Most Pretentious Moments In Prog

Phideaux wrote: You call it "filler", I call it a rare opportunity to see someone's more "raw" creative ideas.

That's what bonus tracks are for. Keep the album as hard-hitting and concise as possible as to not dilute the potency of the work.

Tubular Bells Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jake Kobrin wrote: Tarquin Underspoon wrote: The real answer here is Thick as a Brick.   I find it completely hilarious that, after 40-odd years, we are STILL being had by Ian Anderson's overtly pretentious send-up of a genre. It's in our top 10, for crying out loud. Then again, it really is awfully good...   ....And this, my friends, is what we call "irony". Hahaha... It's a GREAT album, but it's true that it was actually Anderson poking fun at the genre and trying to be as overblown and pretentious as possible! It was intended to be a joke!

Tarquin Underspoon wrote: The real answer here is Thick as a Brick.   I find it completely hilarious that, after 40-odd years, we are STILL being had by Ian Anderson's overtly pretentious send-up of a genre. It's in our top 10, for crying out loud. Then again, it really is awfully good...   ....And this, my friends, is what we call "irony".

Those who accused prog rockers of pretention were doing so for divisive political reasons. It was just an insult out of mean spirited-ness. 

InClouds wrote: topographicbroadways wrote: Adams Bolero wrote: Pretentiousness doesn't mean bad. The fact that TFTO is based on the works of Paramahansa Yogananda is one of the reasons I love prog; it is a genre of music that is unafraid to experiment and try new things even if it they risk ridicule for doing it. being pretentious is what prog is all about but this thread is about when it was taken too far and i don't think tales was one of them Pretentious is defined as: having or creating a deceptive outer appearance of great worth; ostentatious.  It is something that has the appearance of worth, without possessing actual worth; it's a derogatory term.   So wouldn't it be more accurate to say that prog is ambitious, rather than pretentious?  Just a thought.

I agree completely and I think lazland also addressed it as did I.  I think pretentious is being interpreted here or these days in general as taking oneself too seriously.  But what is too seriously?  Is the listener not getting ahead of himself in deciding when an artist is taking himself too seriously?  Pretentious just seems to be shorthand for long length of track and verbose lyrics.That's just ambition and for God's sake, there's nothing wrong with ambition even if it may not always produce the best results. 

richardh wrote: ^ 'Pretentiousness' is bad if the band is overstretching themselves. Lamb has some wonderfull songs but why exactly does it need so much filler to make it a double? Possibly for innocent reasons just to provide enough material for a grand theatrical experience which would be fair enough. But isn't there also an element of self aggrandisement..oh look at us we can do a double album with obscure ideas and look intellectually superior as a result..? Thats pretentious!

I think Genesis were among the least pretentious of all the big ones, and I would describe The Lamb as "ambitious" rather than "pretentious". No fillers for my taste, it's perfectly OK.

cstack3 wrote: Squire's stage attire in this Youtube clip is pretty damn pretentious! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzm_ANpcJhk GREAT song, though!  There was a better version on YouTube (more in sync), but I guess it got yanked.   Ahhh...the good old days, Squire wearing capes, big boots etc.!!   And thin!!  Happens to the best of us!

Tony Banks has said in interviews that there was a little bit of filler material on Lamb. Some of this is music that is / was part of the theatrical experience -  probably giving Gabriel plenty of time to look like a human haemmorhoid i.e. change costumes.

Not sure about the self aggrandisement bit. They were in such a hurry to get6 it finished they probably would have settled for a single LP just to ease the pressure. But it is the sort of work that needs a fair bit of room to be portrayed. Nowadays it would be  a single CD (probably) and no one would blink an eye. But a multi box set of wax cylinders... oops I mean 2 record set had to be it.

Genesis never quite struck me as the sort of gys who might think how wonderful and superior they are (despite having the public school education.) This sort of interview would be interesting but I really think their own intelligence and demeanour stops them from being too obviously pratty.

It was really the punk press (here we go...) that fostered these ideas.

Is pretentious a bad thing? Aiming to achieve higher planes? IMHO nothing in prog rock is badly pretentious though personal taste dictates perception.

I find that dumbed down pop music (i.e. the producers assume the audience is so stupid as to accept one chord no melody type cut and paste songs) to be arrogant, patronsing and insulting.

Prog rock does not talk down to it's audience. Certainly much may be oblique but this after all cerebral  music. it can be a challenge until you get used to the idea. Move on to Magma then...

Imagine (if you can) Tales as a pop chorus type effort... doesn't scan. Lamb Lies Donw has some top tunes Ititle track. IT), a great atmosphere and a sense of the absurd  a dig at Broadway, the Rolling Stones and unauthorised and impromptu sex changes. Only knock and know all...

To accuse music of pretension... is this not the equivant of trying to keep chains on it, only have parameters of expression that are within the collective good...?

Actually when I saw this title in this thread I thought this might be a good comedy moment.

Flowers on heads and flying pianos, swirling capes and make up etc... the more shall we say, superficial elements of this music as deemed necessary to get the content htrough to an audience whose taste is / has been "guided" by an industry are funny - to varying extents. These bits are the entertainment..

Not that verything released is a total success but that's our individual taste - allowed to be unconfined by fashion industry diktat.