Most Pretentious Moments In Prog

AerosolKid74 wrote: Egg in general

 

Maybe it's all fashionable now. --uduwudu

Hmm, I rather think the press originated the idea. Something to do with not getting invited to Floyd backstages and interviews (syuch as they ever happned at the time.) Not to mention the idea that interviewing Tony Banks may not get them high or laid. Not a scene I ever associated with Gabriel's Angels aka Genesis.

I reserve the right to be completely wrong of course.

The odd thing is that this dinosaur thing has been perpetuated for longer than it first was seen as ancient (and therefore a BAD thing.)

It wasn't just pretentious of the press; it was wrong in their role as objective (such as anyone can be) gatekeepers of the music world.

Still I shopped for some music (Schubert, Greig and Vai) today and saw a magazine with PROG as the title. A Classic Rock spin off. Maybe it's all fashionable now.

Yes we would have jazz. Life would indeed be just fine. Good point. So long as that includes Frank Zappa.

We will however have wars. Lots of them. Forever and ever. Amen. Etc.

InClouds wrote: So then aren't you just changing the definition of pretentious to whatever you want it to be?  If the music is cheesy, then call it cheesy.  If it can have so many possible meanings then it no longer really serves a purpose.

That's my point more or less.  It's very subjective.  There is no warning label on the back of the CD or anything.  By definition answering this question is bound to offend someone who totally loves what you are tagging with the term.  So it's best not to take this thread too seriously, it's really just interesting to hear what the different opinions are.

thechrisl wrote: Not 100% true all the time (i.e. Floyd) but it's a pretty good barometer.  BTW I can't take this thread too seriously.  Hopefully no one else is.  I guess it's hard because, for example, the guy who mentioned the vocals in 2112 might make me question my own taste in music because I loves me some 2112.  But I won't let that happen... In my mind there are different flavors of "pretentious".  It doesn't always mean "bad".  It may just mean "cheesy" but good.  In some cases I'd call it a guilty pleasure - something I might let myself enjoy once in a while but don't listen to all the time because it doesn't really move me (maybe I should add "any more"). I'm tempted to use 80s metal as an example in order to get away from specific prog bands.  Occasionally I still love cranking up a classic song by Accept, Motley Crue's first album, maybe some Triumph ("Time Goes By" anyone?).  It feels good for a bit, brings back old times.  But I usually move on pretty quickly. So yeah, I do that with ELP and DT too.

thechrisl wrote: InClouds wrote: thechrisl wrote: ELP -- The Endless Enigma pt. 2 when the vocals kick in.  Mainly because it is wedged clumsily in between two of their best tracks: Fugue and From The Beginning. See also 80% of Dream Theater. Why does DT get so much hate around here?  I'm thoroughly baffled.  There are certainly much more pretentious prog bands then Dream Theater, that's for sure. No hate, I like some of their stuff, sometimes.  Just answering the question, tongue in cheek, somewhat. On a similar note, I've determined that one indicator of pretentiousness is how frequently the words "time" and "eternity" are used in the titles or lyrics.

InClouds wrote: I've been wondering...are we all using the same definition of pretentious here?  Based on what I've read in this thread, it seems to mean different thing to different people.  Personally, I see pretentiousness as a bad thing, yet I've seen repeated mentions of "good pretentiousness".  Can someone clarify what that would be? To call something pretentious is to insult it, isn't it?

InClouds wrote: thechrisl wrote: ELP -- The Endless Enigma pt. 2 when the vocals kick in.  Mainly because it is wedged clumsily in between two of their best tracks: Fugue and From The Beginning. See also 80% of Dream Theater. Why does DT get so much hate around here?  I'm thoroughly baffled.  There are certainly much more pretentious prog bands then Dream Theater, that's for sure.

No hate, I like some of their stuff, sometimes.  Just answering the question, tongue in cheek, somewhat.

On a similar note, I've determined that one indicator of pretentiousness is how frequently the words "time" and "eternity" are used in the titles or lyrics.

Is this bad pretentious? (I assume so.) Or good pretentious? (as many qualify their responses.)

U2 used to be one of those new wave bands that decried Yes and Wakeman especially. Apparently their criticism was born not from what's RW and Yes played but Mr Wakeman's capes. I don't know if such superficial criticism is pretentious but I had the reltive fortune to see a new U2 DVD (in a shop en passant) and Bono is dressed in lots of pink fluoresence. He warbled "Baby, baby, baby...' dull (one note bass lines that make Christopher Squire sound like Satriani) music boomed and the programmed sycophants (my pretentious term for the audience) cried out for more. As someone recently observed The Eade was on a tour and got trapped inside a giant Lemon for half an hour. As life imitates Spianl Tap...

I find little pretentious (but alot very ambitious) in prog rock and other sub genres around it. But when so called working class heroes who decry ambitious rock music and then take the more superficial aspects (do them v.v. badly) then get lauded for this historic hypocrisy; now this to me is pretentious, the very bad sort.

There'a lot in the prog related area I'm not into much - from The Beatles to Dream Theater though I do have one album of each. But this is just ambition. You don't get advanced composition with all that comes with it without ambition. Sometimes things might not work out for some listeners but boy do these bands really deserve the verbal lynching they get? DT getting slayed ... for playing music? I read some critcisms elsewhere of Guns 'n' Roses (not a big favourite of mine, November Rain being an example to me of pretension) but do they get some pasting from people. Wishing Rose is dead? Why? Singing for G n R? Dream Theater getting hate posts? Or the vilification / idolatry of Waters' Floyd' Final Cut PA reviews. Now there's some hate going on there.

Of course all this negativity reaches it's nadir with Dimebag Darrell (Pantera ) being gunned down by some lunatic, same with the more notorious murder of John Lennon.

Probably not quite what the thread was about (pretension not hate) but related here and there. Just thought it might be a good idea to not take some band's recordings so personally if this is the consequence. As FZ said to the guy in the audience (1969 Appleton) who was screaming madly "stop it, you'll hurt yourself."