Fragile is Superestimated?

Logan wrote: I was going to note that we have a rule about avoiding political discussions here as they can get so heated and unpleasant -- of course sometimes the political is so important to the release and the artist and the times that one can't explore those well without delving into the political dimensions (so within reason) -- but then I see that it has moved on with the wonderful post above this. Thanks. Incidentally, I love Oregon.

Greg,

I apologize for my part in bringing politics into this thread. Back to the thread on Fragile. Yes is my favorite band and I think Fragile is just Super.

moshkito wrote: Themistocles wrote: ... But I digress... Fragile is just that, a fragile crystalline structure that is becoming and growing. A massive transition album not for just the band but music in general. Roundabout was the first real Prog song I heard and I loved it instantly, more than most music. That album has immense amplitude and unlocked so many other things. Hi, I got into the band by their previous album, when I heard some pieces on the radio ... and they were neat. While I will not say anything bad about FRAGILE, the thought/idea mentioned in these posts of the individual small pieces, is weird to my ears ... there is no true musician out there that does not try, or work some different stuff to help themselves gauge their own talent by themselves, and different stuff is always a treat, if not tricky, even though this was not exactly the first album that showed that kind of stuff. That a few fans dislike it, makes me want to say ... find another band, as this one is not for you! ROUNDABOUT is the piece I love to hate. I saw the group at the Long Beach Arena in 1972, during the TFTO tour. It was magnificent and then some ... but the crowd stayed quiet, and the band then had their break and came back with CTTE I think it was, and the crowd picked up ... a bit, not much, and an hour later they were done, and they left, and came back for the encore, which was ROUNDABOUT, and immediately everyone screamed ... I got really sad at that moment ... they had played over 2 hours of phenomenal material and everyone did a really good impression of an European audience, and the applause for TFTO was not great, but was not bad ... and I got up and left ... crying. I knew then, and there, that it wasn't about the MUSIC at all ... it was about the hit and the fans ... and I felt the fans would eventually kinda hurt a lot of bands if they were not strong enough to stand up for their music and almost all of them wilted ... you gotta give credit to Led Zeppelin, King Crimson and Frank Zappa (for example) that NEVER really gave in to the audience itself and continued doing what they did best ... AMAZE us ... Right away the media picked up on curry and then his solo albums which is the reason for trashing TFTO so his albums would look/appear better ... and to me, this was what I had seen at the Long Beach Arena. I did get RELAYER, but that was the last album I got and while I heard some things, in general, I never bothered with YES again ... there was much better and interesting music out of Europe by that time, and YES was not that important, and even ... repetitive I think. But both the YES ALBUM and FRAGILE bring back some very wonderful memories ... I played those albums to their death!

Nearly a complete disagreement with your post.

First, just because a song is a big hit does not mean it's a bad song. I laugh when I watched the scene from Guardians of the Galaxy 2 when Star-Lord and Ego start talking about Looking Glass' "Brandy" being Earth's finest musical composition. My brother and I agreed that Ego and Star-Lord might be right. It's either that or Stravinsky's " Rite of Spring ", Beethoven's "9th Symphony" or Bach's " Toccata and Fugue in D minor."

Nothing wrong with playing the "hits" by a band. The fact that it's the fans who bought your albums and merchandise and made you rich, I would say it would be selfish not to give back.

Again, using sports as an example, Golf's Nelly Korda and Padraig Harrington have discussed that it's important to play in these Pro-Am tournaments, do meet and greets and sign autographs. It's because of the fans that allow them to become rich. They know it's important to give back.

The European scene, especially when you leave out Great Britain, which you seem to do, was nowhere close to being as interesting as what was going on in North America or Great Britain in my opinion, especially in Jazz, Funk, Heavy Metal and Pop-Rock in the 70s.

As far as Yes is concerned. Chris Squire has stated the reason for the individual pieces on Fragile was to save on time and money. Bill Bruford also thought another benefit to the individual pieces is that it would showcase each member. Hindsight is that my preference would have been another group piece. But, I still want to keep the "Fish" as Long Distance Runaround segues so well into Squire's track. And I like, really like "Mood for a Day." It's one of the first classical guitar pieces of music I learned. I think Bruford's piece is interesting, but not fully developed. The Wakeman and Anderson pieces I'm ambivalent.

