| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
omphaloskepsis 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6997
|
 Posted: February 05 2015 at 06:42 |
The 70's was classic for almost every type of music. Soul, Prog, Pop, Jazz, among other broad musical genres. As a teenager, I thought the tsunami of classic music would never stop. But I didn't think of the music as classic. No, I thought "Close to the Edge" was the general state of music. By the time the 80's creep up on me the music died, or at least went on life support. I realized I had been thick as brick to think the prog masterpieces would keep flowing. Wish You Were Here took on a whole new meaning for me.
|
 |
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: February 05 2015 at 06:19 |
 TeleStrat wrote:
I don't think it has to do with our age but rather how quickly things around us change.In the old days (and I mean way before the seventies) advancements in technology, and society in general occurred at a slower pace. As the world became more modern the advancements/discoveries happened at a more rapid pace. I think this causes people to feel that time is passing faster than it used to so that a period of ten years may seem to go by quicker than it did when the world moved at a much slower pace.
|
I don't believe this is true. I do not see that there has been a marked increase in technological advancement since the 1970s. What we have seen is a steady increase in application of technology, but the pace of that isn't as fast as you would assume. We are currently in a prolonged period of depressed technological advancement that has been on-going for some twenty years or more. (The only, as yet commercially unrealised, technological development in recent years that springs to mind is graphene - based upon 20th-century science it was first isolated as a practical substance in 2004).
All the tech we currently regard as commonplace is merely a development from technology that was created several decades earlier. Even the cell phones that we all take for granted are just the application of old technology.
We now have electric cars, but we had those on our streets in the 1960s (they were commonly used to deliver milk for example) - the technology of the modern electric car existed in the 1970s, it was just never applied - the electric motors are more or less the same (copper, iron, rare-earth magnets etc), we had computers, integrated circuits, micro-computers and the Li-ion batteries that power them were first invented in the 1970s. Even the liquid crystal display was developed in the 1970s (though the science of liquid crystals is even older than that).
|
|
What?
|
|
TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014
Location: Norwalk, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 9319
|
Posted: February 05 2015 at 05:47 |
I don't think it has to do with our age but rather how quickly things around us change. In the old days (and I mean way before the seventies) advancements in technology, and society in general occurred at a slower pace. As the world became more modern the advancements/discoveries happened at a more rapid pace. I think this causes people to feel that time is passing faster than it used to so that a period of ten years may seem to go by quicker than it did when the world moved at a much slower pace.
|
|
Walton Street
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872
|
Posted: February 05 2015 at 04:49 |
Dean wrote:
Age does not grant us the power to affect the space-time continuum.
Perception of the passage of time is related to memory retention. We remember significant events better than mundane ones and since those significant events are often "first time" events more of them occur when we are younger. Time flies when you're having fun, but memories of those fun times are more prominent, so while the passage of time as perceived to be short while we were enjoying those fun-times, our memories of them lingers longer. Conversely when we are bored to tears time appears to pass very slowly, but we do not retain long-term memories of every passing second so we don't remember that much of them.
/edit: The age-related effect is simply that as we grow older we slow down, so while our pace decreases it gives the illusion that the world around us is moving faster. |
which is why a 4 hour car ride with someone you fancy seems like 30 minutes whereas a 20 minute car ride with someone you can't stand seems like an eternity.
|
|
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: February 05 2015 at 03:57 |
Age does not grant us the power to affect the space-time continuum.
Perception of the passage of time is related to memory retention. We remember significant events better than mundane ones and since those significant events are often "first time" events more of them occur when we are younger. Time flies when you're having fun, but memories of those fun times are more prominent, so while the passage of time as perceived to be short while we were enjoying those fun-times, our memories of them lingers longer. Conversely when we are bored to tears time appears to pass very slowly, but we do not retain long-term memories of every passing second so we don't remember that much of them.
/edit: The age-related effect is simply that as we grow older we slow down, so while our pace decreases it gives the illusion that the world around us is moving faster.
