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What Was The First Prog Album |
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Sean Trane 
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 Topic: What Was The First Prog AlbumPosted: 6 minutes ago at 01:17 |
How about Magma: didn't they singlehandedly started Zeuhl?  One could say that same with Zappa. Otherwise, I agree wit the rest of your post |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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moshkito
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Posted: 1 hour 42 minutes ago at 23:41 |
Hi, I like this, and I wonder if this album ended up defining something about the music that no one gives a damn about, these days (nothing to fight for?) ... but it was very clear in the KC album ... it's lyrics were very pointed and direct and took on various themes ... where most bands, did one or two pieces that had a point and the rest was either a filler, or not as important. I kinda remember Jefferson Airplane, be like that some ... one really pointed thing, and then another that was ... wtfudge happened? And these days all books point to the different personalities in the band between Martin, Paul and Grace and probably others. This was not the case with the KC album, and it continued on all musical pieces all the way to the end ... you end it with an Epitaph to the many friends you lost or knew in one way or another ... it didn't matter if it was VietNam or the Irish bombs, or some other global event ... it was all there, but us kinda looking at this as just a "progressive album" or the "1st album in the progressive mode", is nice and a great thing, but I think this makes RF think that the completeness of the work is being ignored and not mentioned or discussed, because no one has read the lyrics, or gives a damn about lyrics anyway! In the end, the lyrical content alone makes a lot of bands come off second rate, and I sometimes think that is a fair statement. Thus, it is a progressive first, and even more so ... lyrically ... something that most of us here, do not like to discuss ... because half the time we don't bother reading it or appreciating it ... witness the usual discussion of TFTO and so many folks dismissing it, as just crap and over stuffed tomatoes! Yeah, in the end, this KC album gets y vote in many more ways than just one ... but I don't think that it got that done without seeing so much of it in front of them by so many other groups and folks, though I would agree that it was not as strong, and complete, as KC managed to get it to be ... and I think this was the strength of the album ... it's not just a bunch of ninny pop songs!!! |
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richardh
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Posted: 20 hours 40 minutes ago at 04:43 |
Sums it up perfectly for me and I would add the idea that you need an elite group of musicicans to realise this to such a high level that puts it apart from the pack. It's an ensemble album, no doubt Fripp was the leader but he was good at letting the guys do their stuff. With the exception of Zappa, very few bands can be named that had this level of virtuosity in its ranks. They explore pop, classical, jazz and avant music. It's all there and done with total clarity and aplomb. |
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Jaketejas
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 23:11 |
I’m impressed with this list! You even have one of the three obscure ones that I mentioned (Omega). I think that sometimes it’s the one that gets the most noise that people put forth, but you make a convincing argument that it was a bubbling cauldron of this and that which morphed into this stew that we call Prog rock. There were certainly a lot of post-WW 2 Jazz cats that were making very complex and modern sounds. I unearthed some of them recently and was just blown away. Check out Art Tatum “Yesterdays” for example. Art Tatum - Yesterdays Edited by Jaketejas - 17 hours 15 minutes ago at 08:08 |
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Atavachron
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 19:26 |
This begs more attention, or appreciation, be given to Giles,Giles,& Fripp's two albums from 1968. Though certainly not 'Prog rock' in the way the Nice presented it, it does have clear evidence of a progressive desire as in 'Tremolo Study in A Major', 'Suite No. 1', 'Erudite Eyes', and of course a neolithic 'I Talk to the Wind' . |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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siLLy puPPy
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 19:10 |
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For anyone interested i made a comprehensive list on Rate Your Music that features the earliest examples of progressive rock, jazz fusion and progressive folk
It covers the early proto-prog as well as the full blown prog and roughly covers the period from 1963 to 1969 with a couple 1970 albums appearing because someone changed the release date since i made this list The multiple tagging feature on RYM allows you to gauge the fuller sound of any particular album. This list was fun to make as it turned me on to many acts i had never explored. /rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/secret-origins-the-earliest-examples-of-progressive-rock-progressive-folk-and-jazz-rock-fusion/ |
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 18:50 |