My experience with Yes is far different than yours. I remember audiences being quite enthused listening to Awaken, Southside of the Sky and Gates of Delirium, none of which would be considered "pop" tunes. But, then I never took drugs and rarely drink, so I was very aware of what was going on around me. Never cried either at any concert, although I came close once with Awaken. That one can stir the emotions.

moshkito wrote: Big Sky wrote: ...... The European scene, especially when you leave out Great Britain, which you seem to do, was nowhere close to being as interesting as what was going on in North America or Great Britain in my opinion, especially in Jazz, Funk, Heavy Metal and Pop-Rock in the 70s. ... You got to be kidding me ... few folks here discuss so much foreign music as I do. I leave out Great Britain, because AT THE TIME, there was also magnificent music elsewhere in Europe (and Japan) that is ignored because of the fan stuff here. That does not mean I dislike the hits ... you suggesting I don't, is ridiculous ... there are a lot of really great pieces out there, but the sad fact is, that not even you is capable of showing these clearly with one of the other Italian, French or German bands, and any others in Europe ... there have always been fantastic music in Europe, which has a massive history of the arts, and specially music, and you think that I leave out GB ... not really ... but you do not know that I am one of the originals that was playing "imports" before many of them became a part of the European scene. Big Sky wrote: ... My experience with Yes is far different than yours. I remember audiences being quite enthused listening to Awaken, Southside of the Sky and Gates of Delirium, none of which would be considered "pop" tunes. But, then I never took drugs and rarely drink, so I was very aware of what was going on around me. Never cried either at any concert, although I came close once with Awaken. That one can stir the emotions. I did not say I disliked the stuff ... I simply had to spend my money on other things I loved more, and Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze were more meaningful to my experience than YES became ... and that has nothing to do with my liking them or not. Heck, I saw them again a few years back, on what I think was Chris' last voyage through here in Oregon ... they were fine, but the cardboard hippie girls with colored hair and dressed a la SF in the mid 60's was ... way boring, and not even funny!

Moshkito,

So you talk about more foreign music. Ok, so what? I mean Rush, Yes, Genesis, Triumph, etc, etc are also foreign to me. After all, I live in the US. I'm a huge fan of Tigran Hamasyan ( Armenian), Matteo Mancuso (Italian) and Plini (Australian). I love classical guitar. John Williams (Australian), Andres Segovia (Spain), Julian Bream (England), Ana Vidovic ( Croatian), Stephanie Jones (Australian) and Xufei Yang( Chinese) to name a few guitarist I'm a fan. I've brought up classical guitar on a number of post on this forum. I'm very aware of music outside of the US and Great Britain.

My job (retired) had me travel the world. It would be easier to name the Middle East countries I have not been to than the ones that I have. On one assignment I ran into Ronnie James Dio in Chelyabinsk, Russia when they were touring Eastern Europe. The band stayed at the same hotel as I did, the Hotel Victoria. Talked to his band at the bar. The next day, bassist Rudy Szarzo was having breakfast and waved me over to have breakfast with him. It's funny, he wanted to know about my job and I was more interested in talking to him about the bands he had been in, especially Quiet Riot and was Kevin Dubrow as big a jerk as had he been made out to be.

In other words, I was exposed to lot of different music. At a restaurant I went to have dinner in Panama there was a guitar duo playing that sounded like they had listened to quite a bit of the great Flamenco guitarist Paco de Lucia. But, in the streets, I ran across a percussion ensemble who was playing Tamborito folk music. It was terrific.

So you prefer Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shultz and I assume Kraftwerk to Yes and ELP I never really got into the electronic Prog scene despite numerous efforts. I admit their influence. But, Yes, Gentle Giant, Genesis, etc, etc were far more interesting to me and I certainly enjoyed their music more. As far as "imports" I bought a couple albums from PFM. They are an Italian Prog Rock group. You may have heard of them.

I'm quite aware of Europe's massive contribution in the arts. It's far older than the US. Just in music, there is no comparison in the Classical music. Aaron Copland is probably the greatest US composer, but he pales in comparison to Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and Stravinsky. But with the Jazz scene, it's the US that has led the way with all due respect to the Gypsy Jazz scene. The Blues scene definetly favored the US. English artists such as Clapton and Page have admitted how much American blues influenced their music. Of course I have not even brought up Country and Bluegrass music. I believe the music scene in the US and especially if you keep Britain out of the equation in the 70s was far more diverse and interesting than what was going on in Europe, at least in my opinion..