| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
debrewguy 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
|
 Topic: Farewell to Prog Rock
Posted: January 01 2009 at 18:59 |
|
dig your sig.
|
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
 |
el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
|
Posted: January 01 2009 at 12:39 |
 debrewguy wrote:
You know, you're right ... of to a decent start in the avant-garde / artiste scene.
I am 46, and still listen to Motorhead, and still buy most of their albums. I have listened to Beethoven since I was 15. In my 30s, it was a regular part of my nightly routine to listen to Ross Porter's After Hours (1993-2003). That was jazz radio show on CBC radio Mondays through Thursdays.
Recently, the "kids" (actually 20 -22 yr olds) have been pretty good about some real punk rock that I would enjoy. Their recommendations also include classic period stuff like the Buzzcocks and the Jam.
As far as bands "bending" to radio ... by the 80s, Yes, Tull, and the others major 70s prog giants were rich & successful enough to do as they damn well pleased. And, from all I've read, none of them put out albums that they felt forced into. There may be music or songs they regret, but then , these even have some 70s stuff carries that same opinion from them.
So hopefully, you will learn that age does not matter when listening to music. Your enjoyment of it is the only important thing.
If you no longer listen to a music from your youth, early adulthood, middle age, whatever, well ... that happens. And if you do listen to the same music you have since birth, that's o.k. too.
Musical maturity, in my opinion, is reached when you listen to something because you find something in it. Be it a desire to dance, to relax, to F**K, whatever. Enjoy it for your reasons.
|
I'm 51 and really understand the father/kids thing. Mine are 20 and 17; we trade stuff a lot. Cheers for mentioning The Jam & Buzzcocks. I'd add the Rich Kids to those two, but man cannot (in my opinion) live by prog alone.
|
|
It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
|
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
|
Posted: December 31 2008 at 20:03 |
|
You know, you're right ... of to a decent start in the avant-garde / artiste scene.
I am 46, and still listen to Motorhead, and still buy most of their albums. I have listened to Beethoven since I was 15. In my 30s, it was a regular part of my nightly routine to listen to Ross Porter's After Hours (1993-2003). That was jazz radio show on CBC radio Mondays through Thursdays.
Recently, the "kids" (actually 20 -22 yr olds) have been pretty good about some real punk rock that I would enjoy. Their recommendations also include classic period stuff like the Buzzcocks and the Jam.
As far as bands "bending" to radio ... by the 80s, Yes, Tull, and the others major 70s prog giants were rich & successful enough to do as they damn well pleased. And, from all I've read, none of them put out albums that they felt forced into. There may be music or songs they regret, but then , these even have some 70s stuff carries that same opinion from them.
So hopefully, you will learn that age does not matter when listening to music. Your enjoyment of it is the only important thing.
If you no longer listen to a music from your youth, early adulthood, middle age, whatever, well ... that happens. And if you do listen to the same music you have since birth, that's o.k. too.
Musical maturity, in my opinion, is reached when you listen to something because you find something in it. Be it a desire to dance, to relax, to F**K, whatever. Enjoy it for your reasons.
|
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18510
|
Posted: December 31 2008 at 15:16 |
Hi,
I hope that you get a chance to read this KingB ... and any of the other responses.
I, personally, always thought "prog-rock" was another word for ... manure.
I say that intentionally because of the compartmentalization of things ... I once got dumped by a girlfriend because I like prog and she liked country ... it had nothing to do with anything else ... and that is the the attitude that I dislike the most when it came to my involvement with radio and other artistic endeavours.
It didn't help that far too many groups were copies and more tribute bands than real ... well, I can't really fault them ... that's like saying no one else ever played or was inspired by something else in their life!
What was sad to me, happened in 1972 ... and is something that I think really killed prog and it's ability to stretch and bend and become bigger and more important ... in that year there were a couple of things that came out that were major ... in some ways they were a bit "self-indulgent" (as Rolling Stone dubbed many of these) ... and the rock press trashed it to smithereens ... the rock press was not interested in music ... it was interested in "songs" and "radio play".
The sadness of it all is that young composers that wanted to do something more valuable to their musical experience all of a sudden felt hurt and disappointed. And, sadly enough, many of them gave in to the critics knock.
To me, that was the day that the music became "less important" and no longer as valid as a lot of classical music ... but ... but ... by that time I had heard things that were classical ... and not "prog-rock" ... no one will ever tell me that Vangelis, Mike Oldfield, Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze are not the greatest composers of our time ... to me only Stravinsly and Bartok even come close in the 20th century ... it's just a different instrument ...
But I felt sad to see YES, Jethro Tull and so many others crumble to the press and not fight on ... but it you and all others were stuck listening to rock, and rock only, and our measure for exellence is only how much we like it and the other person's opinion is not valid ... then you can see why ... it's so hard for anyone to believe enough in their own music ... and continue.