Edited by Dean - February 05 2015 at 04:01
|
|
What?
|
|
Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
|
Posted: February 05 2015 at 03:20 |
|
Whether it's a subjective sense as we age or time really speeds up, the time period of 1970 - 1975 and (or) 1975-1980 seems to me now much longer than the period from 2010 to 2015. I don't know are other old guys share my opinion, but it seems to me that time speeds up (e.g. from February 2010 to now that four years have passed just like a blink of an eye.)
So I wonder how it is possible that these old bands passed through so much changes in e.g. the first half of 70s and that that in a half of decade that some prog band was achieved a legendary status.. Don't forget that was the ancient time without Internet.
|
|
chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20074
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 20:45 |
Dean wrote:
chopper wrote:
Dean wrote:
chopper wrote:
Dean wrote:
I have to admit that when I first visited the PA I was surprised to see Gabriel era Genesis albums so highly regarded, from my recollections of the first half of the 70s I don't think anyone in my social circle regarded them as classic albums in the same way as ELP (everything up to Brain Salad Surgery), Floyd (studio albums up to Wish You Were Here) and Yes (everything from Fragile up to Relayer). Genesis's stage act with Gabriel's costumes was probably more well-known than any of their albums at the time. I suspect that their current high-regard is retrospective, being a direct result of the later successes of post-Gabriel Genesis and the man himself. No one at the time would have thought of Selling England By The Pound as a future classic, compared to say Dark Side of The Moon.
|
I'm going to disagree with you there Dean. There was a "prog" circle at my school in the early/mid 70s and Genesis were amongst the biggies with Yes and ELP. Pink Floyd not so much but DSOTM was already a classic by then. Supper's Ready was already a classic (people were already shouting "a flower!" when I saw them in '76) and TLLDOB was well on it's way. |
Easily explained by our age difference. |
Not entirely. You said first half of the 70s. I would certainly say in 1973/74 Genesis were one of the big 3 prog bands. |
I don't believe they were, so will have to differ. (I've had this discussion before) In '73 and '74 Genesis were still playing small to medium venues while Yes, ELP and Floyd were playing stadiums and arenas. The OP cited Foxtrot, they were still on the "six bob tour" at that time, it peaked at #12 and then mingled around the lower reaches of the chart for a few weeks. Selling England was indeed a breakthrough album, but they didn't achieve stadium status until '75. Lamb was a mixed-bag success, being a double it was more expensive so didn't sell as well as Selling England, unlike Tales for example which managed to sell better than Close To The Edge despite being more expensive.
As for Floyd - every album they released went top 10 with the exception of the two compilations Relics and A Nice Pair, so Floyd were always a "biggie" and while your social circle may not have regarded them as a Prog band, mine did, but that's an entirely different round of fisticuffs and handbags at dawn.  |
Fair enough. You're right, Floyd were already a big band but they were already a band that people who didn't like prog liked (from DSOTM). For my little prog circle it was Yes, ELP and Genesis all the way. Obviously everyone else took a while to catch up with us.
|
|
HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 18:39 |
|
I didn't say it was my favorite, just said it was going to be a classic. But it just so happens it is my favorite. :)
|
|
My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
|
|
SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 18:33 |
^It least you have a favorite from SY. I can never decide. One day it's Sister, Goo the next, then Daydream Nation! Then the first EP! Crazy.
Lately it's been EVOL. 
Edited by SteveG - February 04 2015 at 18:34
|
|
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
|
|
HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 18:30 |
|
The one album in my lifetime that came out and I said to myself "this is going to be a classic album" was Daydream Nation by Sonic Youth. Turned out I was right, but it's not a prog album, so maybe this is off topic.
