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Has The Archives lost it's way?
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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There's a difference between business stuff and a music website, on which people don't want to feel like they can't access/understand something, because it's in a language they can't speak for example and machine translators can't really do a good job at translating that body of text (Finnish and Basque are super tricky for machine translation for instance). There should be a way to unify the music lovers from all around the world, and one of those things is to have everything in a universal language that is English.
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I love that RYM allows multiple languages

It’s no big deal to use google translate these days

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote This English-only rule prevents non-English speakers/writers from making valuable contributions to the site and, sorry to say, has an air of colonialism in it.

It's an international language and it's easy to learn by non-English speakers. The colonialism thing is a lame excuse IMO. Why make a website a trash can of shіt in all languages of the world if we can have a clean, tidy accessible international English-languaged website? With easier communication and moderation?

Sorry, I guess I was wrong about that idea. Maybe it's just me? I work with multilingual databases in my day job and I'm just used to seeing things in many languages in my line of work (which is mostly messing around with library metadata for database ingestion).
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Quote This English-only rule prevents non-English speakers/writers from making valuable contributions to the site and, sorry to say, has an air of colonialism in it.

It's an international language and it's easy to learn by non-English speakers. The colonialism thing is a lame excuse IMO. Why make a website a trash can of shіt in all languages of the world if we can have a clean, tidy accessible international English-languaged website? With easier communication and moderation?


Edited by Hrychu - September 13 2023 at 11:21
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Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

I think The Doors were one of the first prog-rock bands. People talk about the music, lyrics, so I'll add rhythm.... 

Between 1967-1971,
Break on Through (Bossanova)
Light My Fire (Latin)
Moonlight Drive (Tango)
Cars Hiss By My Window (Blues)
Love Her Madly (Rock)
Wintertime Love (Jazz)
Roadhouse Blues (Shuffle)
Strange Days (Tribal)
The WASP (Military cadence and jazz)
Spanish Caravan (consistent pounding 2nd verse)


Aretha Franklin and a gazillion pop and jazz artists boasted the same diversity of genres which is admirable but doesn't make them progressive rock.

I'm OK with The Doors being here simply for The Soft Parade alone otherwise they were just above average to OMG phenomenal psychedelic rock.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

It's sad how Deep Purple and Black Sabbath are belittled sometimes, when both bands did some groundbreaking music in their hey day, and in DP's case, early in their career (the Rod Evans era). Both bands quite influential on genres to come, I don't see how them being on PA is controversial. Confused

My dear chap, I was not belittling them. I love both, as any even cursory glance at my written work will attest. They are simply not progressive rock. Art rock at times, yes, and with tracks which were very influenced by and on progressive rock. I was merely stating why they were included, and that was to drive traffic. I didn’t say it was wrong Wink

exactly. In reverse I've sometimes heard ELP described as 'Heavy Metal' (listening to say PAAE this is not a wildly off view) but would you expect them to be anywhere near a site dedicated to Metal or Heavy rock. We can respect bands at a distance perhaps. That said I did push for the inclusion of Maiden here and genuinely thought they had a strong case but plenty pushed back against that. Smile
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more
It is an advantage cuz the language is standarized. That way, it's less distracting and more accessible to an average reader. :)

But if you're aiming at international readership, multiple language usage is betterTongueWink

The only problem I see is that  you need someone in your staff fluent in that language to monitor if the review meets the requirements/guidelines.

I certainly would support "internationalizing" the reviews policy on this site. With better online translators (and I know these are far from perfect), I think many of us one-language speakers (myself included) can get by better than we used to. I often use them to translate reviews on RYM which I have found very helpful. This English-only rule prevents non-English speakers/writers from making valuable contributions to the site and, sorry to say, has an air of colonialism in it.

I agree that monitoring reviews so they meet content standards could be an issue. We do have a nice group of folks on the forums that are from many parts of the world and appear to cover a diverse range of languages. Surely we could ask for their help? The other concern I have is this site's ongoing technological issues. I'm not convinced that it can reliably handle the entire Unicode set of characters, most notably with recent troubles with characters containing diacritics.


Edited by progaardvark - September 13 2023 at 09:13
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I think The Doors were one of the first prog-rock bands. People talk about the music, lyrics, so I'll add rhythm.... 

Between 1967-1971,
Break on Through (Bossanova)
Light My Fire (Latin)
Moonlight Drive (Tango)
Cars Hiss By My Window (Blues)
Love Her Madly (Rock)
Wintertime Love (Jazz)
Roadhouse Blues (Shuffle)
Strange Days (Tribal)
The WASP (Military cadence and jazz)
Spanish Caravan (consistent pounding 2nd verse)


Edited by MortSahlFan - September 13 2023 at 09:04
https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
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The Anders View Drop Down
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^Oops, answered to the wrong post.
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The Anders View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

If you need to keep growing and expanding, maybe merge Jazz Music Archives into this site and just label it, The Music Archives. 

