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Dick Heath 
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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 Posted: November 09 2005 at 10:05 |
 Proglover wrote:
Bill's SILLY electro drumming???????????...Well I suppose we all have our opinions. |
What was silly about it?
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thefalafelking
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 28 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 130
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 09:27 |
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bruford without any doubt!! The heart of the sunrise, being the evidence of this!!! Like people earlier said on this site, is the essence of what he would achieve later with king crimson, but bruford has always been very good, it's just that he had more space to do his own thing than in yes.
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Drachen Theaker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 376
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 09:09 |
Phil wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes. |
I've just got hold of the 4 CD box set "The Great Deceiver" of live Crimson material from 73/74 and I have to agree with you.
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Definitely! When you listen to Bruford's incredible drumming on Starless, it's miles better than anything he did with Yes. Alan White is not as technically adept but is a great rock drummer, and has more than proved his worth on albums like Relayer.
Edited by Drachen Theaker
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"It's 1973, almost dinnertime and I'm 'aving 'oops!" - Gene Hunt
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Online
Points: 7113
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 08:46 |
The question here is who was the better drummer for Yes, and Alan White has proved himself in that capacity many times over. He established himself on Relayer and GFTO and has maintained his position on the Yes drum stool ever since, through all their ups and downs. Bruford is unquestionably the better drummer, but he was better suited to a band like King Crimson where he had the scope to improvise.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20056
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 07:41 |
richardh wrote:
I think its like comparing apples and oranges.The best way to judge their respective skills is to listen to Rick Wakemans 'Six Wives Of Henry VIII' where they both contribute to different tracks (3 each).White is a powerhouse drummer while Bruford is more subtle.Both are excellent in their own right.That doesnt answer the question but I agree with kirklott that White has helped keep the band together over the years so that makes him more important to Yes. |
You've nailed it there - Bruford is a jazz drummer, White is a rock drummer. I love Bruford's playing - he has a great touch - but I can't imagine Bruford playing Gates of Delirium or Ritual.
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Phil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1881
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 05:26 |
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes. |
I've just got hold of the 4 CD box set "The Great Deceiver" of live Crimson material from 73/74 and I have to agree with you.
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nico
Forum Newbie
Joined: October 10 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 05:14 |
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I prefer Bruford but White is escellent too
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M. B. Zapelini
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 773
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 05:14 |
Bill Bruford is a better drummer in all senses. Alan White is very good, but he does not have that jazzy style that makes Bruford so good. I do agree with Kirklott' opinion: White is more important to Yes's history than Bruford.
By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes.
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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
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Phil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1881
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 05:03 |
kirklott wrote:
This is an ancient question, that has been run into the ground, not by you, but by Yes fans in general.
It depends on what you mean, exactly.
- Bill's drumming on CttE is better than Alan's drumming on Topo.
- Alan's drumming on anything post-Topo is better than Bill's
drumming on ABWH or any of Bill's silly electro drumming. In particular
Alan's drumming on the Keys studio material is fantastic.
- Alan has contributed more to the writing of Yes music.
- Alan appreciates and respects Yes more.
- Alan is more important in the history of Yes because he's been a
stablizing influence, a peace maker, and without Alan, the chances of
Yes lasting past the mid-70s would have been diminished. And while Yes
was at its creative peak in the early 70s, the band has also made a lot
of wonderful music since then.
So overall, I would go against the obvious answer and say Alan is more important to the history of the band. |
I agree. I think that's very well put. 
I'd also say that as a rythmn section, Squire and White struggled on
Tales but really got their act together for Relayer. I think Alan White
helped bring out another dimension to Chris Squire's playing.
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Plastic Man
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 06 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 04:20 |
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by the way, how the hell did alan white lose his british accent?
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cobb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 10 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1149
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 03:25 |
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The man who thinks electronic drumsets are still cool vs a good solid drummer... hmmm
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Plastic Man
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 06 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:52 |
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i believe squire was better with bruford in the group. its like his
bass playing went way downhill when bruford left. im a bruford man
myself.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 30252
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:27 |
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I think its like comparing apples and oranges.The best way to judge their respective skills is to listen to Rick Wakemans 'Six Wives Of Henry VIII' where they both contribute to different tracks (3 each).White is a powerhouse drummer while Bruford is more subtle.Both are excellent in their own right.That doesnt answer the question but I agree with kirklott that White has helped keep the band together over the years so that makes him more important to Yes.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:17 |
Funny, Bruford was only for 4 years Yes' drummer, while Alan White is Yes' drummer for the last 33 years.
That says nothing about their quality though. I really like Bruford a lot, and I like a lot of the albums he played on.
Alan White has meant a lot for Yes though. Indeed as a peace keeper in the band (psychologically) and time keeper (drummer) and he contributed lots of little parts to Yes music.
Mostly I don't notice White's drumming when I listen to the Yes albums he played on. Only on Tormato there are some parts that I'm aware that he's drumming. Still, he plays an important role within Yes.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:11 |
gok22us wrote:
Bill hates Jon Anderson's lyrics and music. He might not hate jon personally, but he doesnt like working with him.
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That's not completey true. He did enjoy working with Anderson again back in 1989 for the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album. He liked Jon's enthousiasm for the music, and he liked the fact that though he couldn't understand anything from his lyrics, he still thought that Anderson was a powerful lyrics writer.
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Genesisprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 14 2005
Location: Estonia
Status: Offline
Points: 188
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:01 |
It`s hard to choose.Yeah,White has done more music with Yes and stuff.
When Bruford was in the band then the band made the best Yes music ever.
Bruford is more skilled drummer. (Has more talent)
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Frank Zappa,Pink Floyd,Yes,Genesis,Rush,King Crimson,Jethro Tull,E.L.P,Rick Wakeman -They have one similarity- I Love Them all !
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1485
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 00:19 |
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Alan White because Bruford had to go to Crimson in '73.
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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gok22us
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 19 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 219
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 00:18 |
Chris Squire and Bill Bruford supposedly have a very rocky relationship, and have come to blows
Bill hates Jon Anderson's lyrics and music. He might not hate jon personally, but he doesnt like working with him.
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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 00:12 |
gok22us wrote:
Bruford makes Yes sound a LOT better. Listen to Close to the Edge from "an evening of yes music plus" and listen to any other version with Alan White on drums, and it's apparent.
Personality wise though, Bruford doesn't seem to mesh well with the other guys. They hate each other too much to work together.
But if they could get along, i'd remove Alan White and stick Bruford in his place without thinking twice about it.
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Ummmm......do they REALLY hate eachother????????
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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: November 09 2005 at 00:11 |
kirklott wrote:
This is an ancient question, that has been run into the ground, not by you, but by Yes fans in general.
It depends on what you mean, exactly.
- Bill's drumming on CttE is better than Alan's drumming on Topo.
- Alan's drumming on anything post-Topo is better than Bill's drumming on ABWH or any of Bill's silly electro drumming. In particular Alan's drumming on the Keys studio material is fantastic.
- Alan has contributed more to the writing of Yes music.
- Alan appreciates and respects Yes more.
- Alan is more important in the history of Yes because he's been a stablizing influence, a peace maker, and without Alan, the chances of Yes lasting past the mid-70s would have been diminished. And while Yes was at its creative peak in the early 70s, the band has also made a lot of wonderful music since then.
So overall, I would go against the obvious answer and say Alan is more important to the history of the band.
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Bill's SILLY electro drumming???????????...Well I suppose we all have our opinions.
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Bill Bruford vs. Alan White for YES
