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The future of PA

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The Hemulen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hemulen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2019 at 03:22
Interesting thread. I can only speak for myself really, but as someone who used to be a regular poster and contributor and then walked away for a long time (though evidently I am starting to poke my head round the door again every so often), it was a combination of factors.
 
Firstly, back then (somewhere in that 06-08 zone I'd guess) the site was going through a bit of an identity crisis and the endless cyclical arguments about how (or indeed if) to categorise certain bands on the site became tedious in the extreme. There was also an element of boredom as my tastes expanded and I wanted to discuss in depth music that falls outside prog's sacred canon. I was also at a period in my life (early twenties) when I had a lot of real life stuff to figure out which left rather less time for the site, especially the work (and my goodness it really does feel like work!) of being a collaborator. It all added up to a sense that it was time for me to move on, so I did. Evidently I was not alone.
 
Now, there's really two separate entities to consider here - the database and the community. The database remains an invaluable resource, though it increasingly feels like a product of its time. As the community pushed more and more to (rightly, IMO) widen the definition of prog to be as inclusive as possible of small-p "progressive" music in addition to capital P "Prog Rock", issues of semantics and gatekeeping arose and became rather poisonous at times. But that was unavoidable when we are contributing to a database built around a pre-Wiki framework - one where an artist's entire discography must, by nature of the site's very infrastructure, be crammed into a single (sometimes awkwardly fabricated) sub-genre. How much simpler would it be to tag artists, and individual albums, in as many genres and subgenres as are deemed to be relevant? But that can't be done. It's too late. So whilst the site contains an extraordinary amount of useful information and often brings to light wonderful obscure artists that might otherwise remain totally overlooked, the system feels rather flawed and dated, and that feeling will only increase with time. Older forum members may remember with fondness the "Gibraltar Encyclopedia of Progressive Rock" - one of the earliest online prog resources, which now appears to have gone the way of the dodo. It was a fine resource, but had its own quirks and flaws and was, in time, usurped by this very site. I think this site is already being usurped, not by one resource, but many - Wikipedia, Discogs, RYM, Reddit, Facebook, Spotify - all of them slowly chipping away at its relevancy.
 
So what of the community? I'm delighted to see that it still exists, though I must admit it is rare when I come a-lurkin' that I find a topic that I feel like responding to. Does anyone really need to know how much I like Gentle Giant at this point? But discussion forums in general are a dying breed - again, a product of a simpler time, before social media seemingly enveloped the entire web. These days I largely confine myself to Reddit where I can at least sometimes have interesting in-depth discussions about niche topics. But what Reddit lacks, and what I miss most about this forum, is that sense of getting to know individuals, even if all they are is an avatar, a username and a set of opinions. Maybe I should lead by example and try to be more active on here again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2019 at 01:49
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

*ahem* I might be a bit of an odd duck here, but I enjoy the chemistry of the PA participants nearly as much as I enjoy the banter about prog, past, present and future!  

Many of my favorite folks are on this thread...Lazland (hello, Steve!), Slartibartfast, Moshkito etc.  Dunno where Presdoug is, if someone mentions "Triumvirate" he'll show up!  

I come to PA as an "old guy" who went to many historic shows, including CTTE (Sept 22, 1972), TAAB (Oct 10, 1972) and so forth.  As a part-time prog musician (bass, guitar, and keyboards, badly) I know how bloody much time and work is involved in writing, creating, arranging, recording and performing this music, and it can be exhausting!!  

Therefore, I find the community of PA as much fun as the talk of music....I "listen" to TFTO frequently, not so much for enjoyment, as to study its composition and deeply analyze what Yes were doing (Squire imitates an orchestra tympani by using a Guild fretless bass & plectrum, and I "borrowed" that technique in my playing!)

In summation, I learn from all of you, and it is a pleasure to participate!!  Who knows how long PA will survive, it really doesn't matter.  We are here today, so let us embrace the experience.  Cheers, Charles

This guy, right here! Clap

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2019 at 21:41
^ Agreed   Clap


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2019 at 19:21
^
Yep, good post. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2019 at 15:49
*ahem* I might be a bit of an odd duck here, but I enjoy the chemistry of the PA participants nearly as much as I enjoy the banter about prog, past, present and future!  

Many of my favorite folks are on this thread...Lazland (hello, Steve!), Slartibartfast, Moshkito etc.  Dunno where Presdoug is, if someone mentions "Triumvirate" he'll show up!  

I come to PA as an "old guy" who went to many historic shows, including CTTE (Sept 22, 1972), TAAB (Oct 10, 1972) and so forth.  As a part-time prog musician (bass, guitar, and keyboards, badly) I know how bloody much time and work is involved in writing, creating, arranging, recording and performing this music, and it can be exhausting!!  

Therefore, I find the community of PA as much fun as the talk of music....I "listen" to TFTO frequently, not so much for enjoyment, as to study its composition and deeply analyze what Yes were doing (Squire imitates an orchestra tympani by using a Guild fretless bass & plectrum, and I "borrowed" that technique in my playing!)

In summation, I learn from all of you, and it is a pleasure to participate!!  Who knows how long PA will survive, it really doesn't matter.  We are here today, so let us embrace the experience.  Cheers, Charles


Edited by cstack3 - August 22 2019 at 20:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2019 at 15:19
 “He who controls the pastcontrols the future; and he who controls the present, controls the past.” George Orwell.

“He who controls the spice controls the universe.”― Frank Herbert

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote admireArt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2019 at 14:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2019 at 09:39
Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

I love classical music, and especially the rich history (including spies!) of lute, vihuela, and classical guitar.  


I'm not as keen on some of the more recent developments of the instrument.



Edited by Jaketejas - August 05 2019 at 09:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2019 at 09:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2019 at 08:47
Originally posted by sukmytoe sukmytoe wrote:

Could the database not be backed up somehow? A Phoenix rises from ashes should that be needed. I have had a love hate relationship with the site for years but if it were simply lost I think that all of us would lose something that over the years has been a valuable source of information and entertainment - it would be a sad day.
 
I would be extremely surprised (and worried) if there was no backup policy in place for the PA database.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sukmytoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2019 at 08:32
Could the database not be backed up somehow? A Phoenix rises from ashes should that be needed. I have had a love hate relationship with the site for years but if it were simply lost I think that all of us would lose something that over the years has been a valuable source of information and entertainment - it would be a sad day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2019 at 20:40
I love classical music, and especially the rich history (including spies!) of lute, vihuela, and classical guitar.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2019 at 09:38
There is so much music out there to be discovered. I have tried out many modern recommendations, but mostly they are not interesting for me. They might have been interesting had they been published in the late 60s or early 70s, but from new releases I expect something more than just "samo, samo". There just are hardly any drastically new developments. The Red Masque, who are extremely underappreciated on this site, are one of the few bands who explore new territories, which is probably why they are underappreciated because most people are not really keen to hear something very different. And yes, this means YOU!

Jean and I have taken to exploring the 60s and 70s for really obscure bands (and not just prog ones). The variety of rock music was just so big back then, especially in the 60s. And of course our interest has shifted to classical music, and there are so many discoveries to be made there.


Edited by BaldFriede - August 04 2019 at 09:38


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2019 at 09:19
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Serious question: what are this site's hosting and domain costs? Is this something that if it came down to it, the community could take over or have a donation based database, etc, so it's not susceptible to one person just clocking out and the site tanking....?

THe only true answer would be to set up an alternative website which would be an undertaking of manumental proporations. Given that Rate Your Music covers all aspects of music, it seems less likely that a niche site could be successfully replicated unless vast amounts of $$$ are involved.

I don't see this site going anywhere soon. Yeah, perhaps the numbers are down but it still remains a vital resource as a database. If you search  for any given prog band on any given search engine then PA almost always comes up near the top of the list.

Logic dictates that despite the utter neglect that this site is at least profitable and at the most a veritable goldmine.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2019 at 07:38
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Serious question: what are this site's hosting and domain costs? Is this something that if it came down to it, the community could take over or have a donation based database, etc, so it's not susceptible to one person just clocking out and the site tanking....?

The information about the website and its registration is public record ... however, sometimes the information is hidden behind a fake company, although to my knowledge, fake addresses are not legal on those things but it is done all the time with addresses in Patagonia in Venus!
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Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2019 at 02:40
Serious question: what are this site's hosting and domain costs? Is this something that if it came down to it, the community could take over or have a donation based database, etc, so it's not susceptible to one person just clocking out and the site tanking....?

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2dogs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2019 at 22:59
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Losing the database is unthinkable. This is something I can't contemplate but makes you wonder what the point of the internet is if that can happen. So many people have invested so much and I'm not talking about my two bit reviews. 
Just a thought but would anyone her be up for funding it? I would pay a subscription if that is what it takes. Not sure now much but something equivalent to say Netflix would be worth it imo.


This is the nature of the internet and our society where every web site has its owner and needs continuous funding to remain in existence. It’s an incredibly ambitious thing to do but the Internet Archive attempts to preserve this information, including its changes through time. For example:

Put “Prog Archives” in the “Wayback Machine” search field and select www.progarchives.com.

Click 2006.

Click the blue Mar 28 then the blue snapshot time.

Click the PA Electronic Prog link.

Click the Tangerine Dream link under the Phaedra cover.

Scroll down and you’ll see the discography ends in 2006.

Most likely you’d start from the most recent snapshot but in the event a load of stuff had been deleted you might want to go back in time. Or look at the database at a time when it only contained real prog artists .
"There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2019 at 10:22
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


well.. seems you missed all the good ones Torman Maxt and S.D. hahah.  i do remember.. as you were not exactly an angel (though few of those really existed in the early wild west days of the site).. but as the conflicts became more ugly, more personal, and thus more bloody but were largely behind the scenes...you had pretty much checked out of the site by then.
 


Yup, I was in the thick of thing LOL Evil Smile and bombing the trenches ahead of mePig... But being in a Censoredtrench, you obviously don't have a total picture of the battlefield Nuke, so some of them battles flew over my head - luckily so, because or else whatever private & professional life I had managed to save upOuch would'e gone down te drain, if I'd have jumped in on other fights.


We can laugh about 10 years later and see it as fun times, but back then, it was pretty serious sh*t going down, and you're right, after a while, I did check out Hotel Progifornia to keep my sanity +/- sane Wacko, but since "you can never leave" Shocked, I returned a bit after my car crash in a highway pile-up. I take things cooler nowadays. Ying Yang




Edited by Sean Trane - August 03 2019 at 10:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard the Duck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2019 at 08:54
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

It seems we all agree that the PA forums are close to the edge, but not right away.


Leaving all the topics far from far behind
We relieve the tension only to find out the webmaster's name
MacGyver can do a super guitar solo with a broom and an elastic band. Can you do better?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2019 at 08:33
Look at the bright side: you still have time to post another Yes vs. Genesis poll.
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