However to do it or whatever to do, I think it's a very important issue to think about in order to do it in a reasonnable way.


I'm still undecided about what to think of the Concerto tbh., but it was bold of them to try it for sure.
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15820 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2023 at 07:24
Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

If you need to keep growing and expanding, maybe merge Jazz Music Archives into this site and just label it, The Music Archives. 

However to do it or whatever to do, I think it's a very important issue to think about in order to do it in a reasonnable way.
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

There is nothing to belittle about Deep Purple as far as I am concerned. They were one of the most original rock bands of their time Smile
Jon Lord's Concerto for Group and Orchestra still remains one of my all-time favourite Deep Purple albums. It's also one of the first Symphonic Prog albums. Thumbs Up
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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

There is nothing to belittle about Deep Purple as far as I am concerned. They were one of the most original rock bands of their time Smile

Purple is in PA because of their first four albums (including that catastrophic concerto)

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more
It is an advantage cuz the language is standarized. That way, it's less distracting and more accessible to an average reader. :)

But if you're aiming at international readership, multiple language usage is betterTongueWink

The only problem I see is that  you need someone in your staff fluent in that language to monitor if the review meets the requirements/guidelines.


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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more
It is an advantage cuz the language is standarized. That way, it's less distracting and more accessible to an average reader. :)

Hi,

It's an even bigger "advantage" when it comes to the cultural basis of the language ... a perfect example is the same phrase is stated differently in each language, and the inflections, is like theater ... it seems so different and yet saying the same thing!

The "standardized" thing, is an invented IDEAL for commercial purposes. It has very little to do with the work and the art itself ... but it has the advantage of the wider/larger audience being able to buy it and "understand it". And this might be something that the smaller countries and cultures can take advantage of and gain from a lot ... and it shows in music (though not as visible in other arts!!!), although I'm not sure PA has something like 150 different soccer countries or something like it! Film, classical music, theater and literature are not "gaining" from this as much as rock music has ... from this commercial advantage.

The "standardization" is not really necessary. My preference, these days, is not to hear a foreign band sing in English (for example) but to hear them in the beauty, lyricism, and nuances of their own language. In a "standardization", this gets completely lost ... and our ideas that we miss the what the whole thing is about is thought to be lost ... and it isn't ... one could say we're being lazy ... but be it any of the romance languages, not a single one of them have ever sounded weird to my ear, and then you can add a lot of the Eastern Europeans ... and African ... Latin American ... and the individual touches are amazing ... and totally special. It is weird to me that we can not "enjoy" that ... and think that our own "god" has to speak English ... and that is going to end up in a holy war and total destruction! Jesus of Nazareth and Moses ... did not speak English! And no one has any idea of what they might have sounded like in their own idiom! 

But we think that in English is the perfect this or that ... golly damn that Charlton Heston ... he ruined us!


Edited by moshkito - September 13 2023 at 04:36
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There is nothing to belittle about Deep Purple as far as I am concerned. They were one of the most original rock bands of their time Smile
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Points: 6007 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2023 at 03:59
Quote Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more
It is an advantage cuz the language is standarized. That way, it's less distracting and more accessible to an average reader. :)
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I've been wondering about the monetary situation - back in the 2000s I think I saw a lot of google banner ads. The yellow box at the top of the page still mentions them. But today they're all gone, at least I don't see any ads except for when you use the integrated google search. Is it mostly donations these days, or am I just not seeing the ads from Sweden?
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Just to note:

Prog Archives was officially launched in September, 2002. The earliest snapshot of the website is from July, 26 2002 at waybackmachine. https://web.archive.org/web/20020726140505/http://www.progarchives.com/

Prog Archives existed before M@X came onboard and eventually acquired it.

I can't remember who originally set it up, but it was Prog fans I believe, but I believe that ProgLucky (Rony) (also a Prog fan) acquired the site from the original owners and then brought on M@X (who designs and works on websites) who later bought the site.  In 2003 there is a message that ProgArchives is changing management.


By the way, while there earlier suggestion threads included in Suggest new Bands for the Doors, here was the latest before and after addition.  https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31414
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

It's sad how Deep Purple and Black Sabbath are belittled sometimes, when both bands did some groundbreaking music in their hey day, and in DP's case, early in their career (the Rod Evans era). Both bands quite influential on genres to come, I don't see how them being on PA is controversial. Confused

My dear chap, I was not belittling them. I love both, as any even cursory glance at my written work will attest. They are simply not progressive rock. Art rock at times, yes, and with tracks which were very influenced by and on progressive rock. I was merely stating why they were included, and that was to drive traffic. I didn’t say it was wrong Wink

Like someone said above - proto-prog and prog-related are not prog subgenres or music genres. 

Deep Purple are classified under proto-prog for the early albums, Jon Lord's contribution alone makes DP worthy to be included here. 

Black Sabbath is on PA under prog-related. This should not upset anyone. 

I also doubt they were added to PA to drive traffic. 
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^ Generating traffic is what the website is about, at the core. Smile
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