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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 15:55
Ya'll need to check out G Prokofiev's "Concerto For Turntables & Orchestra", recorded by DJ Yoda & The Heritage Orchestra.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 14:53
Originally posted by Formentera Lady Formentera Lady wrote:

It is nice that hip hop artists seem to be inspired by prog rock. Still I think that just sampling a song and repeating a sample all the time is not a prog rock criteria.

Of course, hip hop may be entertaining. The following I like, but only because it combines hip hop with traditional east european music.

I think there is Czech band Gipsy.cz who are Romani people doing Hip-hop music influenced by Romani music, which means Eastern influences as well.

Check them here:

http://www.gipsy.cz/en/bio.php

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 14:47
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

Ok. They stole music and now you want us to say hip-hip is innovative, or has some quality? This is hard to understand.


There's too much empty rage here against hip-hop. I'm not exactly an admirer of the genre (the only hip-hop album I ever bought was the one by the Fugees, if that counts!) but I can tell that many hip-hop tracks are MASSIVELY entertaining. If I were a teenager looking for thrills, I'd have hip-hop tracks on my ipod too!

Middle-aged prog fans raging against rap remind me of my grandparents informing me that comic strips are inferior to "real" novels.

(And I'm writing these things as a fifty year old.)
ClapClapClap
 
The problem is hip hop/Rap is now almost defunct. The crap the kids are hearing these days are real pseudo version of krumping and clowning and the crap like Outkast, Beyonce, Kylie Minogue, Pop Idol all sound the same. BUT I have seen some really good revived motown.
 
Check out some of Kanye West's stuff, pretty good!
The problem is hip hop/Rap is now almost defunct.
For you is a problem, for me it's a good thing. We just think differently, I dont think that I'm right and you are wrong. Only this is not hiphoparchives.com
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 14:24
Hey, remember the time Kanye stole from King Crimson and Sunshine Band?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 14:20
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

Ok. They stole music and now you want us to say hip-hip is innovative, or has some quality? This is hard to understand.


There's too much empty rage here against hip-hop. I'm not exactly an admirer of the genre (the only hip-hop album I ever bought was the one by the Fugees, if that counts!) but I can tell that many hip-hop tracks are MASSIVELY entertaining. If I were a teenager looking for thrills, I'd have hip-hop tracks on my ipod too!

Middle-aged prog fans raging against rap remind me of my grandparents informing me that comic strips are inferior to "real" novels.

(And I'm writing these things as a fifty year old.)
ClapClapClap
 
The problem is hip hop/Rap is now almost defunct. The crap the kids are hearing these days are real pseudo version of krumping and clowning and the crap like Outkast, Beyonce, Kylie Minogue, Pop Idol all sound the same. BUT I have seen some really good revived motown.
 
Check out some of Kanye West's stuff, pretty good!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 14:05
Originally posted by Nathaniel607 Nathaniel607 wrote:

I think sampling prog songs is all well and good, but can you link me to an interesting or proggy rap song that isn't so simply by virtue of sampling one?

The first one is kind of okay, but just repeats itself over and over and gets really boring. Also, the second one is pretty crap, he only sample one part and I really don't like what he did with it.

Sorry! Haven't convinced me yet lol.
Try the first track off Peter Gabriel's OVO
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 13:58
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

In first place, what ELP does is not sampling, you can call it cover if you want, but musicians playing instruments is not the same as a guy with a recorder adding some basic percussion patterns to the music created and performed by others by others

In second place, I always wonder why people feel free to come to a Prog site ad say phrases like ELP is pompous crap or Rick Wakeman made that infamous Arthur on Ice, or even worst "All retro Prog is crap", and nobody says a word.

But if in the same Prog site somebody says that he/she doesn't like Rap or Hip Hop, we are middle age ignorant who don't accept that music has to change.

Yes, I'm middle age, but for me sampling is not making ,music,, it's staling what real musicians did, but covers are a valid form of music, just listen guys like Manfred Mann with the Earth Band making a cover of "Blinded by the Light" by Bruce Springsteen (After paying royalties),they create a new, different song, which IMO is much better than the original.

Guys like Emerson had enough respect to go to Ginastera's house to play his Tocatta version before him and received the blessing of the composer who found the track amazing, before even daring to release Brain Salad Surgery,.