|
|
My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
|
|
TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014
Location: Norwalk, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 9319
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 17:50 |
Gerinski wrote:
Well I was too young at that time to have my own sound reasoning, but I surely remember that whichever home I went they would have a copy of ITCOTKC, DSOTM, Fragile, Tarkus, Tubullar Bells, Who's Next, Thick As A Brick, Deep Purple's Made In Japan, Zeppelin IV...I guess that some people back then could tell that besides being commercially successful, those albums would stand the test of time. Probably not everybody realised it but a few surely did. |
I guess you are right but I don't recall anyone at the time thinking in those terms. Between my crowd of music friends, the people I knew at the store and the countless number of times that customers would start up conversations about bands/albums/concerts I don't remember anyone talking in terms of longevity. All they seemed to care about was When is the new album coming out and when are they coming to town?
|
|
HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 17:48 |
|
I'm about Gerinsky's age. The only Classic Prog album I remember very vividly is the Lamb, but being eight years old then, who cares how I regarded it. I can attest to later years when Genesis were no longer Prog that there was a strong sense of a bygone era, and Old Genesis were thought of as masterpieces that would span time. In fact, the five piece band was not really considered the same band; they were always "Old Genesis". The early presence of tribute bands is further evidence of their high regard in the 80s. Performances from Over the Garden Wall from Toronto were well appreciated in Buffalo.
|
|
Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5160
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 16:54 |
Well I was too young at that time to have my own sound reasoning, but I surely remember that whichever home I went they would have a copy of ITCOTKC, DSOTM, Fragile, Tarkus, Tubullar Bells, Who's Next, Thick As A Brick, Deep Purple's Made In Japan, Zeppelin IV... I guess that some people back then could tell that besides being commercially successful, those albums would stand the test of time. Probably not everybody realised it but a few surely did. |
|
richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 30692
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 14:47 |
I suppose the first album I heard that I knew was a 'classic' was not even a prog album - Tubeway Army - Replicas I was a bit late to prog and knew little about it when it was still big. I even erroneously believed that ELP had released all their albums pre Works in 1973. This was because they all had that date stamp as a result of ELP shifting their catalogue onto their own label at that time. As a 15 year old in 1977 Dark Side of The Moon came to my attention only because someone told me that it had been in the charts continuously for 4 years. I thought they were talking rubbish and wondered why something that sounded so ordinary could be selling shedloads. Genesis were far too bland to be releasing anything classic while Yes were kind of just odd. I was told I had to like them because I liked ELP. Dean mentions Focus and he is right that it was only those hit singles that made them register at all. The band that did resonate very strongly with 15 year olds of the time was undoubtedly Hawkwind. In Search Of Space - yep everyone knew that one! Tull? They were the band with that bloke who stood on one foot playing a flute. Rush were at that time breaking big but they just sounded like a heavy metal band trying to be too clever. Metal didn't need to be clever I believed. Someone lent me Supertramp's Breakfast In America. I liked Logical Song but the rest at this time seemed just so samey and dull to be classic. So by 1979 Gary Numan was where it was at for me.
|
|
SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 14:11 |
|
Seriously, the first time I heard CTTE by Yes and WYWH by Floyd, I immediately felt that those were special time transcending albums. I did not have that feeling about Fragile and DSOTM, however.
|
|
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
|
|
Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6499
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 13:34 |
The designation "classic" is one that can only truly be bestowed over a span of time, even though people often use the term for something new; we may see that as a kind of prediction. But Rock has always been a type of popular music and as such, the musical generations go fast. Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull, Moody Blues and Pink Floyd were all over the airwaves at the time. No, I do not think most listeners were considering them as eventual classics that will be remembered decades in the future. At best, the bands and record companies would expect a few good years of popularity and then fade under new releases. In fact, record companies banked on that and sought to produce albums that would hit big fast, just like now. The thing that surprised many people, artists, listeners, and executives, was that much of the music proved to be longer lasting than anticipated. The advent of the compact disk facilitated this, for when they first began to dominate sales, a lot of old albums were re-released in the new format. The 20th anniversary of the summer of love, 1987, was the watershed year for this, and biz has not turned back from it yet.
