More significant to Prog, Magma or Kansas?

It’s Magma for me

Boojieboy wrote: If one listens to tracks like "Magnum Opus", "Icarus - Borne on Wings of Steel", "The Pinnacle", and "Song For America", as just a few examples, it's impossible not confirm Kansas as being prog. But too many want to get political, and reject them because they come from the US. And/or, only stop with one or two popular songs, and look no further, and say "They're definitely a pop group".

But too many want to get political, and reject them because they come from the US. And/or, only stop with one or two popular songs, and look no further, and say "They're definitely a pop group".


Edited by Boojieboy - February 06 2024 at 16:44

someone_else wrote: Depends on which side of the Atlantic one lives, methinks.

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: Saperlipopette! wrote: Seriously? Long before I bought my first jazz-album or had developed an interest for jazz - it took a few seconds of hearing Kenny G. to know that wasn’t real deal. Even Kenny G. fans will know that Miles Davis is more respected, a legend and an innovator. My dad knows that, although he's never listened to a jazz album in his life. The average man in the street wouldn't even be able to tell you it was jazz, he would only be able to tell you he didn't like any of it.

Well maybe for Kenny G. as it borders on not being actual jazz, but not able to recognize Miles Davis as jazz? I know I'm not representative for the whole world, but I'm certain I don't know anyone who doesn't recognize the sound of "classic jazz". Is the average listener (which is the example and not man on the street) someone who has no musical experience at all? If exposed to all these artists, I think most would instantly hear that one of one wouldn't fit in with the others and take it from there.  

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: Saperlipopette! wrote: Seriously? Long before I bought my first jazz-album or had developed an interest for jazz - it took a few seconds of hearing Kenny G. to know that wasn’t real deal. Even Kenny G. fans will know that Miles Davis is more respected, a legend and an innovator. My dad knows that, although he's never listened to a jazz album in his life. The average man in the street wouldn't even be able to tell you it was jazz, he would only be able to tell you he didn't like any of it.

Yep.

Saperlipopette! wrote: Big Sky wrote: Saperlipopette! wrote: Big Sky wrote: As for the average listener not associating Kansas or bands like that as Prog that's hardly convincing. Most listeners don't get into the weeds like the members here on PA. I could put on Miles Davis's Kind of Blue, Dave Brubeck's Take Five, John Coltrane's Giant Steps or Kenny G's Breathless and the average listener will identify those albums as just Jazz and could not tell you what subgenre they belong to. Yep it wasn't the hardest thing to pick apart. But I'm still right. If you played those albums or tracks by Brubeck, Miles, and Coltrane first - then Kenny G. - and asked which one of these aren't significant to the history of jazz - I'll bet the answer would be the latter artist every time. Like Kansas compared to Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, ELP... Kenny G. doesn't belong in the company of legendary artists that shaped what we come to know as jazz. The average listener wouldn't be able to tell you which subgenre, but would hear the difference nevertheless. No you are wrong and I'm right, since you seem so sure of yourself. The average listener as to someone who doesn't really listen to jazz would not know which one is more significant to the history of jazz. Kenny G's album actually went Diamond. Now, someone with a passing interest in Jazz would say Brubeck, Davis and Coltrane are much more significant. The average listener of music, I would say no. In fact the average music listener's only Jazz album might be a Kenny G album. You don't have to like it. I don't really like it, but that's the way it is. Seriously? Long before I bought my first jazz-album or had developed an interest for jazz - it took a few seconds of hearing Kenny G. to know that wasn’t real deal. Even Kenny G. fans will know that Miles Davis is more respected, a legend and an innovator. My dad knows that, although he's never listened to a jazz album in his life.

You and your Dad are two people. That statistically means nothing. To many, Kenny G is the real deal. If not, why did so many people buy his albums? Smooth Jazz sells. I know many Jazz purists do not care for smooth Jazz. Of course, there were some hardcore Jazz purists who did not care for Cool Jazz, which is generally a respected genre of Jazz.

If I remember correctly, Kenny G is the greatest selling Jazz artist. Not a fan of his music and generally don't care for Smooth Jazz. But, it is a very popular genre of Jazz.

[QUOTE=moshkito] Hi,[/QUOTand

Moshkito,

Just because a song is "challenging" from a listening point of view for the average listener and "interesting" for those who like music that is more abstract using more dissonance, odd meters, etc doesn't necessarily make it better (Pat Metheny's Zero Tolerance for Silence as an example. It's not good). Vice versa is true too.

Also, at least in the 70s, it's not like Kansas was playing straight ahead pop music. Carry on Wayward Son is liked by millions of people who have diverse musical interests because it's a good song. It's not like it's a straight forward pop song. Rick Beato has a great breakdown of Carry on Wayward Son on " What Makes This Song Great."

Fairly simple songs can be great songs too. In the movie Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Ego when taking to his son Quill states Looking Glass' Brandy ( You're A Fine Girl) might be Earth's greatest composition. Quill agreed. I'm inclined to agree too.

Edited by Big Sky - February 04 2024 at 10:58

Hi,