There's a huge difference, but at the end, we are free to like what we want and dislike what we want too, accept it.

Iván
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 13:58
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

In first place, what ELP does is not sampling, you can call it cover if you want, but musicians playing instruments is not the same as a guy with a recorder adding some basic percussion patterns to the music created and performed by others by others

In second place, I always wonder why people feel free to come to a Prog site ad say phrases like ELP is pompous crap or Rick Wakeman made that infamous Arthur on Ice, or even worst "All retro Prog is crap", and nobody says a word.

But if in the same Prog site somebody says that he/she doesn't like Rap or Hip Hop, we are middle age ignorant who don't accept that music has to change.

Yes, I'm middle age, but for me sampling is not making ,music,, it's staling what real musicians did, but covers are a valid form of music, just listen guys like Manfred Mann with the Earth Band making a cover of "Blinded by the Light" by Bruce Springsteen (After paying royalties),they create a new, different song, which IMO is much better than the original.

Guys like Emerson had enough respect to go to Ginastera's house to play his Tocatta version before him and received the blessing of the composer who found the track amazing, before even daring to release Brain Salad Surgery,.

There's a huge difference, but at the end, we are free to like what we want and dislike what we want too, accept it.

Iván
I couldn't agree more Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 10:51

In first place, what ELP does is not sampling, you can call it cover if you want, but musicians playing instruments is not the same as a guy with a recorder adding some basic percussion patterns to the music created and performed by others

In second place, I always wonder why people feel free to come to a Prog site ad say phrases like ELP is pompous crap or Rick Wakeman made that infamous Arthur on Ice, or even worst "All retro Prog is crap", and nobody says a word.

But if in the same Prog site somebody says that he/she doesn't like Rap or Hip Hop, we are middle age ignorant who don't accept that music has to change.

Yes, I'm middle age, but for me sampling is not making music,, it's stealing what real musicians did (As far as I know is very common not to pay royalties), but covers are a valid form of music, just listen guys like Manfred Mann with the Earth Band making a cover of "Blinded by the Light" by Bruce Springsteen (After paying royalties), they create a new, different song, which IMO is much better than the original.

Guys like Emerson had enough respect to go to Ginastera's house to play his Tocatta version before him and received the blessing of the composer who found the track amazing, before even daring to release Brain Salad Surgery,.

There's a huge difference, but at the end, we are free to like what we want and dislike what we want too, accept it.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 05 2010 at 19:28
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 09:02
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Problem I have with today's Hip Hop artists is they don't pay enough homage to the originators of hip hop....Its like they think they (todays artists) actually invented it. I don't listen to any of it, I truely feel its rubbish.

I feel the same way. It does nothing for me at all. 

The other issue I have is the need for Hip-Hop artists to sample other people's work directly. It's one thing to be heavily influenced by other musicians and genres and write music that has similar qualities-we see a lot of that in prog. But to sample sections of another persons work and use it in your work is not talented and not original. It's just cutting and pasting, not originating.

One last comment-I know many artists, including prog bands, may slip in a riff from another band in a song. The difference-it's usually a quick one-time homage and then it's gone. Most of these Hip-Hop tracks have the sample repeating several times during a track-that's just a rip-off and not very original or talented IMHO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 08:57
I have no knowlegle or hip-hop or rap, since everytime I've tried to listen to it, I've found it quite boring. I don't understand why sampling someone else's music is a cool thing. Why not write your own music and sing/rap to it? Anyways, I must be old fashioned (and old too), but when an artist writes, arranges, orchestrates and performs his/her own music, then I will be interested. I'm sure some hip-hop artists write some of their material, but I haven't found something that appeals to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 08:54
Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

Ok. They stole music and now you want us to say hip-hip is innovative, or has some quality? This is hard to understand.


There's too much empty rage here against hip-hop. I'm not exactly an admirer of the genre (the only hip-hop album I ever bought was the one by the Fugees, if that counts!) but I can tell that many hip-hop tracks are MASSIVELY entertaining. If I were a teenager looking for thrills, I'd have hip-hop tracks on my ipod too!

Middle-aged prog fans raging against rap remind me of my grandparents informing me that comic strips are inferior to "real" novels.

(And I'm writing these things as a fifty year old.)