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I've been listening rather intently to all of the albums listed above and a few more not mentioned here but listed in the discussion thread from 2010 (e.g. Pet Sounds [5/66], Electric Prunes debut [10/66], The Psychedelic Sounds of The 13th Floor Elevators [10/66], Don Ellis' 'Live' at Monterey ! [late 1966], The Doors' debut [1/67], Smiley Smile [5/67], Red Krayola's The Parable of Arable Land [6/67], Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band [6/67], Procol Harum's debut [9/67--though "Whiter Shade of Pale" came out in May], Strawberry Alarm Clock's Incense and Peppermints [a surprisingly VERY proggy album released in October of 1967], Fifty Foot Hose's Cauldron [Winter 1968], The United States of America s/t debut [3/68], Frank Zappa's Lumpy Gravy [5/68], The Crazy World of Arthur Brown [6/68], Pink Floyd's A Saucerful of Secrets [6/68], David Axelrod's Song of Innocence [10/68], Touch's debut [11/68], and The Soft Machine's debut [12/68]) and I have to say the the FEEL that I've come associate with "progressive rock music"--and which ITCotCK epitomizes--was present with Procol Harum's self-titled debut [9/67], The Strawberry Alarm Clock's debut, Incense & Peppermints [10/67], The Moody Blues' Days of Future Passed [10/67], The Nice's The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack [3/68], The United States of America's debut [3/68], Frank Zappa's Lumpy Gravy [5/68], Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets [6/68], David Axelrod's Song of Innocence [10/68], and The Collectors' lone album, The Collectors [11/68]--all of which preceded the year 1969 and King Crimson's fully-fledged masterpiece by over a year.
The purpose of these threads was to discuss which albums you think paved the way for ITCotCK and which ones might have even preceded it as a fully-formed progressive rock album. My vote would go to Days of Future Passed, The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack, and The United States of America debut with honorable mentions to Procul Harum, Arthur Brown, Pink Floyd, and Frank Zappa. |
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Drew Fisher
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Saperlipopette!
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 12:26 |
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^ I don't think any one person - or in this case band, started anything ever, as such. Not single handidly. But with In the Court of the Crimson King, what we commonly understand as "classic Progressive Rock", was sort of calcified. You can find earlier examples and many traces of most - if not all of the music featured on that album. But I'd still argue that there was nothing quite like it out there already, before it was released and unleashed. The effect and influence it has had on the scene that was to become, cannot be overstated imo. In The Court... started something of a musical revolution (in a rock context) that doesn't really happen anymore - almost worldwide. There's so much Progressive Rock (and more) that "we" love and treasure that can be traced back to that specific album.
Edited by Saperlipopette! - May 26 2025 at 15:13 |
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siLLy puPPy
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 10:39 |
There are artists that are truly the first to experiment in a new style and then there are artists that start a revolution KC started the revolution but weren’t the first prog Same thing for the Sex Pistols who started the punk revolution but weren’t the first punk act It seems there a divide between which of these distinctions is being prioritized |
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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Floydoid
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 09:02 |
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There is the other question: Who coined the term 'progressive (or prog) rock'?
But maybe that's another topic altogether. |
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"Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour
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Lewian
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 08:35 |
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Genres are created by perception not production (they are categories for music, not music itself), and with hindsight.
I'd say that ITCOTCK is the first prog album in the sense that people would largely agree, with hindsight, that prog as a genre existed from the point ITCOTCK came out and not before (at least, only a minority would say it existed as a genre before, or it had to wait still for longer). Of course same holds for Hot Rats but rather by implication - Hot Rats could be assigned to an already existing genre at that point without big problems. ITCOTCK not so much. But what is important about this is that the statement that ITCOTCK is the first prog album in this sense is not exclusively a statement about the album itself and the music on it. It is a statement about the state of development of rock music at this point in general, and it also includes that many elements of prog had been there before. This means that all or most of the albums listed here that came before ITCOTCK like Ars Longa Vita Brevis, Days of Future Passed, Freak Out etc. actually contribute to forming the prog genre and have their part in saying that with ITCOTCK prog was finally fully there. So for example the point is not to listen to ALVB and ITCOTCK and to say ITCOTCK sounds full prog and ALVB doesn't. The point is many elements (also brought in by other albums) important to prog were not yet there when ALVB appeared but were there when ITCOTCK appeared, including ALVB itself, and it's this what makes ITCOTCK the "first prog album". Edited by Lewian - May 26 2025 at 08:41 |
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siLLy puPPy
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 08:28 |
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^ i agree with that. Many proto-prog bands really were prog but i think they rushed through many artists in the beginning and pigeonholed them in certain genre tags.
