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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 12:42

About violating the PA rules, I'd say, the PA top has the main responsibility that it doesn't happen.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ the thread is about how NOT to discuss so i'm demonstrating how NOT to discuss

Too much drama on this site so i'd rather learn about bugs

Weren't you the one preaching about not taking things personally?

Better practice what you preach LOL


I know that you know that you are a smart man, Silly Puppy.  You know how to craft a post-breaming with plausible deniability.  What bugs me?  I know you're a good man Silly Puppy, and you know what you are doing. You know that you put a bug in Mike's ear.  You know Mike knows what you mean.  Now you know that I know you know. Do know what I mean? Wink 
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Points: 1551 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 10:02
One piece of wisdom I learned many years ago, primarily for heated face to face situations, is this, "Just because someone asks you a question, doesn't mean you have ä to answer it. And they have no right to expect an answer"

We are all responsible for the words that we utter.
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Logan View Drop Down
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I like to sometimes say, feel free to speak your mind but mind your speech.

Free speech necessarily has its limits.
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 09:34
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Free speech includes the right to attack and insult people, which goes against the PA rules. So you really can't have both. You can only have "free speech, BUT ..."

I guess, most people around here will know what kind of free speech I'm talking about. Wink


Edited by David_D - October 31 2023 at 09:35
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21806 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 09:16
Free speech includes the right to attack and insult people, which goes against the PA rules. So you really can't have both. You can only have "free speech, BUT ..."
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 09:09
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

F the rules. FREE SPEECH!!!

FREE SPEECH!!!  Yes!! ....but while keeping the PA rules. Smile
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

F the rules. FREE SPEECH!!!

Hi,

Sadly, as you can see here, there are some folks that don't believe in FREE SPEECH and would rather try to find some kind of this or that ... to make them feel that they can "control" the environment. 

I always thought that the best control was no control at all! But, even in America, FS is not exactly believed when the media sets out to enhance ... "you're fired" ... as a way to ruin people's lives and make sure that said person is not "competing". At that point, the rules of the "game" are no longer FS, but something that should be addressed sooner or later.


There are indubitably some strange ideas of "free speech" floating around here. LOL

Hi,

If you were in America, you would see the media in newspapers say nothing, and instead add articles and materials that confuse matters even more ... if you, AT LEAST, knew their political leanings, as in left or right, you might get a better idea of it all, but it has become about misinformation and not giving a darn about the public and what it is telling them. This was the case with the Covid thing, and it was/is the case with Mr. Trump and it continues on and on with rich folks in congress controlling it all, and specially in some states, some politicians adding anti-abortion rules, that in some cases the public have overruled ... to give you an idea. 

The whole thing is so weird and out of touch with reality ... and what is stranger is that so many American folks won't vote in order to make the changes that make sense. In one state, they have almost 30% of the population being people of color, and they don't all show up to vote, in order to make a difference. In another state, it is like over 30% spanish speaking, but their leaders are not even close to it!

One wonders how, and why, and when ... some things will make sense. And misinformation is not helping ... it is sending folks away instead!

Reminds me of an ex-president in America that joked ... let them all smoke dope! I'll win all the elections! ... now you know the "truth" in many states in America.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 15447 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 08:52
^ the thread is about how NOT to discuss so i'm demonstrating how NOT to discuss

Too much drama on this site so i'd rather learn about bugs

Weren't you the one preaching about not taking things personally?

Better practice what you preach LOL

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21806 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 08:31
^ This is like defecating right on my doorsteps in real life. Go ahead, if it makes you proud.
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 15447 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 07:36
E120 is a red colouring obtained from the cochineal beetle. Fluid from the beetles is mixed with other substances (e.g. tin) to make it more colour-fast. The colouring is used in various well-known food products — chocolate, yoghurt drinks, etc. — as well as in pharmaceutical products. In order to obtain the colouring, hot water is poured on the insects (after which they are dried), and they are ground and steamed. In order to obtain 1 kg of E120, 155 000 insects are needed.

E904 - Shellac is a resin secreted by the female lac bug, on trees in the forests of India and Thailand. It is processed and sold as dry flakes -pictured- and dissolved in alcohol to make liquid shellac, which is used as a brush-on colorant, food glaze and wood finish. Shellac functions as a tough natural primer, sanding sealant, tannin-blocker, odour-blocker, stain, and high-gloss varnish. Shellac was once used in electrical applications as it possesses good insulation qualities and it seals out moisture. Phonograph and 78 rpm gramophone records were made of it until they were replaced by vinyl long-playing records from the 1950s onwards. From the time it replaced oil and wax finishes in the 19th century, shellac was one of the dominant wood finishes in the western world until it was largely replaced by nitrocellulose lacquer in the 1920s and 1930s. It is used as a glaze for candy (including Jelly Belly jellybeans) as well as pills, and as a coating on citrus fruit and apples to prolong shelf-life. When you see an “E-number” like E904, it refers to an ingredient that has been approved by the European Union for use as a food additive.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 07:18
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I see that things are getting ugly again because people insist to make it personal.

I think it's a pity if a thread with such a good topic just get very personal. There has been much violating of PA rules by not so few persons, and I think it would be much more constructive try to prevent that the same will happen in the future.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21806 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 04:47
^ Holding a grudge ... not a good thing. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, and I can say whole-heartedly that I am not holding a grudge against anybody I have interacted with here. 
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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
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Forgiveness is in short supply on Prog Archives.   
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21806 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 02:42
I see that things are getting ugly again because people insist to make it personal. If you think I am a hypocrite for posting these rules then I respect that. Please note though that I have said that I have made mistakes. I am TRYING to be polite and respectful, believe it or not.
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Points: 21806 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 02:14
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

 I'm a hypocrite, I censor myself all the time. I just thought it was ironic that the only person who has ever sent me a nasty PM in 16 years on this site, decided to start a thread about the need for politeness. The whole thing lacks any kind of integrity.

Well, maybe this was the first time in 16 years on this site that you singled-out and attacked a member a dozen times. There's a first for everything.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 31 2023 at 02:30
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21806 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 02:11
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

OK, I know that I don't always cover myself in glory regarding discussion behaviour, but anyway I can't get around the fact that here a guy who told me to f... off and called my a liar in PMs suggests a set of discussion rules starting with with "Be polite" (there's more irony than was visible to the naked eye just looking at this thread). Of course he will say I started it (you can check in the Waters Time Redux thread; on top of that I had sent an admittedly not totally nice PM complaining about having been misinterpreted based on very thin information that he had as I didn't want to continue with OT in that thread), but still...

I was that guy. If you need to wash your dirty laundry in public, at least go all the way.
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Cristi View Drop Down
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The site & forum has its own rules, have people forgotten that?! Confused
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I understand that I'm missung a lot of context here, so I'll stay away from all of this like I usually do. But
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

(3) There is no objective threshold for "insulting" and "becoming personal" in discussions. Something that may not be intended as insult can be seen as insult; potentially something may have been stated as insult unconsciously even if the person who said it was not consciously aware of it. Also even without any bad intentions (conscious or unconscious) on one side there can be good reasons to perceive something as insult on the other side (for example because of cultural differences). Also arguing against an opinion held by somebody else can very easily involve personal attack, potentially in a rather subtle and often unconscious manner. People who have no personal involvement may not normally be the best qualified people to discuss something, but people who are personally involved may react in a personal manner.
I know there's no objective threshold for "insulting" and "becoming personal" in discussions. But I don't need objective thresholds - most of the time. By and large I trust my own abilities to tell the difference. Like most things in life objective thresholds are non-existing or irrelevant. Personal/not personal is somehow related - or on a scale. Relatively often from a "Your favorite vocalist sings out of tune" to something in the line of "f**k you, idiot" (and how about adding a "I'll break your nose it we'll ever meet")

& we think differently:
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

(1) A major principle of mine is that we can't convince other people; people can only convince themselves.
The way I see it, if someone provides me with a new perspective that makes me change my mind or think differently, then that person has convinced me. I wouldn't have been changed without that person's input, but probably stayed the same. Something external changed me internally.
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

F the rules. FREE SPEECH!!!


How quaint.

There never has been "free speech', only an arbitrary line which should not be crossed.

It is control of where that line is drawn that people are so invested in, especially politicians and comedians.
I'm a hypocrite, I censor myself all the time. I just thought it was ironic that the only person who has ever sent me a nasty PM in 16 years on this site, decided to start a thread about the need for politeness. The whole thing lacks any kind of integrity.
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