If I name a top ten rock/prog albums of all time, "Tales of Topographic Oceans" is one of them, as is "A Passion Play" ... but you will probably never find anyone talking about those as warmly as I do ... and I can hear Jon Anderson probably say ... "bless your dear heart" ... but for all intents and purposes any discussions in this area and archive pretty much shows why ... none of these musicians will ever be able to do something as powerful as Mahler, or whomever you wish to name and show as an example. The majority of stuff listed in here is not even 5 minutes long ... and people think that discussing Metallica as prog is more important than anything else.
They have a right to their opinion. but I doubt that even those folks will be listening to Metallica when they are 55! Just so you know, at 58, I still love listening to Hawkwind ... to me still one of the best, and extremely deserving prog band that never gets a mention ... they have the most unbelievable collage and differences from one album to the next ... compare Electric Tepee to Space Ritual ... and they never even get a mention ... and some of that hard rock is not only progressive, it is mind blowing ...
There are not many composers that do "short cuts" and in this day and age of the iTunes and many other "singles" everything is a couple of minutes and just about all the conversations are about a song or two ... not an artist ... and in that vein, we will be killing the art form ...
While I liked ELP (for example) my greatest frustration in the boards in the 90's (including the folks that created this and other boards) was that everything that got reviewed had all the same instruments as ELP and King Crimson ... and that is not fair to music in general ... and there are a lot of other progressive folks out there ... that even this board is not capable of discussing!
Try these on for size:
- Egberto Gismonti - if this is called jazz naming music is really the pits! It's just music! And if you can handle it, check out the original "No Caipira" ... talk about prog afterwords will you?
- Terje Rypdal/Dave Darling - Eos - Chamber music with an electric guitar like you wish Jimi had done!
- Mike Oldfield - Amarok ... and if you can .. try to see the "Exposed" DVD ... and realize that is "classical music" for our time.
- Djam Karet - Any of the first 5 or 6 ablums
But here ... only singles get discussed. And that will not a Mahler make ... EVER!
Edited by moshkito - December 31 2008 at 15:18
|
|
Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
|
Posted: December 30 2008 at 15:59 |
progrocker2244 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I hate to be blunt (that is a lie), but you have 25 posts: do you really think your presence on this site warrants a DRAMATIC GOODBYE thread?
Although, I've mostly been listening to jazz these days. And when I do listen to prog, it's almost never "classic prog", most of which I've found very disappointing upon revisiting... :( |
Take it easy on the guy. It isn't a goodbye post, it's saying how he's currently feeling about prog.
|
I think it's great that you read that post, but not my post directly above you. Nobody reads the whole thread anymore! But maybe I just have no life. :(
|
|
if you own a sodastream i hate you
|
|
J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
|
Posted: December 30 2008 at 08:56 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
I hate to be blunt (that is a lie), but you have 25 posts: do you really think your presence on this site warrants a DRAMATIC GOODBYE thread?
Although, I've mostly been listening to jazz these days. And when I do listen to prog, it's almost never "classic prog", most of which I've found very disappointing upon revisiting... :( |
Take it easy on the guy. It isn't a goodbye post, it's saying how he's currently feeling about prog.
|
|
|
|
Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
|
Posted: December 30 2008 at 06:11 |
debrewguy wrote:
The T wrote:
^WHOSE ego Db? |
Those who feel the need to announce that they have left and why they went, including why they came back and had to tell us, after they noticed no one noticed.
|
This is what I was saying. If I misinterpreted the intent of the OP, sorry, and I wasn't trying to imply that I deserved a GOODBYE thread either. After all, I am but a lowly non-collab as well. ;-)
Jake Kobrin wrote:
Who cares? It's stupid to only listen to a genre because you have some image or something to keep up. |
Is anyone in this thread doing that? Is that what this thread is about at all?
Angelo wrote:
Mr. Plainview |
Yes, other people have started italicizing random parts of my name like Peter! Maybe I can start a trend!
p0mt3 wrote:
Prog is like the fine cuisines that we sometimes only delve into and experience for stints at a time. Everything else is like the poor-man's fine dining such as Mc Donald's and Wendy's.
Sure it's great to eat the junk food sometimes because it;s a quick fix, you don'ty have to wait for it, and it;s cheap so the conveniance is the main appeal. But after awhile of eating Pizza Hut for the upteenth time, you're gonna start craving the truly good meals again. That's when you go back into it and wondery why you could have ever left . . . until the next time, of course. |
Psh, who says I'm listening to fast food?
|
|
if you own a sodastream i hate you
|
|
stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
|
Posted: December 25 2008 at 12:42 |
I'm getting into a lot more obscure electronica and metal. Certain sites have elitists who want nothing more than the most obscure hipster garbage. Perfect for getting to know dead-end genres. 
|
|
Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292
|
Posted: December 25 2008 at 12:33 |
I'm also drifting away from prog a bit. Going back to my Hard Rock/Metal roots. I still listen to prog quite often, though. 
|
|
J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
|
Posted: December 23 2008 at 21:10 |
Jake Kobrin wrote:
Who cares? It's stupid to only listen to a genre because you have some image or something to keep up. I've been listening to all different stuff as of late. A lot of it is prog and a lot of it isn't. Honestly, I don't care.
|
Exactly. It doesn't depend on what genre, just what amount of quality is put into the music.
|
|
|
|
el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
|
Posted: December 23 2008 at 01:45 |
debrewguy wrote:
I found it strange that they hadn't sued the Cro-Mags for copyright on the name.
