Chicks and Prog

Piglets like prog more than baby chickens in my observation

Girls are socialized not to treat popular music, as well many other things, as something serious with any sort of history or complexity, and receive negative feedback if they go against these expectations.   It's a bit difficult to evaluate the sort of explanations people are offering about women's and men's brains when girls and boys are given different social cues...this is not a controlled experiment!

The boys I knew in high school who listed "I'm into music" among the things they were proud of would not accept that I knew anything about the subject.  We're 20 now, and they're still like this, getting all defensive, trying to prove they know more, subtly belittling my opinions, and seizing upon and making fun of the parts of my somewhat all-over-the-place collection that they don't like.  They don't do this to their male friends who are into music, not in the same way.  For whatever reason, I mostly have this problem with the men I know who have more of a 1960s/1970s period orientation to their taste in music--the sort who might be into some classic prog bands.

So next time you get frustrated that none of the women you know are into your music...well, it might be in part because we've been told time and time again that we shouldn't be.  So the best thing you can do to encourage a change is to act like it's completely normal and good for women to like prog...normal for anyone to like and be curious about anything and everything, really.  Open-mindedness is just a good thing in general.

jammun wrote: When I was in college, my roommate and I (both heavily into ELP/Yes -- this was 1972), arranged to meet a couple of lovely coeds at their apartment and listen to music, with expectations of a GREAT evening nudge nudge.  So what did we choose as the album to drive them into sexual frenzy?  Um, for some reason that listening to a recording of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring was in order.  Result:  Elvis Costello has a nice song call 'No Action'.  The title of that song perfectly describes the rest of our evening.

Maybe you could have tried "Counting out Time" by Genesis

Back in the glory days (very early 70s) , girls (and hot ones too) introduced me to ITCOTCK , Renaissance,  GG, Yes, Zappa and , of course, who didn't lose their virginity listening to Echoes? I even saw Soft Machine with my first love and she was groovin to it, so... In fact, it has more to do with the current social trends because I know tons of guys who HATE any kind of prog, labelling it "pompous, elitist, overblown" . Truth is most progheads are frustrated musicians who really get off on a chord change or a technical solo. Most tend to be male, because we are a "nerdier" lot! Somehow a female nerd is hard to picture. I wish I could find a lady progster, good god would we have fun!!!!!!!

I grew up with prog, so I do like it. my parents were hippies who were into anything that sounded great when they were "flying high", which means all kinds of prog, especially psychedelic and early Kraut, but also Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple. which is probably why I don't have any problems seeing both Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple as prog; they were just as much a part of my childhood as Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator, Amon Düül 2 or Guru Guru

I am one of the resident "chicks who love prog". My first prog album was bought at the age of 11. Though I am very well aware of the biological differences between men and women, I tend to resent any kind of generalisation relating to those differences - especially as regards brain size and such.

As to the matter of emotion vs intellectualism, I have never felt that prog was devoid of emotion, or that mainstream love songs were full of it. On the contrary, I find the latter's sentimentalism quite fake, while something like "Epitaph" or "Starless" really touches a chord within me. I may be an exception, but I am not so sure... It's just that I have always tended to think with my own brain (smaller or otherwise), instead of letting myself be brainwashed by what society thinks a woman should be like.

Bellringer wrote: We tried to figure this out in another thread (which I think I started), but IMHO, in general, women tend to admire emotion in the art they like before they admire any intellectualism.  In other words, women tend to like the songs that are simpler, that you can sing, that are more traditionally structured, etc. etc.  Prog is almost completely intellectual-- there ARE melodies and structured tunes in prog, but you usually have to wade through an album's worth of concept to find them.  This isn't to say we women aren't intellectual, but we do, as a gender, tend to find anything that's almost solely intellectual boring.  The complex musical ideas of prog are very left-brained and most of us gals are predominantly right-brained.   Since I ended my working day today with Soft Machine's Fourth, what does that make me, I wonder?

Emotion and intellectualism aren't in opposition though.  Many intellectuals have very strong feelings and because they like to think and ask questions, they can be very "in tune" with emotions...their own feelings.  I don't see how women could inherently prefer short simple songs, I think there's a social explanation.  Possibly controversial, but in many cases, women (especially one's perceived as "attractive") control the social groups and institutions they are involved in (they don't necessarily have to most power, but they carry a certain influence because of their...social weight with men).  I think that men who feel they don't belong or "fit in" in these social groups, turn to outlets or escapes to get away from the  groups they dislike or feel ostracized from.  Maybe they turn to communities that accept them for it's own sake or maybe they have a lot of time to themselves and explore their mind's creativity...thus leading them to the worlds of music, literature, science...and end up concentrated in places with likeminded people and of course enjoy the art in itself as well.

I'm still waiting for Rick Wakeman to come out with a DVD of The Myths and Legends of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, ON ICE.  Perfect for a Friday evening with the woman of your choice.  By the time you're done saying the title, she'll be long gone.

SFranke wrote: Women's brains are on average smaller than men's. But to answer your question, I have no idea.

That's because brain size is proportional to overall bodyweight! 

But women also attach more emotional retrival tags to their memories....maybe that's why they'll always associate prog with nerds, because they'll always remember the nerd who tried to explain the plot behind Tarkus in high school.

Oh wait, that nerd was me...

When I was in college, my roommate and I (both heavily into ELP/Yes -- this was 1972), arranged to meet a couple of lovely coeds at their apartment and listen to music, with expectations of a GREAT evening nudge nudge.  So what did we choose as the album to drive them into sexual frenzy?  Um, for some reason that listening to a recording of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring was in order. 

Result:  Elvis Costello has a nice song call 'No Action'.  The title of that song perfectly describes the rest of our evening.

Women's brains are on average smaller than men's.

But to answer your question, I have no idea.