Giving prog metal a fair hearing..

The T wrote: Avantgardehead wrote: Once more with the "Waaaaaaaah I hate growls!", I see. Well think of it this way, it's vocal distortion. I rarely see people complain about distortion on guitars, and distorted vocals fit perfectly with metal since it's more extreme. Mikael said it best himself, "Extreme music needs more extreme vocals."   I have never agreed with you so much as with this statement.   growling is not about the singing. They're not auditioning for american idol. it's about the effect, the sound, even the idea (in death, what voice could sound more like the dark throat of hades than low-pitched growling?)

That, and I think that growls convey aggression better than singing. God, just imagine if every heavy part had the growls taken-out and they were replaced with yelling.

Norbert wrote:  Psychotic Waltz and Deadsoul Tribe don't use death growls, and if someone likes Geddy Lee, Buddy's voice on early PW albums can't be a problem.

HughesJB4 wrote: I have to agree. Imagine the parts that were written with growls in mind, and then they decided to change the vocals to clean. It just wouldn't work, because it wouldn't fit the context of the part/song. Even if someone can't listen to the vocals, it would be good for at least people to appreciate it's very much part of their style and part of what makes them the band they are.

Absolutely.

Just try switching them out. Imagine 2:35 into "Between Love and Fire" by After Forever on Invisible Circles with clean instead of growled vocals. The effect of the section comes from the juxtaposition of the two voices.

My opinion on growled vocals are the same as with all instruments. A tuba makes a poor violin, and a violin is no kind of tuba. Similarly, growled vocals do not substitute for clean, and the converse is also true. They both have their roles.

That's another thing, Mikael has a very clear death growl. I can hear every word clearly, so it's not like it's some unintelligible gurgling that's just there to sound cool. 

Blacksword, try listening to Opeth's My Arms, Your Hearse . It's my favourite, it has a beautiful flow.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ music can reflect any kind of emotion or experience. It doesn't have to be an accurate representation like a photograph. Listening to Delirium Cordia can be a painful experience, there's not much pleasant about it. But we can enjoy the experience, because we know that it's not real and we can stop it any time. It's really the same as bungee jumping, extreme roller coasters or horror movies.

Sorry for not responding earlier, I was busy.

Listening to some local commercial radios is a painful experience for me, so I don't put them on in the first place. If you find Delirium Cordia a painful experience, why do you listen to it at all? I find it a pleasant listen, sure, the topic is anything but pleasant, but once I can dismiss it as the shtick it is and  forget about it, 
there's nothing stopping me from enjoying the album.

I can't think of any music that could make me feel the way I did in some of the less fortunate moments of my
life, not even close. You hit the nail on the head when you said you can just switch unpleasant music off any
time you want. This is what makes it different from real life experience - you can't just switch an unpleasant
threatening situation off. Not to mention that listening to music can never be a threatening experience.

The closest I can think of a truly disturbing and suffocating musical experience is the way certain noise/power electronics/sludge/drone maniacs play their preferred music - LOUD. But a Beatles song would have almost the same effect
at that volume, it's not really about music.  

LinusW wrote: My musical journey has been kinda strange. I started out with a lot of speed/power metal before ending up in what was prog metal. Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Angra, Alkemyst, Manigance etc. etc. Finally I found myself so horribly fed up with the double bass onslaught that I couldn't stand music for a long time. I then turned to the roots. Purple, Whitesnake, Rainbow, Sabbath, Uriah Heep and the like. I then moved on to proto-prog bands and ended up in prog again via prog-related and proto-prog bands. So here I am. Still having massive problems with prog metal. Can only stand it for shorter periods (half an album or so), but I'd really like to get back in again. Ayreon's The Human Equation is great from time to time and Images and Words remains a favourite of the genre. Later era DT just seems dead to me. What to do?

Get away from power-prog. Try:

Dark Suns -- Existence
Riverside -- Second Life Syndrome
Pain of Salvation -- The Perfect Element pt. 1

If you're feeling more technical,

Shadow Gallery -- Room V
Dreamscape -- 5th Season

If you want to really experiment,

Orphaned Land -- Mabool (Middle-eastern influenced metal, contains death growls)
uneXpect -- In a Flesh Aquarium (avant-garde death metal -- only if you're feeling really, really brave)

Update:

I'm enjoying the Opeth album. The music is excellent, and as someone has pointed out, the growls are used fairly sparingly. It's never going to be my favourite vocal style, but I'm able to listen past it. There is some very strong music on that album; complete with great atmospheres and textures. I'm also really enjoying 'Isolate' by Circus Maximus. I much prefer the vocal style, and the music is very powerful and symphonic.

Mike, I will register on the 'Heavens Cry' website when I get home from work, and check them out too.

Blacksword, Have you given Ayreon a try yet? Truely unique and inspired music even if I don't agree with the prog metal labed for them. 

Thanks guys!

kenmartree, no I've not heard Ayreon yet, but no fear, I'll get round to it.

LinusW wrote: Added to list of interesting albums. Growls/death is not my cup of tea .

Did you listen to the sample for Orphaned Land here at PA? You may be able to tolerate the growls, and they are used sparingly. But then again, if you really want to avoid death growls, I can't hold that against you. Still, your two conditions (no power-prog and no growls/screams) preclude 90% of prog metal.

Blacksword:

I recommend being careful with Ayreon. Many people here really like them, but here's the lowdown: he's really, really cheesy. The older stuff (e.g. Into the Electric Castle) is more substantive metal with prog influences, and the recent stuff suffers from filler syndrome (especially the latest, 01011001). Different periods have similar sounds but very, very different substance. I personally enjoy Into the Electric Castle, and I despise The Human Equation, while many feel the opposite way.

Definitely, definitely, definitely try Riverside.