I'm twenty-one and I just finished my teenage years. I've always disliked the 'status'-element of the songs, the fact it is music without any instruments played, the negative attention of the rappers, the self-pity, the 'social criticism' by rappers who are villains themselves, etc. Sounding cool is not enough. I want to hear art.
I'm close to 50 too. I'm old enough to have had the possibility to see what the majors have always done against art. Since Jackson 5, through Bee Gees, then boy bands and so on.
It's not question of Comics and novels. It's question of music and something else. Hip-hop can be a different kind of art, maybe, but it doesn't have anything to do with music. 

In addition I'm old enough to feel the urge to rush in listening all the things that I like, so I can't waste time on people dancing and speaking over a 4/4 tempo regardless the samples behind.

You have all the right to like it, but this site is not the right place. 
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 08:47
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

Ok. They stole music and now you want us to say hip-hip is innovative, or has some quality? This is hard to understand.


There's too much empty rage here against hip-hop. I'm not exactly an admirer of the genre (the only hip-hop album I ever bought was the one by the Fugees, if that counts!) but I can tell that many hip-hop tracks are MASSIVELY entertaining. If I were a teenager looking for thrills, I'd have hip-hop tracks on my ipod too!

Middle-aged prog fans raging against rap remind me of my grandparents informing me that comic strips are inferior to "real" novels.

(And I'm writing these things as a fifty year old.)


I'm twenty-one and I just finished my teenage years. I've always disliked the 'status'-element of the songs, the fact it is music without any instruments played, the negative attention of the rappers, the self-pity, the 'social criticism' by rappers who are villains themselves, etc. Sounding cool is not enough. I want to hear art.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 08:05
It is nice that hip hop artists seem to be inspired by prog rock. Still I think that just sampling a song and repeating a sample all the time is not a prog rock criteria.

Of course, hip hop may be entertaining. The following I like, but only because it combines hip hop with traditional east european music.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 06:58
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

No Hip Hop in Prog Archives


Too late. http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=15232
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 06:12
Originally posted by 40footwolf 40footwolf wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

1989 was the last great year in the history of music, so is it any wonder that the apogee of hip-hop is from 1989?

So you're admitting you haven't heard any hip hop since 1989?

EDIT: I'm going to sleep, but should the discussion, as it were, continue, I'd advise people who haven't listened to rap/hip-hop since the first Bush administration to refrain from speaking with any authority on the matter. 

I can say with authority that I have no interest whatsoever in "Hippety Hop".

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 05:53
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

Ok. They stole music and now you want us to say hip-hip is innovative, or has some quality? This is hard to understand.


There's too much empty rage here against hip-hop. I'm not exactly an admirer of the genre (the only hip-hop album I ever bought was the one by the Fugees, if that counts!) but I can tell that many hip-hop tracks are MASSIVELY entertaining. If I were a teenager looking for thrills, I'd have hip-hop tracks on my ipod too!

Middle-aged prog fans raging against rap remind me of my grandparents informing me that comic strips are inferior to "real" novels.

(And I'm writing these things as a fifty year old.)


Hanna Montana and Lady Gaga are'nt the only ones that have rabid fanb0is and fangurlz. LOL


Edited by CCVP - September 05 2010 at 05:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 05:43
Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

Ok. They stole music and now you want us to say hip-hip is innovative, or has some quality? This is hard to understand.


There's too much empty rage here against hip-hop. I'm not exactly an admirer of the genre (the only hip-hop album I ever bought was the one by the Fugees, if that counts!) but I can tell that many hip-hop tracks are MASSIVELY entertaining. If I were a teenager looking for thrills, I'd have hip-hop tracks on my ipod too!

Middle-aged prog fans raging against rap remind me of my grandparents informing me that comic strips are inferior to "real" novels.

(And I'm writing these things as a fifty year old.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 05:14
Ok. They stole music and now you want us to say hip-hip is innovative, or has some quality? This is hard to understand.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2010 at 05:08
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

No not in PALOL
 
But three cheers to Tupac, musically way ahead of his time, sadly no more.


Isn't he still releasing albums? LOL

BTW, the first 4 Dream Theater albums and some after (Train of Thought and anotehr i can't remember) have a huge hip hop influence, both on the lyrics and the way the songs are sung. The songs LIE (from the album Awake) and Honor Thy Father (Train of Thought) are prime examples of that.
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