We should really have a multiple tagging system that allows users to vote just like on RYM. That gives a much more accurate description of any particular album. Edited by siLLy puPPy - May 26 2025 at 08:28 |
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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moshkito
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 08:21 |
Hi, I have a tendency to think that considering many of these bands listed as "proto-prog" is not right ... in my book, they were a part of what helped bring what we consider "the real thing" to fruition, thus kinda considering many of these bands "inferior" and not fit to be included in the line with the big kahuna! It makes it look like we could not agree on a lot of things, so we invented a sub-genre, so we could dump all the stuff that wasn't "good enough" to be considered a major work ... The hard part is that I see we are ignoring the history and the timeline of these bands and their life and appreciation/influence ... I think from a ground roots idea, they were probably more important to the general listenership than KC would have been, because their work was easier on the ears, for example. But in all likelihood it was what helped us get ear sensitive and end up appreciating a KC and other works. |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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siLLy puPPy
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 08:05 |
Exactly. Too many like to jump right to KC Crimson King simply because it popularized prog but NOT the actual first prog album. There are many acts that featured prog tracks on non-prog albums but in by 1969 there were a few bonafide prog thru and thru albums that predated KC's big bang prog epic. Albums that came out before 10 October 1969, the day of KC's debut (i'm excluding overly pop or blues rock infused bands but there were many of those too) Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed (10 Nov 1967) Motheres of Invention - Uncle Meat (21 Apr 1969) Soft Machine -Volume Two (July 1969) High Tide - Sea Shanties (12 Sept 1969) East of Eden - Mercator Projected (Febr 1969) Julie Driscoll, Brian Auger & The Trinity - Streetnoise (May 1969) Andromeda - s/t (Sept 1969) Pete Brown & His Battered Ornaments - A Meal You Can Shake Hands With In The Dark (6 June 1969) Colosseum - Those Who Are About To Die Salute You (March 1969) Igginbottom - Igginbottom's Wrench (Aug 1969) Yes - s/t (25 July 1969) Touch - s/t (Nov 1968) The Nice - The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack (Mar 1968) - This band really launched the scene really. Hansson & Karlsson - Monument (Dec 1967) Van der Graaf Generator - The Aerosol Grey Machine (Sept 1969) Ekseption - s/t (July 1969) The Open Window - s/t (May 1969) There are literally dozens more that featured early prog characteristics but existed in that murky "proto-prog" territory KC was without a doubt the most developed and perfected prog album to emerge which is why many consider it ground zero but quality isn't the same as definition :) |
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moshkito
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 07:10 |
Hi, I just find it sad that, even here on PA, a lot of the history is left behind, which kinda makes a lot of albums come off without a soul in my book. Or, as I have heard one time and was incredibly astonished, was someone commenting on Neil Young and his very strong song about Kent State ... and that person thought that Neil was an ash-hole! Music, and any art, is all a part of the complete picture of any time and place, with one slight manipulation ... you look at the Renaissance, and you see the control of the arts, and there are many stories of persecutions and attempts at removing other artists, and writers, and we can go back to Galileo and many others ... the idea was to convince people that the powers that be made the laws and the decisions. You won't even consider that Guernica was a snapshot of a war that a child sees out the window in his house ... and it makes no sense ... the incredible carnage on top of it for a youngster to remember the rest of his life! Sure, calling it "cubism" is of interest, but that's like saying that Miro painted the most meaningful work of the 20th century, which both you and I will ROFLOL ... about! Rock music, specially, broke the mold and they ripped apart American radio for some 15/20 years, but this did not happen without what was taking place in the streets at all ... and I tend to think that over the years we have made the idea that numbers and songs are more important than life itself ... and I find this sad, and sometimes, even with the Internet ... extremely empty ... and something that eventually is going to hurt down the line as we take so much of these songs as if we were, still, 15/16 or 17 years old and loving a song that we played 10 times in a row! But I'm not sure that you won't agree that Jimi, Jim, Jefferson A, Creedence and so many others that were the bands that ended up helping the art rock become progressive rock within a few years! And they had opinions, unlike so many bands today that their work is not exactly important in relation to the rest of their time and place. Edited by moshkito - May 26 2025 at 07:16 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Floydoid
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Posted: May 26 2025 at 02:29 |
'Piper' is definitely not a prog album as we understand it - it falls into the category of Psychedelia. The only exception being 'Interstellar Overdrive' which leans towards full on prog (tho the better version IMO is the one on the 66-67 album). Interstellar certainly laid a blueprint for the brand of space rock that would see them though from 'Saucerful of Secrets' to 'Obscured By Clouds'. Just my opinion of course. |
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"Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour
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ThyroidGlands
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Posted: May 24 2025 at 13:07 |
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Schizoid Man is a completely progressive track, unlike the rest of the album. ITWOP is much more progressive than its predecessor, and I consider Lizard and Islands to be jazz-rock albums with progressive touches. LTIA is definitely a fully progressive album. But well, that's just my opinion.
