The Beginning of Rush’s Downfall

For me it's easy - Grace Under Pressure.

I kind of see Rush as a band that moved in phases debut to Caress, 2112/AFTK/Hemispheres, Waves/Moving Pictures/Signals and then the phase which takes in Grace/Power Windows/Hold Your Fire.

Presto and Roll the Bones are funny ones as they seem totally lacking any identity, they definitely sound a band in crisis - rudderless, unsure of their place in the world.

I think they kind of rediscovered some momentum with Counterparts (at least in terms of some kind of identity if not compositionally) but for me the band has become increasingly irrelevant over the past 10 years.

I don't think they've had a downfall per se, (their are still some good moments on all their albums) but I do think Grace is where they creatively ran out of steam. It really has only a couple of good songs - Kid Gloves being the standout track IMO. I believe (like Hemispheres) it was a 'difficult' album to record, lots of tension, creative partnerships being sundered (bye bye Terry Brown) etc etc. and I do think it shows.

Thereafter, it was just a case of being sucked into a hideous vortex of '80s production values which have aged very very badly.

I remember hearing Big Money, with its whopping revolving guitar riff, on its release as a single and thinking - 'wait a minute, back on form here boys' and being impressed by Power Windows' huge sound when I got the album. Years go by, however, and that 'recorded in the hull of a rusty ssupertanker' reverb (so popular in the 80s) and the cheesy FM synth sounds and low grade samples on those awful Roland D50s and Korg M1s sound simply dreadful.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if they went and re-recorded those now they would sound a whole helluva lot better and we'd all find that the songs were (underneath the veneer of 80s gloss) really rather good.

What I do find hard to understand though is the almost complete abandonment of keyboards on more recent Rush albums. Not saying they should go make Permanent Waves II (though I would queue outside my record shop to buy that!!) but it seems a startlingly protracted volte face for a band that once so comfortably embraced technology.

Maybe Alex (so hamstrung - by guitar fashion and his own embrace of it - in the 80s) has laid down a marker. Maybe Geddy just got totally fed-up being a programmer rather than a player. But it seems strange.

I know that they were very enthusiastic about bands like Nine Inch Nails in the mid 90s and that may have bearing on it.

But then that kind of interest in new music is a good thing, isn't it? After all being interested in new wave and alternative rock got us Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures (far and away the two best albums they ever made) didn't it?

Ultimately I think you can go to the well so many times before it dries up - either via old age, carelessness or the world simply moving on. Rush's well began to slow to a tricle with Grace. There are still moments to savour on all the subsequent albums but the purity of a Waves or Pictures is unfortunately gone.

If only someone would rescue Ged's double neck Rickenback from the Hall of Fame and sling him a mini-Moog, maybe we'd be back in business.

Then again, at least they never did make their Tubular Bells/Bat Out of Hell II, III, VI MMVIII etc etc and are vital enough to keep moving and exploring. Good on 'em.

Big RUSH fan here...

The last album that's truly brilliant, and that I would recommend to anyone new to the band without a second thought, is MOVING PICTURES.  Up until this album, they had been continuously progressive, always fresh and (most importantly) interesting, not to mention fun to listen to.  If you ask me, there's not a sour note played on everything up to, and including this release.

Things get complicated with the release of SIGNALS, an album almost universally lauded by fans of the band but drowned in 80s synths... took me a while to warm up to the album, but the songwriting is still there (albeit not as exciting as what came before).  Still good, though, and not what I would constitute as a downfall.

The albums that followed in the 80s are often up and down in terms of quality...  GRACE UNDER PRESSURE is definitely up, one of their most underrated albums and often very creative and clever.  POWER WINDOWS is a bit of a step down, although still very much listenable and still has some great tunes on it.  HOLD YOUR FIRE is up, with another peak in songwriting and creativity... not many agree with me on this, but I find the record pretty satisfying.

No, I think their relative downfall happened in the 90s with PRESTO.  They would certainly release fantastic songs here and there on their albums, and certainly a lot of effort was put into them, but I don't get the same excitement and "Rush experience" that I get with almost all of their earlier work....  it's just not there.  Every so often they'll get close to recapturing that former glory (by my estimation, COUNTERPARTS is the closest they got to achieving that "classic album" status), but often their records fade a bit towards the end...