As for the germans, I do believe that at the time, they were Goths. SO krautrock is an offshoot of Goth music ?
|
I hope we're talking Ostrogoths and Visigoths here, and not strange black-clad beings with Frankenstein boots and Cure albums tucked under their arms...
Off to play some Pendragon; guess they were inspired by Uther, Arthur, Lancelot and their mates.
|
|
It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
|
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
|
Posted: December 22 2008 at 21:45 |
|
Having listened to Silence's 53 minute opus - . I can say that they are hard to compare to anyone as there is no instumentation, singing, percussion, nor even sound manipulation. Especially with 73 bit re-mastered CD that I have, you cannot hear even the slightest hiss.
At the moment, due to its' relaxed nature , I think it might be suitable for the canterbury team.
On the other hand, the very concept and the mastery with which it is pulled off makes me wonder if it might be more sensible to ask whether the ZART team is interested in giving a listen to it.
|
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|
J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
|
Posted: December 22 2008 at 18:28 |
Proggg wrote:
recently I haven't been listening to too much prog either... I love it but haven't really touched it. I do listen to a lot of prog metal but not the classical prog. That will change when I finally buy a Genesis album!!!
|
Holy crap!!! Does that mean you don't own any Genesis??? Shame on you.... 
|
|
|
|
DamoXt7942
Special Collaborator
Joined: October 15 2008
Location: Okayama, Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: December 22 2008 at 13:59 |
Honestly I couldn't anticipate my current favorite prog genres (non-British Euro, especially Italian prog) when I've begun listening to British prog.
Our life style or hobby, interest are always changing but I consider recurrence of those should come some time.
Possibly we can sometimes understand the good point of our previous favs by meeting lots of genres and sounds.
Hmm...anyway, I want to listen to The Beatles and The Beach Boys.  |
|
|
|
Proggg
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 19 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 40
|
Posted: December 22 2008 at 13:07 |
|
recently I haven't been listening to too much prog either... I love it but haven't really touched it. I do listen to a lot of prog metal but not the classical prog. That will change when I finally buy a Genesis album!!!
|
|
A windstorm dropped a bird from the sky
It fell to the ground and it's wings broke and died
But when the time got by, back to sky it flied cause the wings healed in time and the bird was I-Wintersun
|
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
|
Posted: December 22 2008 at 10:58 |
|
I found it strange that they hadn't sued the Cro-Mags for copyright on the name.
As for the germans, I do believe that at the time, they were Goths. SO krautrock is an offshoot of Goth music ?
|
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|
el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
|
Posted: December 22 2008 at 03:18 |
debrewguy wrote:
I'm trying silence for a while, so I can make more profound comparisons later on ... |
Yeah, good idea.
I'm currently into the neo-Neanderthal band Cro & the Magnons. I heard they had a real revolutionary effect on what had constituted the scene before; apparently they literally blew the Neanderthal bands away - over a period of many years, of course. History has it there were no collaborations between the movements at all.
My favourite Magnon stuff includes Fire, Flintaxe Revolution and Spear that Mammoth Baby, Woah Yeah.
As the Neanderthals originated in prehistoric Germany (the Canterbury of its day), might I suggest that ALL PROG must surely stem from Krautrock?
|
|
It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
|
|
Avantgardehead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
|
Posted: December 21 2008 at 23:10 |
Jake Kobrin wrote:
Who cares? It's stupid to only listen to a genre because you have some image or something to keep up. I've been listening to all different stuff as of late. A lot of it is prog and a lot of it isn't. Honestly, I don't care.
|
Same here, I listen to what I like be it prog, indie, post-rock, psychedelic pop, new age, shoegaze, post-metal, or jazz.
|
|
http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
|
|
Jake Kobrin
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 20 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1303
|
Posted: December 21 2008 at 22:58 |
|
Who cares? It's stupid to only listen to a genre because you have some image or something to keep up. I've been listening to all different stuff as of late. A lot of it is prog and a lot of it isn't. Honestly, I don't care.
|
|
|
|
The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
|
Posted: December 21 2008 at 19:23 |
|
^wow dude! You're from 2004!!!! That's shocking and incredible, and you were lucky to get a album name which wasn't used, yet.
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Farewell to Prog Rock
