| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
threefates 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
|
 Posted: May 04 2009 at 08:49 |
 sleeper wrote:
I can form a decent jusgement of an album after a few listens, though of course discovering the detail work where the genious of many bands comes through takes many more listens. If its going to take 30 years of listening to an album once a week to come to love it then I dont think its going to be worth the effort to be honest, its sounds too much like hard work rather than listening enjoyment. |
 Now who needs to grow up? I didn't listen to BSS for 30 years to learn to love it... I listened because I loved it from the first moment I heard it. If listening to any music is hard work for you, then maybe you just don't have an understanding of it.
sleeper wrote:
Does being born in the mid-eighties mean I'm not capable of deciding whats good or not for myself? If thats the case then I think we've just found proof that wisdom most certainly doesnt come with age. If you think that ELP deserve 4 albums in the all time top 10 of prog then fine, thats your choice and your free to make it, but if you think the rest of us need to follow suit then yes, you really do need to grow up.
|
I'm sure even tho you were only born in the mid-eighties, you're probably capable of deciding whats good for you. However, your baseline... what you've been raised on... your radio at the time... gives you a whole different starting point. And what you consider to be progressive music... is not really progressive music at all. So even though you are capable of deciding your own music, your starting point is most likely flawed. 
sleeper wrote:
There are some rally talented bands out there, your right, and they cover a massive span of styles and genres to the point that I think the 2000's have been the best decade for prog since the 70's. |
This is what I mean. Your idea of progressive music is flawed. There's not that many talented prog bands out there right now. I just came back from a weekend of current and past prog... Rosfest. The best band of the weekend was the 70s band "Barclay James Harvest". Wow... I can't believe someone who looks like my grandfather could play a guitar like that... incredible. And they sounded just as fresh as they did in the 70s. What a great show!!
However, there were a few new bands that were great there... but not all of them were really prog. I loved the band Frost. Their keyboardist, Jem Godfrey, is a very talented techie keyboardist.. and they are a lot of fun to watch. Another band you'd probably love is from France - Lazuli. Great band, even if they all look like they came from a sci-fi movie and its really not prog... but hey I bought their cd. Also all the Yesfans seemed to like the Swedish band, Moon Safari. They were ok, but they basically put me to sleep.
sleeper wrote:
I'd kill to get a chance to go to NEARfest, Rosfest or 3Rivers Prog, but being a student on the other side of the atlantic makes that impossible, instead I'll have to make do with Summers End where Huw and Steve are doing an amazing job of putting on the UK's only prog rock festivel, but the chances of them securing the likes of Le Orme, Banco, PFM, Magma, Echolyn and the majority of the bands that turn up in the states is non existent.
|
Thats too bad. Nearfest has VDGG, Gong, Steve Hillage Band, and PFM this year. Maybe I'll even find a new band I like. I've heard a bit of Beardfish, but I generally like bands more after i see them live. I think its funny that Nearfest lists their style as Symph/Zappa. I didn't realize that Zappa had his own style! My favorite Nearfest after 10 years was 2006... with the Keith Emerson Band. Tarkus still rocks!!!
Edited by threefates - May 04 2009 at 08:58
|
THIS IS ELP
|
 |
threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 09:15 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Seriously? While I question that ELP's music is so esoteric that it requires years of listening, I am genuinely baffled that someone could listen to any music that many times. |
So how old are you?  Why would that baffle you? When you're a musicolic, as you age, music tends to weave the fabric of your life. Its your internal soundtrack. I still listen to mostly 70s music because to me, it grounds me and reminds me where I came from. Its a part of me. May sound cheesey, but so true.
I will listen to current stuff when I feel the need to grow. But it, in no way, will ever replace whats come before. And I don't feel the need to call it prog either.
