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BaldFriede 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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 Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:52 |
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And no-one mentioned the late Pierre Moerlen yet? Tsk tsk.
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:05 |
^ We were waiting for you, you can't help but mention him, why should we bother? 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:08 |
Some months ago I would have placed him with Bruford at the top, today my top 2 are:
- Phil Ehart
- Bill Bruford
Iván
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:09 |
 SlipperFink wrote:
I'm glad he did what he did.
In the end:
There are FAR more sophisticated thinkers, far better executors, far
greater innovators and FAR better musicians who have sat behind
drumkits in the history of progrock. The list stretches into the many
dozens off the top of my head. I won't bother much... I'll just give ya the
first 3 that spring to mind from the letter "C" alone. Curt Cress. Phil
Collins. Chris Cutler.
Peart is a REHEARSED drummer who relys on polish and precision in
execution rather than any peristant sort of improvisational approach.
His playing approach is largely based in long arithmetic concepts, and is
therefore very exciting to, and easily understood, by both young
drummers and rock fans who have a little more difficulty grasping what
the more sophisticated players are driving at.
This does much to explain his popularity with those two particular groups
over the years.
However, all is not lost:
Neil inspired a whole generation of young kids stay home from parties
and play the drums.
This really helped the state of the craft as far as a "performance
watermark" for players from a 'uniformity disguised as perfection'
standpoint in rock musics during the late 70's thru the mid 80's.
Of course more than a few prog players saw this 'style as a function of
repetition' mindset as an enormous step in the wrong direction towards
the "seemless magic-trick" and away from "tell me yer story with your
instrument" the latter requiring one to be a much better MUSICIAN than
TECHNICIAN.
Then we get into the kids who were BORN TO PLAY THE INSTRUMENT.
Naturals.
Like the 3 chaps I mentioned at the start of this post.
But that's a whole other can o' wormies.
And is a subject that will result in much fistcuffs and aggro in many
groups of assembled musicians.
SM.
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What a load of patronising nonsense.
Have any of you people actually heard anything by Peart from the last 10 years?
I think,nay I know,NOT!!
Edited by Tony R
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:09 |
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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SlipperFink
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 230
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:50 |
Tony R wrote:
What a load of patronising nonsense.
Have any of you people actually heard anything by Peart from the last
10 years?
I think,nay I know,NOT!! |
LOL.
Ahh yes.... There's that.
It's actually hysterically funny that you can't debate a single point I have
raised.
The end of my missive kind of explains why I wouldn't bother.
Some kids are born to play the instrument in a fashion that will define or
redefine it: And Neil wasn't one of them.
Nothing much has altered the basic conceptual impetus of his playing,
which showed some encouraging growth until about 1984-1985 then just
basically flatlined into "A whole lot more of the same" ... and yes, that
including his mostly horrific journey into the "glancing blow" drummers
lemming run of the late 90's.
In any event.
I am genuinely glad you think Peart is the bee-knees.
His fans think the world of him and that's really the bigger part of the
'short game'. In the long game... He's pretty doomed to be a footnote. A
minor player from a musical and technical standpoint, who garnered very
major acclaim.
Kinda like the Frank Sinatra of drums.
HOHOHO.
Cheers,
SM.
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:56 |
emmmm .... i still like neil pearts drumming
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Gedhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:59 |
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So obvious it need not be stated. But I will
anyway. Neil Peart is the best drummer ever. He is also the
most influential drummer of all time.
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raindance
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 24 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 443
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 19:04 |
I'm with those who think Neil showed great promise in the 70's but somehow didn't fulfill his potential. Whereas players like Palmer and Bozzio continually strived for perfection and improvement, Neil failed to improve and thus showing flaws in his true potential and ability. In the 80's, when Rush took a more direct rock approach his drumming cannot be distinguished from most other 'rock' drummers of that genre. Listen to those 80's Rush albums and you'll hear lots of 'fills' in the songs.
I will agree with Progger though in that he is a great lyricist!
Edited by raindance
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 19:46 |
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The answer is no................one drummer missed out is Brian Davison from the Nice, a brilliant drummer, that even Emerson thought was more technically gifted than Palmer, and i thought he was the best.
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Fragile
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1125
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 20:14 |
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Eh no.
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skarabrae
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 02 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 21
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 20:21 |
I would not say the best ... as that is relative ... but certainly
one of the very best. 
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We who explore, willfully depart absolute reality for a time.
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bartok
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 79
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 20:54 |
Reality check: Outside of a few Germans (and a couple drum snobs) nobody's heard of Curt Cress - I don't think you can even find his records outside of Germany. No one has heard of Chris Cutler. As far as drum history "footnotes" go, these guys didn't even make a footnote. (And I like Curt Cress - but that's the truth) As far as Phil Collins - most people today don't even associate him with the drums - years of crooning Disney tunes and a couple of pop-Genesis hits are pretty much all anyone thinks of now when they think of Phil. (And when was the last time he did any drumming, much less anything drum-worthy?)
Peart, on the other hand, is not only still drumming but he's also at the top of his game - and his live shows are phenomenal. Not an innovator, true, but nevertheless a great musician who chose a worthwhile gig and takes it very seriously. Greatest drummer ever, nah - that's Buddy Rich. Palmer, Collins, Bruford, whoever - they have nothing on him.
