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Ivan_Melgar_M 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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 Posted: May 05 2009 at 10:15 |
BTW: I'm a fan of BSS but mainly Trilogy, I believe they are top 20 more than just top 100, biut I don't like to see that a band has entered to the charts due to a thread complaining, it may look as manipulation, I would like to see not only how ELP 1970 has evolved, but also how the closest competitors have in the last few days, in order to avoid manipulation.
It's very silly to be so worried about a bloody chart that means nothing, and even childish to manipulate ratings, hope it hasn't hapened,
I would love Trilogy if it's in place 1 or place 500, I don't give a damn about charts.
Iván
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 09:49 |
 Trouserpress wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
[ they dared to play pictures COMPLETE in front of a group of kids who probably never heard Mussorgsky before |
Sorry to be pedantic but this statement isn't true at all. ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition" bypasses several movements of Mussorgsky's original suite (including several of my favourites - such as Bydlo, Ballet of the Unhatched Chicks, Market of Limoges, Catacombs etc. etc.) That's hardly a complete rendition, is it? |
Yes I know that, if you read the poll about classical music tastes, i'm crazy about the Russian nationalist Movement since I'm 15, and very familiar with Mussorgsky, Cui, Borodin, Rimsky Korsakov and Balakirev mainly.
I referred to ELP's whole and complete version of Pictures at an Exhibition, not Mussorgsky's.
Cheers
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 06 2009 at 20:47
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88melter
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 30 2008
Location: Madison WI
Status: Offline
Points: 94
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 08:25 |
Were these the choices of readers, or some staffers? Brain Salad Surgery, or the 1st self-titled ELP, or Tarkus might make worthy candidates. But exclusion from that list does not make sense, unless the people who made the choices are under 30 years of age.
88melter, who is over 30...
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88melter
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Losendos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 571
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:51 |
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I've always been ambivalent about ELP. I wouldn't have any problems with ELP , Tarkus , Trology or BSS being in the top 100 . They were great pioneers and their contribution should not be ignored . But at the same time I was badly hurt when prog was taken out of the airwaves in the late 70s and ELP were one of the bands largely responsible for the perception of prog bands having their heads up their asses .It took Mike Oldfield , Alan Parsons and Genesis to try and rebuild the image
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How wonderful to be so profound
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:15 |
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Now, to campaign for ELP to be taken out of the site entirely. Call it diplomatic management. I mean, ELP fans are very cocky and bloated to begin with, what do you think will happen when these whack jobs get ELP in the top 10? You people can't possibly allow such to happen. The White House would be burned to the ground by Tarkus T-shirt wearing rebels! They'd change the bill of rights. "All men are created equally inferior to Greg Lake" The economy would crash even more, and the sun would explode.
Let us rise up to strike down this plague! Rally the troops, and build a BSS bonfire! Down with ELP!
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:01 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
I gave that album a five star rating last week...
Now let the campaign for ELP in the Top 10 begin |
Let's not go over-board. 
But then again, they have written material that is quintessential classic Prog rock, as in must have for any Prog connoisseur. |
I would agree totally. The rankings themselves don't bother me all too much since the majority of four star albums are all worthy of recognition. But its good to see ELP getting some recognition
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 19:54 |
mr.cub wrote:
I gave that album a five star rating last week...
Now let the campaign for ELP in the Top 10 begin |
Let's not go over-board.
But then again, they have written material that is quintessential classic Prog rock, as in must have for any Prog connoisseur.
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 19:50 |
Hmm...I gave that album a five star rating last week...
Now....let the campaign for ELP in the Top 10 begin. I'm sure the PAC's and 527 groups are already lined out through the doors at PA headquarters
Edited by mr.cub - May 04 2009 at 19:53
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 19:46 |
crimson87 wrote:
4/5/2009
ELP IS IN THE TOP 100.
REAL PROG HAS WON  |
AMEN!
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 16:19 |
4/5/2009
ELP IS IN THE TOP 100.
REAL PROG HAS WON
Edited by crimson87 - May 04 2009 at 16:22
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cesar polo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 23 2007
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 146
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 16:15 |
Wanorak wrote:
I totally agree:) Brain Salad Surgery was way ahead of it's time and deserves to be in the top 10; nevermind Tarkus, ELP and Trilogy. Enough of the prog-metal already and give ELP their due!!! |
I completely agree
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 09:26 |
Oh.. and hello Ivan! 
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THIS IS ELP
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 09:15 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Seriously? While I question that ELP's music is so esoteric that it requires years of listening, I am genuinely baffled that someone could listen to any music that many times. |
So how old are you? Why would that baffle you? When you're a musicolic, as you age, music tends to weave the fabric of your life. Its your internal soundtrack. I still listen to mostly 70s music because to me, it grounds me and reminds me where I came from. Its a part of me. May sound cheesey, but so true.
I will listen to current stuff when I feel the need to grow. But it, in no way, will ever replace whats come before. And I don't feel the need to call it prog either.