Henry Plainview wrote:
I think it's fair to say that if you don't like it after a dozen listens, you're probably not ever going to like it, unless you revisit it years later and your tastes have changed significantly in the interim. Why do you disagree? I would have almost any album almost completely memorized by that many listens.
|
I have most albums I like memorized after 10 or so plays. But I don't toss it away afterwards. Not even stuff thats not my favorite. Actually I don't even toss things I don't like. It may grow on me later. Sort of like Gentle Giant. I wasn't fond of them in the 70s, but I so appreciate them now. Thank God, I didn't toss those vinyls...
Henry Plainview wrote:
What is the difference between "really prog" and "watered down prog", and why is the distinction important? |
To give a bible analogy (sorry, Tony )... supposedly all humans are children of Adam and Eve. But after many generations, most of us are no longer middle eastern, jewish, hebrew, etc.... Just because new music might have been influenced by prog of the past... does not make them related. I just find it useless to keep labeling music progressive... just because you'd like to see it mentioned on this website.
Henry Plainview wrote:
That is true, a lot of us have been listening to prog long enough that we've more or less moved on from classic prog--you can only listen to those albums so many times, you know. |
Evidently not!
Edited by threefates - May 04 2009 at 09:18
|
THIS IS ELP
|
|
threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 09:26 |
Oh.. and hello Ivan!
|
THIS IS ELP
|
|
cesar polo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 23 2007
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 146
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 16:15 |
Wanorak wrote:
I totally agree:) Brain Salad Surgery was way ahead of it's time and deserves to be in the top 10; nevermind Tarkus, ELP and Trilogy. Enough of the prog-metal already and give ELP their due!!! |
I completely agree
|
|
crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 16:19 |
4/5/2009
ELP IS IN THE TOP 100.
REAL PROG HAS WON 
Edited by crimson87 - May 04 2009 at 16:22
|
|
StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 19:46 |
crimson87 wrote:
4/5/2009
ELP IS IN THE TOP 100.
REAL PROG HAS WON |
AMEN!
|
|
|
|
mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 19:50 |
Hmm...I gave that album a five star rating last week...
Now....let the campaign for ELP in the Top 10 begin. I'm sure the PAC's and 527 groups are already lined out through the doors at PA headquarters
Edited by mr.cub - May 04 2009 at 19:53
|
|
|
|
StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 19:54 |
mr.cub wrote:
I gave that album a five star rating last week...
Now let the campaign for ELP in the Top 10 begin |
Let's not go over-board.
But then again, they have written material that is quintessential classic Prog rock, as in must have for any Prog connoisseur.
|
|
|
|
mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:01 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
I gave that album a five star rating last week...
Now let the campaign for ELP in the Top 10 begin |
Let's not go over-board.
But then again, they have written material that is quintessential classic Prog rock, as in must have for any Prog connoisseur. |
I would agree totally. The rankings themselves don't bother me all too much since the majority of four star albums are all worthy of recognition. But its good to see ELP getting some recognition
|
|
|
|
Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:15 |
|
Now, to campaign for ELP to be taken out of the site entirely. Call it diplomatic management. I mean, ELP fans are very cocky and bloated to begin with, what do you think will happen when these whack jobs get ELP in the top 10? You people can't possibly allow such to happen. The White House would be burned to the ground by Tarkus T-shirt wearing rebels! They'd change the bill of rights. "All men are created equally inferior to Greg Lake" The economy would crash even more, and the sun would explode.
Let us rise up to strike down this plague! Rally the troops, and build a BSS bonfire! Down with ELP!
|
|
Losendos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 571
|
Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:51 |
|
I've always been ambivalent about ELP. I wouldn't have any problems with ELP , Tarkus , Trology or BSS being in the top 100 . They were great pioneers and their contribution should not be ignored . But at the same time I was badly hurt when prog was taken out of the airwaves in the late 70s and ELP were one of the bands largely responsible for the perception of prog bands having their heads up their asses .It took Mike Oldfield , Alan Parsons and Genesis to try and rebuild the image
|
|
How wonderful to be so profound
|
|
88melter
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 30 2008
Location: Madison WI
Status: Offline
Points: 94
|
Posted: May 05 2009 at 08:25 |
Were these the choices of readers, or some staffers? Brain Salad Surgery, or the 1st self-titled ELP, or Tarkus might make worthy candidates. But exclusion from that list does not make sense, unless the people who made the choices are under 30 years of age.
