch up. Roughly for the same reasons modern pop is slated and vinyl is actually popular now (when every release probably should be a Blu Ray Audio or the equivalent). We're about 50 years behind our own times now. People should be well happy... living in the past. |
Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: November 14 2014 at 16:23
| Two rather meh albums overall, by these stalwarts, although each has good stuff as well. No vote. |