Henry Plainview wrote:
I think it's fair to say that if you don't like it after a dozen listens, you're probably not ever going to like it, unless you revisit it years later and your tastes have changed significantly in the interim. Why do you disagree? I would have almost any album almost completely memorized by that many listens.
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I have most albums I like memorized after 10 or so plays. But I don't toss it away afterwards. Not even stuff thats not my favorite. Actually I don't even toss things I don't like. It may grow on me later. Sort of like Gentle Giant. I wasn't fond of them in the 70s, but I so appreciate them now. Thank God, I didn't toss those vinyls...
Henry Plainview wrote:
What is the difference between "really prog" and "watered down prog", and why is the distinction important? |
To give a bible analogy (sorry, Tony )... supposedly all humans are children of Adam and Eve. But after many generations, most of us are no longer middle eastern, jewish, hebrew, etc.... Just because new music might have been influenced by prog of the past... does not make them related. I just find it useless to keep labeling music progressive... just because you'd like to see it mentioned on this website.
Henry Plainview wrote:
That is true, a lot of us have been listening to prog long enough that we've more or less moved on from classic prog--you can only listen to those albums so many times, you know. |
Evidently not!
Edited by threefates - May 04 2009 at 09:18
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THIS IS ELP
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 08:49 |
sleeper wrote:
I can form a decent jusgement of an album after a few listens, though of course discovering the detail work where the genious of many bands comes through takes many more listens. If its going to take 30 years of listening to an album once a week to come to love it then I dont think its going to be worth the effort to be honest, its sounds too much like hard work rather than listening enjoyment. |
Now who needs to grow up? I didn't listen to BSS for 30 years to learn to love it... I listened because I loved it from the first moment I heard it. If listening to any music is hard work for you, then maybe you just don't have an understanding of it.
sleeper wrote:
Does being born in the mid-eighties mean I'm not capable of deciding whats good or not for myself? If thats the case then I think we've just found proof that wisdom most certainly doesnt come with age. If you think that ELP deserve 4 albums in the all time top 10 of prog then fine, thats your choice and your free to make it, but if you think the rest of us need to follow suit then yes, you really do need to grow up.
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I'm sure even tho you were only born in the mid-eighties, you're probably capable of deciding whats good for you. However, your baseline... what you've been raised on... your radio at the time... gives you a whole different starting point. And what you consider to be progressive music... is not really progressive music at all. So even though you are capable of deciding your own music, your starting point is most likely flawed.
sleeper wrote:
There are some rally talented bands out there, your right, and they cover a massive span of styles and genres to the point that I think the 2000's have been the best decade for prog since the 70's. |
This is what I mean. Your idea of progressive music is flawed. There's not that many talented prog bands out there right now. I just came back from a weekend of current and past prog... Rosfest. The best band of the weekend was the 70s band "Barclay James Harvest". Wow... I can't believe someone who looks like my grandfather could play a guitar like that... incredible. And they sounded just as fresh as they did in the 70s. What a great show!!
However, there were a few new bands that were great there... but not all of them were really prog. I loved the band Frost. Their keyboardist, Jem Godfrey, is a very talented techie keyboardist.. and they are a lot of fun to watch. Another band you'd probably love is from France - Lazuli. Great band, even if they all look like they came from a sci-fi movie and its really not prog... but hey I bought their cd. Also all the Yesfans seemed to like the Swedish band, Moon Safari. They were ok, but they basically put me to sleep.
sleeper wrote:
I'd kill to get a chance to go to NEARfest, Rosfest or 3Rivers Prog, but being a student on the other side of the atlantic makes that impossible, instead I'll have to make do with Summers End where Huw and Steve are doing an amazing job of putting on the UK's only prog rock festivel, but the chances of them securing the likes of Le Orme, Banco, PFM, Magma, Echolyn and the majority of the bands that turn up in the states is non existent.
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Thats too bad. Nearfest has VDGG, Gong, Steve Hillage Band, and PFM this year. Maybe I'll even find a new band I like. I've heard a bit of Beardfish, but I generally like bands more after i see them live. I think its funny that Nearfest lists their style as Symph/Zappa. I didn't realize that Zappa had his own style! My favorite Nearfest after 10 years was 2006... with the Keith Emerson Band. Tarkus still rocks!!!
Edited by threefates - May 04 2009 at 08:58
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THIS IS ELP
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SgtPepper67
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2007
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 530
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Posted: May 03 2009 at 18:01 |
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I disagree about Lake being a mediocre singer, he has an amazing voice, plus I think he was the one who add the emotional impact to their music, although like crimson 87 said, many people find his contribution to the band too cheesy.
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In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made...
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inrainbows
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 20 2008
Location: on a rainbow
Status: Offline
Points: 489
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Posted: May 03 2009 at 17:43 |
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BSS surely deserves a place in top 100 albums, but the voting is free and everyone put his favs which means that they just consider another 100 albums better than BSS. So what's the point if BSS does't reach top 100?