The FEEDBACK EP that was recently released (not to mention two live albums so close to each other) certainly points to the argument that the band is in a pretty comfortable position... I saw live on that tour and they seemed to have a pretty good and relaxed time on stage (and I did watching them), even if the whole thing kind of lingered of "greatest hits tour..."  you know, the time when a band likes to bask in its reflected glory after having worked hard to get to where they are... and there's certainly nothing wrong with that, Rush have definitely earned it.

But if you ask me, we'll never get another masterpiece from these guys... we'll never get an album that breaks the mold or dares to boldy experiment with album long suites or other prog-isms, and again that's fine... Rush are very good at what they now do, but ask any fan and most will tell you that they hope that the band could just take a gamble and lash out with their next release with a prog epic...  I know most of the fans want it, and I know the band knows that the fans want it judging by how loudly the earlier material was cheered at the concert...  We'll just have to wait and see...

Power Windows is the last great album where everything sounds flamboyant.

the 2 ones who voted Rush-rush are probably Led Zeppelin fans

I felt at the time that Power Windows was the start of their decline, I never really liked that album with the exception of a few songs. But, they picked up considerably after that with Counterparts and Roll the Bones.

The real decline was at 'Test for Echo' IMO. I thought Vapour Trails was better, but neither are very interesting or well produced. I am rarely compelled to play either.

But Reed is right, to be consistently charting, with little public profile in this era of 'less is more' and 'the sh!tter the better' is quite an achievement. They'll always be my favourite band

JrKASperov wrote: Give one listen to Rock in Rio, and you can hear these guys still play with the same spirit and prowess. that said, Rush still pales in comparison to a lot.

I here what you say JrKasperov,being a three-piece they could never be as complex as say classic Genesis (Vocals,guitar,bass,keys and drums all seperate),but they are as sophisticated as any of the Classic Prog Bands.
Outside the global phenomenon that is Pink Floyd,they are by far the most consistently successful band on these forums.Re-reading this thread it is amazing to realise how ignorant people are of Rush's success.Now before people chip in with the "success(charts/popularity) does not equate to quality" mantra,remember that, as I have stated previously,Rush have no public profile whatsoever,so it must be Prog fans and Classic Rock fans who are buying the albums and attending the concerts.The band has consistently achieved Top 10 USA Album Chart (not rock chart or college chart-the mainstream one)placings since 1980.That's 25 years being at the top.Moving Pictures,Permanent Waves and Signals were Multi-Platinum Sellers and attained TOP 3 in the American and UK album charts.
Vapor Trails,despite it's mastering problems is a damn fine album and when the re-mastered version comes out in July,it will be seen as a triumph of modern progressive rock music.

How can a band that are still together have had a downfall?

I could easily say the majority of comments here are wrong about Power Windows and even more wrong about Vapour Trails but that's just my opinion.  I think 'Hold Your Fire' is their weakest effort but how can it start a downfall? If to any listener's taste a band changes and doesn't push the same buttons anymore that's the end of that relationship but how can one person's (or any number of people for that matter) taste determine a band's downfall? - the answer is it can't.

They've had a successful career and made great records that either touch people or don't and that's the lottery with this whole thing regardless how maticulously you try and produce a great record. 

30 years is a long time to sound the same!  -  Not many band's spring to mind that maintain a sound and it smacks of trying to recreate the same thing over and over which often spells trouble anyway.

The only reason I have casted a vote in this poll is because there thankfully was the option "They haven't lost it yet" - although I'd have to personally omitt the word 'yet' from this choice.

How about a celebratory discussion about some of their great music.  Perhaps not just poll's but actual reasons for liking a song?  Or is that too much to ask for?

VLADO wrote: sorry, i made some mistake, I voiced'never had it, instead ,never have lost it'. please, place it right. i personally like the later things much more (from moving pictures on..) because i found it less spectacular, more mature and profound. but they are great as they are. people should change as well as the music they do.

I dedicated my vote to your wishes, I know too little about their post 90 albums to vote myself, that leaves one vote for they never had it, that shouldn't be there.