88melter, who is over 30...
|
|
88melter
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
|
Posted: May 05 2009 at 09:49 |
Trouserpress wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
[ they dared to play pictures COMPLETE in front of a group of kids who probably never heard Mussorgsky before |
Sorry to be pedantic but this statement isn't true at all. ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition" bypasses several movements of Mussorgsky's original suite (including several of my favourites - such as Bydlo, Ballet of the Unhatched Chicks, Market of Limoges, Catacombs etc. etc.) That's hardly a complete rendition, is it? |
Yes I know that, if you read the poll about classical music tastes, i'm crazy about the Russian nationalist Movement since I'm 15, and very familiar with Mussorgsky, Cui, Borodin, Rimsky Korsakov and Balakirev mainly.
I referred to ELP's whole and complete version of Pictures at an Exhibition, not Mussorgsky's.
Cheers
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 06 2009 at 20:47
|
|
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
|
Posted: May 05 2009 at 10:15 |
BTW: I'm a fan of BSS but mainly Trilogy, I believe they are top 20 more than just top 100, biut I don't like to see that a band has entered to the charts due to a thread complaining, it may look as manipulation, I would like to see not only how ELP 1970 has evolved, but also how the closest competitors have in the last few days, in order to avoid manipulation.
It's very silly to be so worried about a bloody chart that means nothing, and even childish to manipulate ratings, hope it hasn't hapened,
I would love Trilogy if it's in place 1 or place 500, I don't give a damn about charts.
Iván
|
|
|
|
Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
|
Posted: May 05 2009 at 10:16 |
Having played Pictures at an Exhibition in a concert band an exhausting number of times, ELP's version is pretty pale.
It was ambitious though. No one ever said ELP weren't ambitious.
|
|
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
|
|
Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
|
Posted: May 05 2009 at 10:20 |
crimson87 wrote:
4/5/2009
BUBU IS OUT OF THE TOP 100.
REAL PROG HAS LOST  |
Fixed.
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
|
Posted: May 05 2009 at 10:55 |
Losendos wrote:
I've always been ambivalent about ELP. I wouldn't have any problems with ELP , Tarkus , Trology or BSS being in the top 100 . They were great pioneers and their contribution should not be ignored . But at the same time I was badly hurt when prog was taken out of the airwaves in the late 70s and ELP were one of the bands largely responsible for the perception of prog bands having their heads up their asses .It took Mike Oldfield , Alan Parsons and Genesis to try and rebuild the image |
Genesis rebuild the image of Prog after the late 70's?
Not even a hardcore fan like me would buy this.
After the 70's Genesis not only diidn't rebuilt Propg but played anything except Prog, while a member kept giving interviews about what kind of crap Progressive Rock was......80's Genesis was one of the bands who tried to destroy Prog.
Alan Parsons reached their peak in the debut IMO, still two excellent albums until 1978, but EVE, is one of the worst albums ever released, if it wasn't for ·"Damned if I Do", the album would be worth 0 stars.the rest of the albums were anything but Prog, good production, clear sound, some good, others bad, but not Prog
Mike Oldfield also reached his peak with his debut in 1971 with Tubular Bells, other good albums like Omadawn, but if you say ELP had their heads in their vbutts, what would you think of Amarok (1990) an album with one 60 minutes track and like 5 versions of Tubular bells to try to keep audience?
- Orchestal Tubular Bells (75)
- Tubular Bels II (1992)
- Tubular Bells III (1998)
- The Milleniumk Bell (1999)
- The Best of Tubular Bells (2001)
- Tubular Bells 2003
- The Complete Tubular Bells (2003)
PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like the muusic of the second two, but none of them rebuilt the image of Prog.
Iván
|
|
|
|
A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
|
Posted: May 05 2009 at 15:26 |
I have been listening to ELP alot lately, and I do agree that they should be at least top 100. One of the major turn offs is there sense of humor, it's like Pink Floyd playing Arnold Layne half way through Echoes. 
|
|
sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
|
Posted: May 05 2009 at 18:24 |
threefates wrote:
Now who needs to grow up? I didn't listen to BSS for 30 years to learn to love it... I listened because I loved it from the first moment I heard it. If listening to any music is hard work for you, then maybe you just don't have an understanding of it. |
Oh, the "you dont like it so you dont understand it" rubbish. I understand it perfectly, still doesnt mean I like it though.
I'm sure even tho you were only born in the mid-eighties, you're probably capable of deciding whats good for you. However, your baseline... what you've been raised on... your radio at the time... gives you a whole different starting point. And what you consider to be progressive music... is not really progressive music at all. So even though you are capable of deciding your own music, your starting point is most likely flawed. |
I dont think there's ever been a period in my life where the radio has ever figured in my musical education. Except for a period of about a year and half where I listeneed to a fair bit of indie (along with Genesis and Floyd) Prog has always been the backbone of my listening experience. Arrogant today arent we?
This is what I mean. Your idea of progressive music is flawed. There's not that many talented prog bands out there right now. I just came back from a weekend of current and past prog... Rosfest. The best band of the weekend was the 70s band "Barclay James Harvest". Wow... I can't believe someone who looks like my grandfather could play a guitar like that... incredible. And they sounded just as fresh as they did in the 70s. What a great show!!
However, there were a few new bands that were great there... but not all of them were really prog. I loved the band Frost. Their keyboardist, Jem Godfrey, is a very talented techie keyboardist.. and they are a lot of fun to watch. Another band you'd probably love is from France - Lazuli. Great band, even if they all look like they came from a sci-fi movie and its really not prog... but hey I bought their cd. Also all the Yesfans seemed to like the Swedish band, Moon Safari. They were ok, but they basically put me to sleep.
|
I'd say it was your idea of prog that was flawed and outmoded, but since you've remained rather coy on why the modern bands are "watered down prog" I cant really start to pick holes in it yet. Oh, and your completely and utterly wrong about the lack of good prog bands around today. I've seen Frost*, there an OK band but nothing special, just following the old conventions of Yes and co. I probably would love Lazuli, the descriptions I've read make me quite interested but I've yet to find one of their albums for a reasonable price. Moon Safari are another band I need to check out, but their albums are very difficult to find.
|
Thats too bad. Nearfest has VDGG, Gong, Steve Hillage Band, and PFM this year. Maybe I'll even find a new band I like. I've heard a bit of Beardfish, but I generally like bands more after i see them live. I think its funny that Nearfest lists their style as Symph/Zappa. I didn't realize that Zappa had his own style! My favorite Nearfest after 10 years was 2006... with the Keith Emerson Band. Tarkus still rocks!!! |
Sounds like a good line up. Beardfish bored me silly on CD, though are a fair bit better on stage. The Zappa comment must be because they try to put a fair buit of humour into their music, and cringeworthy attempts they are IMO. WTF happened to the page? 
Edited by sleeper - May 05 2009 at 18:26
|
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
|
|
threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
|
Posted: May 06 2009 at 07:45 |
Negoba wrote:
Having played Pictures at an Exhibition in a concert band an exhausting number of times, ELP's version is pretty pale.
It was ambitious though. No one ever said ELP weren't ambitious. |
Being in a concert band in my early years... I doubt this is true. And since I'm pretty sure you didn't have a singer.. much less one with Greg's voice... I'm pretty sure thats not true. I'm also sure that your version didn't include "The Sage"... which is just so lovely... Of course, this is just MY opinion.
|
THIS IS ELP
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
ELP missing from PA Top 100 Choices