|
|
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 13:05 |
chopper wrote:
Dean wrote:
chopper wrote:
Dean wrote:
I have to admit that when I first visited the PA I was surprised to see Gabriel era Genesis albums so highly regarded, from my recollections of the first half of the 70s I don't think anyone in my social circle regarded them as classic albums in the same way as ELP (everything up to Brain Salad Surgery), Floyd (studio albums up to Wish You Were Here) and Yes (everything from Fragile up to Relayer). Genesis's stage act with Gabriel's costumes was probably more well-known than any of their albums at the time. I suspect that their current high-regard is retrospective, being a direct result of the later successes of post-Gabriel Genesis and the man himself. No one at the time would have thought of Selling England By The Pound as a future classic, compared to say Dark Side of The Moon.
|
I'm going to disagree with you there Dean. There was a "prog" circle at my school in the early/mid 70s and Genesis were amongst the biggies with Yes and ELP. Pink Floyd not so much but DSOTM was already a classic by then. Supper's Ready was already a classic (people were already shouting "a flower!" when I saw them in '76) and TLLDOB was well on it's way. |
Easily explained by our age difference. |
Not entirely. You said first half of the 70s. I would certainly say in 1973/74 Genesis were one of the big 3 prog bands. |
I don't believe they were, so will have to differ. (I've had this discussion before) In '73 and '74 Genesis were still playing small to medium venues while Yes, ELP and Floyd were playing stadiums and arenas. The OP cited Foxtrot, they were still on the "six bob tour" at that time, it peaked at #12 and then mingled around the lower reaches of the chart for a few weeks. Selling England was indeed a breakthrough album, but they didn't achieve stadium status until '75. Lamb was a mixed-bag success, being a double it was more expensive so didn't sell as well as Selling England, unlike Tales for example which managed to sell better than Close To The Edge despite being more expensive.
As for Floyd - every album they released went top 10 with the exception of the two compilations Relics and A Nice Pair, so Floyd were always a "biggie" and while your social circle may not have regarded them as a Prog band, mine did, but that's an entirely different round of fisticuffs and handbags at dawn.
|
|
What?
|
|
Walton Street
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 12:22 |
Gerinski wrote:
It is in this sense that I asked if the listeners of those great albums in their time were aware that they were albums destined to become remembered for decades and hailed as masterpieces even by future generations. |
I understood .. and I still say yes ... I knew that what I was hearing was special and therefore enduring.
|
|
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
|
|
Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5160
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 12:18 |
Having said that, popularity is certainly a guide, or an ingredient. Without wanting to get into the pedantry of proggers, when you have something which combines high popularity with real substance, you can bet it may become a timeless masterpiece. All of us know of highly popular products (music, movies, books...) which we are aware they are basically successful entertainment products but recognise they don't have much deep substance beyond the casual entertainment purpose.
But when you saw something like 2001 A Space Odyssey or Taxi Driver, besides being popular you probably knew that they would stand the test of time, they were more than mere casual popular entertainment, they had substance. It is in this sense that I asked if the listeners of those great albums in their time were aware that they were albums destined to become remembered for decades and hailed as masterpieces even by future generations.
|
|
Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5160
|
Posted: February 04 2015 at 12:04 |
cstack3 wrote:
We seem to hash this subject endlessly - "Was this music popular back in the day?"
|
Mmmm, that's not quite the same I asked. I asked if the listeners back then (at least those who liked those albums of course) realised at the time that they were being eyewitnesses of the birth of albums which would be remembered for decades and considered as masterpieces by many if not most of the people who can appreciate that kind of music, even by people who were not present at the time and would only discover them decades later.
A lot of music was highly popular in its day but as quickly as it rose, as quickly it got forgotten, or at least it has not kept attracting the attention of younger generations. I don't know, albums like, say The Rolling Stones' Tattoo You or Rod Stewart's Blondes Have More Fun were extremely popular in its day but I'm not sure they are considered timeless masterpieces even by those who enjoy standard pop-rock. Surely people who lived their time will fondly remember them, but I'm not sure that they consider them masterpieces of pop-rock, and I guess that many young guys who enjoy standard pop-rock are not even aware of those albums.
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Classic masterpieces, was the public aware?