It still deserves it
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: May 03 2009 at 16:29 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
[ they dared to play pictures COMPLETE in front of a group of kids who probably never heard Mussorgsky before |
Sorry to be pedantic but this statement isn't true at all. ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition" bypasses several movements of Mussorgsky's original suite (including several of my favourites - such as Bydlo, Ballet of the Unhatched Chicks, Market of Limoges, Catacombs etc. etc.) That's hardly a complete rendition, is it?
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: May 03 2009 at 16:03 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Hi Threefatess, glad to see you again here.
I agree with you in part, I understand Sleeper doesn't like BSS (even when i love it), but the "I don't like it so it's not transcendental" argument, is a bit arrogant, our personal tastes are not a good reference to say if an album is a must or not
Personal tastes are the only refference that any of us really have to decide what is a must have album, though historical importance is a big decider on what should be at least heard IMO.
I don't like Lark's Tongues in Aspic at all (Heard it at least countless times), but to use my taste as a parameter to say is an album is trancendental or not, is absurd, the album is horrendous FOR ME, but I can't deny that the touch of a genius is there.
I hate it, but Lark's is a must have for any person who wants to have a good collection, the same goes for Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery.
This one definitely comes down to personal preferance, as things stand the total lack of ELP on my shelves certainly dosent hurt it.
BTW: Sleeper, bnever get riod of your classic albums, you may regret it some day, that's a thing I never do, I even have the copy of Invisible Touch a girlfriend gave me as a present, and I hate iot with all my guts.
I still have it to some degree, stored as an MP3 on my external hard drive so that if I ever feel the need to listen to it again, maybe to see if my opinions on it have changed, I can and then buy the album on CD.
I used to have Peter Gabriels Secret World Live album on my old computer (borrowed from a friend) but the hard drive crashed, loosing that album was a big regret for me so I keep all music I get backed up on a hard drive, whether I like it or not, just in case....
Honestly I don't believe 4 albums for the top 100, but I do believe Trilogy and BSS deserve a spot, even when I rated Pictures with 5 stars, i did it because the merit of that album is that they dared to play pictures COMPLETE in front of a group of kids who probably never heard Mussorgsky before, and have success, that's having balls.
But Trillogy and BSS IMO deserve a spot.
Cheers again 3fates
Iván
Agree with them deserving a spot in the top 100, there too important not to.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: May 03 2009 at 15:53 |
threefates wrote:
sleeper wrote:
I strongly disagree with BSS being a must have manly because I had it, listened to it about a dozen times over several months and got rid of it because I really dont like it, and if the majority dont like it then it really cant be a must have, cant it? (I dont think thats true, its probably more like half and half.)
I agree with you on the Santana bit, ELP do deserve at least one album in the top 100, but those that are saying "shame on you" for not rating their albums highly enough to get into the top 10 need to grow up.
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A couple of months?? You gave it a lot of time, huh!! I've listened to it atleast once a week for the last 30 some years... and I love it., so I guess you have some catching up to do.
I agree with the guy that said that ELP deserves 4 albums in the top 10. And I don't think I need to grow up to say that. Evidently since I was around to see ELP live in the mid-70s, means I'm evidently quite grown up already. It just seems to me that quite a lot of the reviewers here are young... and weren't around in the 70s when prog was... "really prog"... and your reviews of today's watered down prog... or whatever you're calling it these days... shouldn't be the meter for rating top prog records.
It doesn't really matter however, because most people in the prog industry and those of us olders who put together the prog festivals these days, know that there are some actual real up and coming prog bands out there, and we can ever so often get to see the prog masters from the past. I have tickets to 3 or 4 of Keith Emerson's upcoming shows.
So if you really want to experience prog... head to Nearfest, Rosfest... or even that 3 Rivers prog festival this year.
BTW... the Santana thing is just a shame! |
I can form a decent jusgement of an album after a few listens, though of course discovering the detail work where the genious of many bands comes through takes many more listens. If its going to take 30 years of listening to an album once a week to come to love it then I dont think its going to be worth the effort to be honest, its sounds too much like hard work rather than listening enjoyment. Does being born in the mid-eighties mean I'm not capable of deciding whats good or not for myself? If thats the case then I think we've just found proof that wisdom most certainly doesnt come with age. If you think that ELP deserve 4 albums in the all time top 10 of prog then fine, thats your choice and your free to make it, but if you think the rest of us need to follow suit then yes, you really do need to grow up. There are some rally talented bands out there, your right, and they cover a massive span of styles and genres to the point that I think the 2000's have been the best decade for prog since the 70's. I'd kill to get a chance to go to NEARfest, Rosfest or 3Rivers Prog, but being a student on the other side of the atlantic makes that impossible, instead I'll have to make do with Summers End where Huw and Steve are doing an amazing job of putting on the UK's only prog rock festivel, but the chances of them securing the likes of Le Orme, Banco, PFM, Magma, Echolyn and the majority of the bands that turn up in the states is non existent.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 03 2009 at 11:16 |
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I am a big fan of the song Black Moon.
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ELP missing from PA Top 100 Choices