Anyway, I do consider King Crimson and ITCOTCK as the quintessence of prog (even if that album doesn’t seem entirely progressive to me).
Totally agree. Edited by ThyroidGlands - May 24 2025 at 13:12 |
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You don't know nothin'
You don't know nothin' about You don't know nothin' You don't know nothin' at all |
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DoobieBrother6
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Posted: May 24 2025 at 11:57 |
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PINK FLOYD "Piper at Gates of Dawn" Aug '67
MOODY BLUES "days of Future Passed" Nov '67 HAPHASH AND THE COLOURED COAT Featuring the Human Host...." oct '67 (exceptionally strange "progressive" lp for this time) ART "Supernatural Fairy Tales" Dec '67 THE NICE "Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack" Mar 68 (my mono UK copy says '67 on the label but this is the copywright date - not necessarily the release date.) To further complicate: I'm told the BOOK on The Nice does not give exact date but says it was in the stores Oct '67.!!! The Nice - ars long vita Nov '68 VANILLA FUDGE "Renaissance" June '68 FAMILY "Music In A Doll's house" July 19 '68 MOODY BLUES 'in Search of the Lost Chord" July '68 TOUCH - SAME (I haven't found exact date. They recorded 67-68, lp released in '68. The only non-UK band here.) VAN DER GRAFF GENERATOR "Aerosol Grey Machine" Sept '69 (some say Jan '69) first release was US, not UK PROCOL HARUM "Shine on Brightly" Feb '69 (some say Sept '68 CLOUDS "Scrapbook" Aug '69 Julian's Treatment "A Time Before This" June '70. RARE BIRD - SAME Dec '69 RENAISSANCE -SAME Dec '69 PINK FLOYD "Piper at Gates of Dawn" August 1967 THE NICE "Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack" March 1968 ART "Supernatural Fairy Tales" November 1967 VANILLA FUDGE "Renaissance" June 1968 FAMILY "Music In A Doll's house" July 19 '68 (July 1968) MOODY BLUES 'in Search of the Lost Chord" July 1968 TOUCH - SAME December 1968 VAN DER GRAFF GENERATOR "Aerosol Grey Machine" December 1969 (US release) PROCOL HARUM "Shine on Brightly" December 1968 CLOUDS "Scrapbook" July 1969 KING CRIMSON "Court of Crimbo King" Oct 10 '69 DON SHINN departures Aug '69 .............. RARE BIRD - SAME November 1969 RENAISSANCE -SAME November 1969 Eyes Of Blue - Crossroads Of Time - November 1968 East Of Eden - Mercator Projected - March 1969 Blossom Toes - If Only For A Moment - July 1969 Mighty Baby - s/t - October 1969 Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera - s/t - June 1968 Eire Apparent - Sunrise - May 1969 |
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Saperlipopette!
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Posted: May 24 2025 at 11:56 |
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^ I think I understand what you're trying to say. I mostly tried to relate to this in the way I understood the question being asked, and using the same "logic".
Btw: When I write Hippie or Psychedelic it's not meant as something negative or less worthy. It's closer to stating that Verklarte Nacht by Schoenberg still has a foot in the late Romantic era - while his Suite für Klavier has totaly abandoned that. The former composition is the only one of the two I love and listen to nevertheless.
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Jaketejas
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Posted: May 24 2025 at 11:52 |
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A few other albums from bands from the late 1960s attached with (at least in part) a prog label.
Golden Earring ... 8 Miles High ... Dutch Omega ... 10000 Steps (English translation) ... Hungarian Phoenix ... Vremuri ... Romanian |
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Saperlipopette! wrote: