Giving prog metal a fair hearing..

Blacksword wrote: Visitor13 wrote: Blacksword, Fandango: You're missing an important point: Opeth ARE a comedy group, albeit an intelligent one. And I say this as a die hard fan. They consciously play with a metal convention - 'gothic' lyrics, album covers, the elaborate logo, and, finally, growling - all are part of a convention, which they play with in a way which is creative and amusing.There is also the question of vocals fitting the music - try to sing along to the growled parts - it doesn't work.As to whether growling is an art form or not, I don't know, but then again, being the son of an inveterate alcoholic I have trouble considering booze-driven blues/rock vocals art, so what do I know.  Metal is laden with humour, you're quite right. In fact it's the one genre that has the balls and the sense of humour to laugh at itself. I dont doubt there is an underlying humour in Opeth, and just for the record I amenjoying the album. I wont get to grips with that vocal style, but some of the music is excellent.

Well, there you go - just imagine Akerfeldt is indeed the Cookie Monster, and you're set, growling will work for you

Similarly, I heard the singer from Tindersticks compared to Droopy, that just makes Tindersticks that much better in my ears

Visitor13 wrote: Blacksword wrote: Visitor13 wrote: Blacksword, Fandango: You're missing an important point: Opeth ARE a comedy group, albeit an intelligent one. And I say this as a die hard fan. They consciously play with a metal convention - 'gothic' lyrics, album covers, the elaborate logo, and, finally, growling - all are part of a convention, which they play with in a way which is creative and amusing.There is also the question of vocals fitting the music - try to sing along to the growled parts - it doesn't work.As to whether growling is an art form or not, I don't know, but then again, being the son of an inveterate alcoholic I have trouble considering booze-driven blues/rock vocals art, so what do I know.  Metal is laden with humour, you're quite right. In fact it's the one genre that has the balls and the sense of humour to laugh at itself. I dont doubt there is an underlying humour in Opeth, and just for the record I amenjoying the album. I wont get to grips with that vocal style, but some of the music is excellent. Well, there you go - just imagine Akerfeldt is indeed the Cookie Monster, and you're set, growling will work for you Similarly, I heard the singer from Tindersticks compared to Droopy, that just makes Tindersticks that much better in my ears

Absolutely! Droopy rocks!

I was never all that interested in exploring Prog Metal, but a few bands changed my mind. It's still not a sub-genre that I am completely into, but there are some ones that have a wider appeal. The funny thing is, my three favorites are all from Poland. Indukti is a band that I think everyone should hear. It is very original, melodic, and creative. Only one album so far, so they have a lot of room to grow. Osada Vida is also very melodic, but carries a nice punch. I doubt there is anyone that has been around these forums that hasn't heard of Riverside. There is a lot of hype, but they live up to it.

Maybe it's more noticeable in Opeth's music than in traditional death metal because Opeth's music isn't *all that* extreme - they don't sustain fever pitch for very long and there's lots of light and shade, plus plenty of time to get into the groove of a song since their riffs are slow...

micky wrote: Atavachron wrote: Blacksword;  Spastic Ink has a decent vocalist who actually sings (Jason McMaster) but they're an Extreme band and I don't know if you're interested in that...  I second Riverside though I find the music a bit bland, and I assume you've tried Maiden-- though they're ProgRelated here I consider them quite proggie   I listened to Compatible Ink the other night and forgot to tell you. Great album.. and your review hit the nail on the head.

oh thank you Mike, glad you enjoyed the record







Edited by Atavachron - March 01 2008 at 17:37

Avantgardehead wrote: Once more with the "Waaaaaaaah I hate growls!", I see. Well think of it this way, it's vocal distortion. I rarely see people complain about distortion on guitars, and distorted vocals fit perfectly with metal since it's more extreme. Mikael said it best himself, "Extreme music needs more extreme vocals."

The T wrote: Avantgardehead wrote: Once more with the "Waaaaaaaah I hate growls!", I see. Well think of it this way, it's vocal distortion. I rarely see people complain about distortion on guitars, and distorted vocals fit perfectly with metal since it's more extreme. Mikael said it best himself, "Extreme music needs more extreme vocals."   I have never agreed with you so much as with this statement.   growling is not about the singing. They're not auditioning for american idol. it's about the effect, the sound, even the idea (in death, what voice could sound more like the dark throat of hades than low-pitched growling?)

Still, I think that sometimes even in extreme music this "effect" is used inappropriately. It seems to me that some bands are stuck in some kind of stereotype ... they're an extreme band, so their singer *must not* use clean vocal styles at all, or at least very rarely. A blatant example for this is IMO last year's album Between the Buried and Me - Colors. Brilliant album, but their singer just can't let go of the screaming. In this case IMHO less would have been much more.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - March 05 2008 at 03:15

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Visitor13 wrote: Why 'shouldn't' they sing? Just look at all the 'worst singer' polls around here. I just don't think music can be 'dark', because (good) music is pleasant, and darkness is not, simply put. All these adjectives describing music, like 'menacing', 'sombre', 'disturbing', 'dark' and the like belong in inverted commas. Ok ... that doesn't make sense to me at all. Dark topics don't exist?

'Topic' are lyrics and lyrics aren't music. Music has no meaning that can be put into words, therefore it's not a 'topic' (unless you want to argue there's a 'chords to standard English' - dictionary somewhere, or an encyclopedia of 'musical gestures to other cultural symbols' ). Remove all the non-musical references to Fantomas' "Delirium Corda" and rename it to, say "Imaginary Landscape" - or don't give it a title at all - and the music isn't half as 'dark'. 

 

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Artists create music to express something. Topics aren't only reflected in the lyrics, but also in the music ... your example (Delirium Cordia) proves that. In effect you're saying that Delirium Cordia isn't dark (there is no such thing as dark music)

I'll try to be brief - how can you reflect the extreme experience of being operated on without an anaesthetic (this is what Delirium Cordia is supposed to be
 about, right) in ANY kind of music?

Unless you think there is no difference between the two - so which do you pick, the operation or the music

We listen to 'dark' music for pleasure - we avoid dark experiences precisely because they're unpleasant.



Edited by Visitor13 - March 05 2008 at 07:38