Edited by bartok
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SlipperFink
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 230
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 00:06 |
bartok wrote:
Reality check: Outside of a few Germans (and a
couple drum snobs) nobody's heard of Curt Cress - I don't think you can
even find his records outside of Germany. No one has heard of Chris
Cutler. As far as drum history "footnotes" go, these guys didn't even
make a footnote. (And I like Curt Cress - but that's the truth) As far as
Phil Collins - most people today don't even associate him with the drums
- years of crooning Disney tunes and a couple of pop-Genesis hits are
pretty much all anyone thinks of now when they think of Phil. (And when
was the last time he did any drumming, much less anything drum-
worthy?)
Peart, on the other hand, is not only still drumming but he's also at the
top of his game - and his live shows are phenomenal. Not an innovator,
true, but nevertheless a great musician who chose a worthwhile gig
and takes it very seriously. Greatest drummer ever, nah - that's Buddy
Rich. Palmer, Collins, Bruford, whoever - they have nothing on him.
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An interesting and worthy series of points bartok, at least it was before ya
got into pitting him against two VERY superior musicians/thinkers/
innovators.
I'll leave Palmer out of this as he was just so endearing in his youth... and
in a way was the polar opposite of Neil as a player(couldn't keep simple
time in a bag and very sloppy by "80's standards"), yet therefore kinda
fell into the 'time may not be so kind' catagory.
It's funny.
I suppose I may hold a little more faith in the eventuality of the 'cream
rises to the top' as far as long term historic assessment goes than you do.
But this is from the viewpoint of somebody who makes his living working
day in and day out with young drummers in production scenarios, and
therein may lie a admittedly skewed perspective, as the tired maxim
"History is written by the victors" has a fearsome track record indeed. If
this is the case... Poor Collins will take a horrible beating. And that would
be a terrible shame as he was SMASHING player on a bunch of levels, both
in PG era Genesis and, of course, Brand X.
And you should find out who Chris Cutler is.
If you love the instrument. You may enjoy his playing immensely. He is a
very unorthodox, passionate and original player in my estimation.
Nothing like any of the chaps we have been discussing.
As for Buddy Rich...
Well....
We'd have real difficulty even mentioning most of these rock players in
THAT company.
THAT was a self-contained UNIVERSE of rhythm.
Whole other level.
SM.
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 00:12 |
Best ever? You mean like in the entire history of human kind? And like even including prehistoric human beings, and maybe other races on other planets? And like maybe other universes?
You mean like that kind of "ever?"
Just checking... 
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Yanns
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 25 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 999
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 00:13 |
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No.
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Fraja
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 23 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 115
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 01:22 |
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I think he is the best drummer ever but I also like Palmer,Bozzio and Carey!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 04:09 |
SlipperFink wrote:
Tony R wrote:
What a load of patronising nonsense.
Have any of you people actually heard anything by Peart from the last
10 years?
I think,nay I know,NOT!!
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LOL.
Ahh yes.... There's that.
It's actually hysterically funny that you can't debate a single point I have
raised.
The end of my missive kind of explains why I wouldn't bother.
Some kids are born to play the instrument in a fashion that will define or
redefine it: And Neil wasn't one of them.
Nothing much has altered the basic conceptual impetus of his playing,
which showed some encouraging growth until about 1984-1985 then just
basically flatlined into "A whole lot more of the same" ... and yes, that
including his mostly horrific journey into the "glancing blow" drummers
lemming run of the late 90's.
In any event.
I am genuinely glad you think Peart is the bee-knees.
His fans think the world of him and that's really the bigger part of the
'short game'. In the long game... He's pretty doomed to be a footnote. A
minor player from a musical and technical standpoint, who garnered very
major acclaim.
Kinda like the Frank Sinatra of drums.
HOHOHO.
Cheers,
SM.
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Of course you are so clever you forget to mention () that he completely changed his style around 1994 and not as you suggest to any "glancing blow" style. You are just writing off the top of your head.You may be correct in some of the things you write but that would be purely by chance.That is why I am not addressing you "point by point".You have no real points to address,merely (false) assumptions, and align yourself with that sorry group of people for whom what they "think" is what they "know".
HOHOHUM!
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 04:12 |
raindance wrote:
I'm with those who think Neil showed great promise in the 70's but somehow didn't fulfill his potential. Whereas players like Palmer and Bozzio continually strived for perfection and improvement, Neil failed to improve and thus showing flaws in his true potential and ability. In the 80's, when Rush took a more direct rock approach his drumming cannot be distinguished from most other 'rock' drummers of that genre. Listen to those 80's Rush albums and you'll hear lots of 'fills' in the songs. |
Another post having no basis in fact.It is one thing offering an opinion but quite another just "pitching into the dark".Its 20 years since your so-called "direct rock approach" theory.
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 05:20 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Some months ago I would have placed him with Bruford at the top, today my top 2 are:
- Phil Ehart
- Bill Bruford
Iván
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mine are Ehart ... Peart and probably a lesser known called Joe Nevolo from Shadow Gallery ... Phil Ehart wins my award for the most underrated prog drummer, his sense of placement and speed doing his drum fills is outstanding
Edited by s1ipp3ry
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is Neil Peart the best drummer ever ?
