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gdub411 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 3484
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 Posted: July 06 2005 at 22:47 |
 Geck0 wrote:
I Actually, I don't like the word "genre" all that much.
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I never liked the word vat myself.
Seriously, though, if you have trouble with putting labels on the music you like then why are you at a "progressive" rock site? Perhaps you could just find a forum called music.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 22:14 |
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I used that as an example Publius, it's just uncanny that I picked those two bands really...
I like Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull (but I have to say, Ian Anderson can
get a bit much if you listen to him too often, which is odd, as Peter
Hammill I never got bored of).
I wholeheartedly agree with you about pigeon-holing/genre-specifying.
Actually, I don't like the word "genre" all that much.
I actually respect bands who don't class themselves as prog/prog
rock. Some friends of mine are in a band called "Old School Tie"
over here in England and they are a great instrumental guitar band,
with elements of progression in their music. Influenced by Mars
Volta, At The Drive-In, Biffy Clyro and Led Zeppelin, they do not even
have a background in listening to the prog "genre", so why should
people really call them a prog rock band, when there are not really
prog at all? I hear Peter Green in there sound, but they don't
even listen to him or Fleetwood Mac. I even hear a little bit of
a similarity with Nektar and their track "Countenance", but again, they
are unaware of them. I cannot really pigeon-hole them, so I just
have to wax lyrical about them really.
Emo is the modern day prog, in the sense that nobody is quite sure what
it is! Except it contains emotional type lyrics and a whole image
to-boot.
James.
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margaret
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2005
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Points: 139
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 22:11 |
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not sure if anyone else considers it prog... I always have.
Battle of Evermore - Led Zeppelin.
probably in my top 3 LZ songs ever.
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Publius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 382
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 21:00 |
Geck0 wrote:
Most people are ignorant of progressive rock/prog rock/prog, call it what you will. There are so many sub-genres to think about of course, like Canterbury, Jazz/Fusion, Pyschedelic, Space Rock, Zeuhl, Kraut Rock...
Everyone has there own tastes within these categories (some like the majority too), so somebody who likes Pink Floyd, may really hate Jethro Tull for instance.
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Exactly! Pigeon-holing is quite easy to do because prog has become quite wide a term. But its still good to have different styles of prog, that's what keeps it prog. And I love Pink Floyd, and I HATE Jethro Tull! :)
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Publius
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Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 382
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 20:55 |
Ah, somebody sees my point, thank you.
'As somebody said in an earlier post, you can find progressive elements in most music.'
Exactly! Like you said: System Of A Down, RATM, etc, may well all incorporate progressive elements, but that doen't mean you can call them prog!
Eventually, it will get to a point where it will no longer be progressive because bands like system of a down will make abnormal things normal. That's when music evolves (progresses) and bands like The Mars Volta come about to make NEW progressive things :)
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 20:51 |
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Indeed I do, so the same applies for Gov't Mule, Derek Trucks Band,
Chris Rea, System of a Down, Rage Against The Machine, Ry Cooder and
even Iron Maiden (urgh)? Even Los Lobos..., geez...
I actually agree with you there Publius. Maybe that's a good
reason why Queen shouldn't be included then? Because they only
have Progressive elements?
So would you just count Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, Emerson Lake and Palmer and Pink Floyd as true progressive rock bands then?
Most people are ignorant of progressive rock/prog rock/prog, call it
what you will. There are so many sub-genres to think about of
course, like Canterbury, Jazz/Fusion, Pyschedelic, Space Rock, Zeuhl,
Kraut Rock...
Everyone has there own tastes within these categories (some like the
majority too), so somebody who likes Pink Floyd, may really hate Jethro
Tull for instance.
As somebody said in an earlier post, you can find progressive elements in most music.
Peter Hammill himself doesn't even class VdGG as Prog Rock and hates being pigeon-holed.
Musicians perform and write music they like and they really should not
care about labels being slapped on them. Somebody out there will
love your music, whether you're Celine Dion or Craig David, or Queen or
Rolling Stones.
James.
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Publius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 382
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 20:36 |
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OK I'm gonna sway the conversation slightly here and draw a line. Prog - and Progressive - can be 2 different things. I know its difficult to do this accurately but...group the main 'prog rock' groups together. I mean Yes, Genesis, ELP, KC, PF...all the ones we know and love. theyre progressive, yof course, but are commonly known as prog rock. prog rock and progressive end up meaning slightly different things. prog rock is the traditional, 3-5 piece bands with keyboards, an interesting gutiarist, a flamboyant singer and an epically brilliant drummer. then, progressive is a broader word. It encircles anything unusual about music in a way, and bands like Primus, Meat Loaf (Paradise By The Dashboard Light included) and even Talking Heads, XTC, Fleetwood Mac ALL incorporate 'progressive' elements, but not 'prog' elements. you see what I'm saying? :P
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 20:30 |
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As much as I hate it, Meat Loaf - _Paradise By The Dashboard Light_
seems like prog to me, as is much of the "Bat Out Of Hell" album.
Primus, any disputes?
A lot of David Bowie's stuff seems like prog to me too.
How about Talking Heads, XTC and Jimi Hendrix - _1983 A Merman I Shall Turn To Be_ and _Rainy Day, Drift Away_?
How broad do people class prog on here? I hear prog elements in Fleetwood
Mac, specifically October Jam, part 1 and part 2, The Madge Sessions
and _World In Harmony_ and even maybe _Albatross_...
Deep Purple and Black Sabbath too...
Obviously they didn't do much pure prog, that I agree with, but they stepped into mildly.
My friends always class overdrawn solos, like keyboard solos as prog,
because they're ignorant really. If that was the case, surely
E.L.O. and The Nice would be prog too, as too would be The Doors.
James.
Edited by Geck0
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milla
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 12 2005
Location: Wales
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Points: 31
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 18:35 |
Dragon Phoenix wrote:
milla wrote:
What about Uriah Heep?
do July Morning and Magicians Birthday count as prog?
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They ARE on this site...  |
 guess I should have looked to see if
they were here first - I just assumed that they wouldn't be because I
don't really consider them a prog band
ok, how about:
UFO - Love To Love
Deep Purple - Child In Time
Black Sabbath - Megalomania (and possibly The Writ)
Edited by milla
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Flyingbebert
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Joined: April 19 2005
Location: France
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 14:47 |
No problem, I have to admit my question is quite off of the topic too !
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BiGi
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2005
Location: Italy
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Points: 848
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 11:40 |
Yes...yes...I beg your pardon I went astray from the thread subject, but I just can't help but associate their music to their leader...although some Doors tracks are nice...
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A flower?
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Flyingbebert
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Joined: April 19 2005
Location: France
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 10:39 |
BiGi wrote:
Flyingbebert wrote:
Could someone explain me why The Doors are not considered as pioneers of prog ? |
I HATE Jim Morrison! 
I have no preclusion towards Ray Manzarek (outstanding keyboard player, I would say), John Densmore and Robbie Krieger, but I simply can't bear him - or maybe it's his personnage that gets on my nerves! |
Well I was asking for a general explanation, not a personnal point of view. But I understand that some people hate Jim Morrisson. Maybe you think he represents the caricature of the rock scene (sex, drugs, excess...), but I think he was a talented artist.
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Dragon Phoenix
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1475
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 09:04 |
milla wrote:
What about Uriah Heep?
do July Morning and Magicians Birthday count as prog?
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They ARE on this site...
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fractalman
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Joined: July 01 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 64
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 08:57 |
Duran Duran - The Seventh Stranger
Duran Duran - The Chauffeur
Duran Duran - Waiting For The Nightboat
Duran Duran - Most of the Medazzaland album
I know that many of you will disagree, but for a 80's synth pop band, Duran Duran definitely had some progressive elements. Had they not been marketed as a "boy band" for all of the teen girls, their 2nd and 3rd albums may have been much less commercial.
That said, I think that Medazzaland is the best album DD has ever released. Very adventurous and the most progressive album they have ever done.
Had they released Astronaut without some of the blatant pop and included some of the songs that they released as b-sides (or didn't officially release at all), it could have been a great comeback for the original 5. As it stands, it is quite disappointing. Not as bad as Asia's Silent Nation, but quite disappointing.
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BiGi
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Joined: June 01 2005
Location: Italy
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Points: 848
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 08:53 |
Flyingbebert wrote:
Could someone explain me why The Doors are not considered as pioneers of prog ? |
I HATE Jim Morrison!
I have no preclusion towards Ray Manzarek (outstanding keyboard player, I would say), John Densmore and Robbie Krieger, but I simply can't bear him - or maybe it's his personnage that gets on my nerves!
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A flower?
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Flyingbebert
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Joined: April 19 2005
Location: France
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 08:29 |
Josmatrovic wrote:
The End by The Doors
The doors could be progressive if they had try
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Could someone explain me why The Doors are not considered as pioneers of prog ? Their work is at least Art-rock, and they began in 1966 I think, so they could be considered at the same level as Procol Harum or the Moody Blues !
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Flyingbebert
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Joined: April 19 2005
Location: France
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Points: 69
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 08:24 |
trailrunner wrote:
I'd say Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen is not only progressive, but possibly THE most successful progressive song ever. I'm actually surprised that Queen isn't listed on this site. I would argue that the early Queen albums were very progressive, much ahead of their time, and deserve to be labeled “progressive” unless I have completely misunderstood the meaning of this word. They were truly inventive and created highly complex and skillfully performed music that sounded like nothing before or after. If you can list Genesis’ We Can’t Dance or Calling All Stations just because a group called Genesis with some of the same members happened to make great music 15-20 years earlier I think Queen II, Sheer Heart Attack, and A Night At The Opera should be listed as well, even though Queen (like Genesis and a bunch of other great bands form the ‘70s) later stopped being either progressive or interesting.
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Yeah I don't know why, but Queen will never be added on this site. Radiohead was added, I don't really want to know why and it doesn't matter (the main interest of this site, to me, is to discover groups that are not as known as Radiohead, or Queen), but I think there is no logic. Muse could be added too, etc...
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Semprini
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Joined: June 23 2005
Location: United States
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 19:24 |
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Definitely Fields Of The Nephilim's Elysium and Earth Inferno.
A goth edge, but definitely more prog than anything else.
There's an incredible album by the band Christian Death called
Atrocities, very prog, as well as their albums Scriptures and
Ashes, get past the name and imagery and there's some
brilliant music there.
Also The Cure's Disintegration, definitely more progressive
than any band trying to rehash 1973.
Grateful Dead's Terrapin Station, most of the Blues For Allah
album.
Spiritualized's Ladies And Gentlemen We Are Floating In
Space, Pure Phase and Le It Come Down.
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trailrunner
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 05 2005
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 18:48 |
I'd say Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen is not only progressive, but possibly THE most successful progressive song ever. I'm actually surprised that Queen isn't listed on this site. I would argue that the early Queen albums were very progressive, much ahead of their time, and deserve to be labeled “progressive” unless I have completely misunderstood the meaning of this word. They were truly inventive and created highly complex and skillfully performed music that sounded like nothing before or after. If you can list Genesis’ We Can’t Dance or Calling All Stations just because a group called Genesis with some of the same members happened to make great music 15-20 years earlier I think Queen II, Sheer Heart Attack, and A Night At The Opera should be listed as well, even though Queen (like Genesis and a bunch of other great bands form the ‘70s) later stopped being either progressive or interesting.
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brazjol
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Joined: May 11 2005
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 14:03 |
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I think "Total Eclipse of the Heart" by Bonnie Tyler leans a bit towards prog.
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Progressive songs from non-prog bands
