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stonebeard 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
 Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:31 |
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Yeah...humans have this thing where just because they did it, it's special. People sample and release rainforests on mp3 or CD because they're generally beautiful to most people. Why not call it music? Oh, because an advanced ape didn't happen to make the sounds.
Edited by stonebeard - January 31 2011 at 12:31 |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:32 |
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I don't think intent is necessary. Like Stoney said, I don't differentiate it from sound. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:33 |
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Arbitrary b*****ds.
You both have a point. Though it might lead to deleting the "music" entry off the dictionary, since it basically becomes useless. Edited by The T - January 31 2011 at 12:34 |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:36 |
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Like many areas of study, as you progress further and further you find that distinctions are very arbitrary and only reflect an outdated disproved period of thought. I think music and sound are at that point.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:41 |
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I think many definitions and rules are quite arbitrary, remnants of a bygone era when an elite said and did what they wanted and set out all of these things. The more people have access to do all kinds of sh*t, the more the real meaning behind things appear, and usually that meaning is "whatever fits the individual"
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Harold-The-Barrel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2010 Location: Dublin, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 659 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:45 |
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May I also be so bold as to suggest, I havent heard it either but I will also put my hands up to rubbish it because it is Rap...a music form that has zero merit in all its forms
 A personal opinion of course and no amount horses could drag me to him or his sort
Edited by Harold-The-Barrel - January 31 2011 at 12:46 |
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You must be joking.....Take a running jump......
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overmatik
Forum Groupie 
Joined: July 15 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 96 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:46 |
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As long as is pleasant to the ear of the listener is music. I'm not trying to impose subjective views upon anyone, anyone uses their time as they please. Another completely different thing is to put Mr. Kanye West in the same level as serious musicians working hard to produce art.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:49 |
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Many works by Dutilleaux, Penderecki, Stockhausen, Varese, etc, etc, etc, are quite not pleasant to the ear... But you wouldn't deny them the "music" status would you?
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34098 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:50 |
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this album (also from 2010) is also a progressive rap album http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Lucious_Left_Foot:_The_Son_of_Chico_Dusty
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:52 |
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I'm not sure if you're aware what he does. His songs often use samples, but they're not only sampled. His job is equally to tie together 10 or more samples into a coherent whole, and add some of his own melodies, beats and composition to make it more cohesive. Then rap on top of it. The organizational and production approach is no easy task. Having a rigid definition of art like you apparently do can get you into trouble.
Also, as always, checking out DJ Shadow's album Endtroducing........ should be required before discussing sampling. It should be a rule somewhere.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:56 |
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Lol you just tell us you're not trying to push your judgments on us --- AS LONG as we accept your judgment that Kanye West is inherently inferior to other musicians, who you say work much harder than him, based on absolutely no information. Oh that's great. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:57 |
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You should listen anyway because it's a great album.  |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 13:00 |
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I'm sure Jon Anderson of mighty Yes does much less than West... He just sits around, comes up with extremely idiotic lyrics, and "sings"... Yet the rigid vision of Mr. Overmatik (overly-problematic?) is "Prog = good, rap = bad, water = good, fire = bad. Quite neandertalish...
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overmatik
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 15 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 96 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 13:01 |
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Again, in my opinion, which I thought was implied, Kanye West is worthless. If you can see value in his music it is ok, don't worry. Geez, this is a forum right? Everything here are personal opinions. |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: January 31 2011 at 13:07 |
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Your sentence pretty clearly indicates a shift from a subjective statement to one which me should all agree with, but whatever brosive.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Baby Snakes
Forum Newbie 
Joined: January 31 2011 Location: VA, USA Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Posted: February 01 2011 at 04:50 |
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Although music has its subjective tendencies does not mean it should not be held up to a standard, in my humble opinion. Subjective as it may be, if we were to throw out such notions then why don't we just have five year olds banging on xylophones make the top of all the charts?
That's not to say that's what I think Kanye West does. I don't think he's near the bottom of the list when it comes to rappers. I'd put it at average from what rap I do enjoy, but my point is if subjectivity alone dictates the musical standard, what is the point of elevating anything as better than anything else? Why not just listen to the house creak if it's not any better musically? As for sampling, like all things done well, it's about execution. Some people can do amazing things with samples brought from other peoples' music. They still have to control melodies, harmonies, timings, and syncopations to make a worthwhile song out of it.
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overmatik
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 15 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 96 |
Posted: February 01 2011 at 05:37 |
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In the end all this has to do with relativism. I don't believe in it, and I feel free to judge what I think has value from what have not. But in no way will I try to force into people my own personal tastes. That is why I'm an atheist, after all. |
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"Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman."
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: February 01 2011 at 06:47 |
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Because people don't like 5 year old orchestras. What's your point? Somebody did record an album of free improvising children (The Tangerine Awkestra, I am 90% certain everything surrounding it is a joke) and it takes a very special kind of person to enjoy that. |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: March 02 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 19643 |
Posted: February 01 2011 at 07:50 |
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Well I never!  he did play pretty much every instrument on his first solo album, you know The new album is good, probably 3/5 or 4/5 from me if I had to choose. I still prefer 808s & Heartbreak. |
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overmatik
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 15 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 96 |
Posted: February 01 2011 at 08:04 |
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Actually what I would like to know is: Regardless of wheter you like Kanye or not, do you guys consider this album to be even among the top 10 releases of 2010? I do not.
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"Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman."
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Kanye West- Album Of The Year
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The T wrote: