Has The Archives lost it's way?

Hi,

I think the perception of that statement is incorrect. When you look at the history of music, painting and literature, it is VERY EASY to list "ground breaking" and "progressive" ... which, in the end, in my PERCEPTION, only means that we are AFRAID of changes and new things and works. PERIOD. Thus, only a handful is found in a lifetime for many of us.

We had great examples. Miles pretty much fingered his feelings about the state of the music, and many other jazz folks did the same, which we REFUSE to talk about. Picasso, started his reformation in the 1930's and later, he showed us that something different could be done ... but NO ONE, NO ONE, was ever going to sit back and deny the "truth" in something like his Guernica painting, when he pretty much showed us what a child could see outside his own window in Spain at the time. Again, you can't deny the "truth" which makes the art more valuable and important ... and this is one of the bigger points that this discussion is avoiding.

In theater, the 50's brought us the strength of the voice, when theater was kinda mired in the star syndrome that had been its forte and sales for 100 years! And it exploded in England, as it did in America with the Actor's Studio ... and finally we heard ... STELLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAA! (which most of you probably don't know what it is or where from!) ... and then into the 60's we started getting "experiments" that were nuts, but worked out. You got to see a Midsummer Night's Dream in a children playground. Then you got to see a play within a play in an asylum, with them, and even the filthy rich behind bars separating them all from the audience! 

Rock music had a great start, and Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, and a few others standing up and giving us chops and visuals that were memorable. We, here, consider ourselves "progressive" but we can't even note the ones that made it so! We can certainly name "songs", but out of context most of them die off quickly.

I keep looking for music all the time. And, honestly, not much of it is "ground-breaking" or "progressive", at least within the artistic concept and idea we like to discuss, which a lot of today's fans don't give a poop about because it interferes with their top ten songs, and destroys their idea.

richardh wrote: ... Progressive rock reached its zenith a long long time ago. That's painfully obvious. We can discuss music and enjoy music that is not commercially driven and beyond that its just about taste and not about how progressive it is , because no one knows what that is. certainly not a tiny section of the population of the world and i guess mostly jaded middle aged white men deciding what's what.

I don't think so. I doubt we will find something new and "ground-breaking" that uses exactly the same process as all music does these days. "Progressive" got its daddy when FM radio made room for the long cuts, and, something even more important THAT WE CAN NOT RELATE TO ... it was in STEREO, and all radio at the time was NOT. That in itself, made for a "ground-breaking" experience, and something that our ears had never heard unless we were sensitive enough to go see an orchestra instead of just a rock band ... 

My worst example, is the majority of "progressive" shows over the Internet. They are all FORMATS and stuck in small cuts and some with the idea that knowing about the "song" is important. We relate to each piece very differently, and the information, for the most part in my experience, is worthless. Even Guy Guden used to do a lot more long cuts and complete albums, and these days, as much as I love his show after 48 years (50 in his mind with the "idea" otherwise Jan 24th 1974 or 27th ... can't remember!), it has become a far out trip but it has too many "songs" for me. The trip now, is all over the place and in my book, rather confused, instead of as focused as it was before, with lively comedy bits. AGAIN, it was a NEW thing and STYLE, that no one had in those days! AND, it worked, or his show would not be loved as long as it has.

You have to have a perspective on what the "ground-breaking" and "progressive" really is, and this is where my stand is at all times ... something that many folks here don't like. Heck, I didn't even mention film in this mode, which was/is at least 15 years ahead of rock music and some 5 to 10 years ahead of jazz and Miles.

You can see this a lot better in the arts ... you are NOT going to see it in rock music that is counted out as just songs, and nothing else ... change your perspective, Guy used to say ... check the mirror if you need to (actors do that and Guy was outstanding on the stage) ... but rock songs, and numbers, disdain the reality and would rather live by the imagined fame of the numbers!

I always say .. where do you stand?